A Question For Army Types or "War Nerds" for a Battlemech Game

[BigDon]

For some up coming Megamek engagements I would like to know, in a modern army, what would reasonable security be for 6 major artillery pieces. In an area where you don't have air superiorty AND its not out of the question for a land raid.

I realized that not only do I don't know, its not that easy to find. I want to avoid making it unrealistically defended. But I don't want to make it unrealistically "fair" either. The guys on the attack are looking forward to the challenge.

They get a full cluster of Clan mechs to attack with. (That's 25 enemy mechs) They are going to come down as a group, three to five map boards away.

I say I'm going to eat their lunch and pop their sacks. Against the AI I've destroyed whole clusters of Clan mechs with just four (double gun) pieces and five mechs as an overwatch. Without loss. I've got artillery down. They don't have to know that though.

Newbies get thrown by the two turn delay between firing and impact. I've played enough to know the movements of the enemy mechs. That and I can read even randomly generated terrain and accurately guess were the logical milling points are. Funny what playing a game for 25 years can do for you.

I had to get that good with artillery as it was the only thing that allows Inner Sphere mechs to compete against the longer ranged, better designed and harder hitting Clan mechs.

I'll only play Clan units as an opposing force, never a player character. (Victories against the AI don't count for advancement purposes in my gaming group) They are motherless vat jobs who use military might to impose bondage on other humans. What's not to dislike?

Sure they have much better battle mechs and that pseudo-shamanistic voodoo bullsugar thing going, but that's laughable. Trying to establish a "back to nature" tradition among folks who've actually abolished motherhood is to me like trying to develope a branch of physics that doesn't include math. Probably a lame attempt at keeping them from becoming the Borg. (Even if the Clans of Karensky predate the Borg by some 15 years, the concept is there.)

The platoons of infantry are standardized to 25 men.

Field guns and mortor teams are available as are light and heavy armor, and anti-air vehicles.

Air assets include attack helos, but they die too fast in mech combat, ie as soon as they get in range. I only use them for spotting, not engaging battle mechs. I just fly them up high enough over the artillery that they can see over most of the terrain. Maybe long range anti-mech sniping if you have one with a gauss rifle. Hovercraft are only a little more survivable.

Thanks

BD

PS. One last thing. It's been my opinion for a long time now that battle mechs as written, are about an order of magnitude too small for all the political clout that's been given to them. A large gnarly assault mech is still only 100 tons. I'm just a brain damaged furniture mover and I sure I could come up with an IED that could disable a 100 ton vehicle. Especially if the alternative was slavery for my wife and kids. (I'm presuming I'm dead before that happens.)

[Moose]

For some up coming Megamek engagements I would like to know, in a modern army, what would reasonable security be for 6 major artillery pieces. In an area where you don't have air superiorty AND its not out of the question for a land raid.

Not having air superiority is bad. Establishing it is a priority. Wars aren't won from the air, but they are frequently lost by not having it.

Air strike power isn't so much the issue as the scouting capability. Your priority in terms of protecting the artillery is in denying your opfor the ability to know where you are.

What that means, though, is that you need to move your artillery after every shot (preferably time-on-target volleys) to avoid counter-battery fire. You want to avoid letting your scouts telegraph where your batteries are.

And you want to, as much as possible, deny them use of their sensors.

I realized that not only do I don't know, its not that easy to find. I want to avoid making it unrealistically defended. But I don't want to make it unrealistically "fair" either. The guys on the attack are looking forward to the challenge.

Make the clanners earn every foot, Don. ;)

I'll only play Clan units as an opposing force, never a player character. (Victories against the AI don't count for advancement purposes in my gaming group) They are motherless vat jobs who use military might to impose bondage on other humans. What's not to dislike?

Their gauss rifles. Their mechs. Want the list?

Air assets include attack helos, but they die too fast in mech combat, ie as soon as they get in range. I only use them for spotting, not engaging battle mechs.

Use them to take out their scouts, or creatively to lure them into a fire-trap. Otherwise, yeah, keep 'em back. They're meat for anybody with an ER laser.

I just fly them up high enough over the artillery that they can see over most of the terrain.

Don't put them over your artillery. Put them over where you want them to think your artillery is. When they start to catch on, put them over where you want them to believe your artillery isn't.

[korjik]

Technically? this depends on the total size of the forces contesting the planet. If I remember right, an arty battery should be the support for a Mech regiment. Since you arent running, that implies a multi-regiment action. In that case, I would have an infantry battalion supported by a heavy armour company for local defence, but there should also be a light or medium mech battalion in reserve nearby to respond to an incursion like this.

However, to answer with only the restrictions you gave, I would still say an infantry battalion, but with a heavy armour company or two, enough ADA lances to make a strafing run prohibitively expensive, and a company or two of hovercraft as a quick reaction force.

Tactics are stall and let the arty scrap the mechs (yeah, I realize that is pretty obvious, but old habits die hard). Swing the hover around behind, and stall as much as possible. I agree that you wont have much of the hover left after, but every mech that has to turn around to keep from getting lasers up the backside is one that eats another arty shell.

Now that the question is out of the way, may the fleas of a thousand camels infest the private parts of the person who thought the clans were a good idea. Ruined a good game.

[BigDon]

Aw, that's one of the beautiful things about the upcoming engagement. My opponents don't see the artillery as much of a use or a threat. Because nobody they regularly play has gotten proficient with it and the AI is abysmal when it comes to using it. So they have chosen not to spend any points for artillery of their own.

After I lost a whole planet to the Clan (In seven major battles and a lunar side battle) I vowed there had to be a way to defeat them with the Inner Sphere, so I read all the special weird rules and advanced ordinance thingies I could get my hands on.

Settled on becoming an artillery specialist after an infantry-on-mech engagement resulted in the loss of way too many (of my) mechs. Having several dozen "one point of damage" attacks doesn't sound too threatening until certain game mechanics come into play. The heads of all mechs are standardized to have nine points of armor and three points of internal structure. All well and good. Any attack that does at least one point of damage to the head of a mech also does one point of damage to the pilot. Uh oh! Mech warriors only have five hit points. D'oh!

Out of two lances, four mechs were lost due to pilot death alone and two other were destroyed by combat. The other two mechs performed a "tactical withdrawal" after recovering the two downed pilots (under heavy fire I might add).

So I spent a day learning basic arty and challedged the guy to a rematch. I would use the two surviving mechs plus an artillery mech. He picked a map set covered with heavy woods so I couldn't use my range advantage. At the last moment, during the load out phase, I chose to take a couple of tons of inferno mines.

Holymoly! That worked so well it was embarassing! My opponent, a compulsive Clanner who's only played the computer version even gloated when the first couple went off from having landed in occupied hexs, "Ha! Inferno rounds don't damage infantry! Read the rules, Dweeb!"

Yeah, but they cause automatic forest fires in any hex they go off in. (Sorry Greenfeather! But it was the Clan!)

It was so bad that once it got going, seven platoons burned to death in single round. All told 17 platoons were killed by the fires. As battlemechs don't really have a problem with forest fires the remaining eight platoons were easily isolated and destroyed in detail.

After that lesson I decided to get good with artillery.

They are going to allow me to use not four but six mechs capable of launching two Arrow missiles a turn and use a single wide map.

They are soooo dead.

First thing, right off the bat, I'm spending about three turns laying down a minefield about 1.5 boards down range that cuts the board in two. That and a single board is sixteen hexs wide and a single Arrow missile has a blast radius of two hexs, not counting the one it lands in. Can you say, "Mommy make it stop?"

They always mill there on the far side of the minefield trying to get a shot off or trying to get their movement values where they can jump it. That's all I need. I've launched vollies that made folks think the sky was coming down on them.

BD

[BigDon]

Korjik, you posted while I was typing. Yeah, I know. That's why I enjoy killing them so much.

I'll have a friendly force of mechs on my side. Still its going to be 25 Clan mechs on 11 combined force mechs. The infantry is a "side show". Six Inner Sphere arty mechs and an assault star of mechs from the now banished Wolf Clan.

I know, I know, but I had to think of my people. The arty is all I have left after losing Don's World to a combined Coyote/Ghost Bear invasion force. We now "rent out" for parties that do dirt to the Clans or pirates.

The attack is to be played out as a planned surprise assault on the position. Hence the heavy attacking force. Two assault stars plus three heavy stars are going to be the Clan cluster. Prior to the attack we are going to see if they come down 3, 4 or 5 boards away. Though for simplicity they'll all come down together.

I can't beleive how I've lulled them into such a false sense of security. Part of the reason the Wolf player joined me was he's the only one of the human players who has seen my artillery-work.

[Neverfly]

Artillery is the King of Battle.:neutral:


Ahh the good ol' days, sitting in the freezing cold outside the TOC or walkin the wire...

You want good security BigDon?
There is one primary piece of equipment and supply you need to move to the top of the list:
Decent Coffee and a Coffee Maker. That Brown, muddy sandpaper water just don't cut it.

[Warren Platts]

Artillery is the King of Battle.:neutral:


Ahh the good ol' days, sitting in the freezing cold outside the TOC or walkin the wire...

You want good security BigDon?
There is one primary piece of equipment and supply you need to move to the top of the list:
Decent Coffee and a Coffee Maker. That Brown, muddy sandpaper water just don't cut it.

I respectfully disagree, sir. Better to have Tennessee whiskey.

[Neverfly]

I respectfully disagree, sir. Better to have Tennessee whiskey.

Class VI supplies are strategically distributed outside the chain of command.

[Neverfly]

Artillery in a game and in actual combat are a bit different. In a game you are usually more easily able to see what your enemy is up to.

Artillery pays attention to terrain and mobility. Good scouts.
Fire and move.

[korjik]

Korjik, you posted while I was typing. Yeah, I know. That's why I enjoy killing them so much.

I'll have a friendly force of mechs on my side. Still its going to be 25 Clan mechs on 11 combined force mechs. The infantry is a "side show". Six Inner Sphere arty mechs and an assault star of mechs from the now banished Wolf Clan.

I know, I know, but I had to think of my people. The arty is all I have left after losing Don's World to a combined Coyote/Ghost Bear invasion force. We now "rent out" for parties that do dirt to the Clans or pirates.

The attack is to be played out as a planned surprise assault on the position. Hence the heavy attacking force. Two assault stars plus three heavy stars are going to be the Clan cluster. Prior to the attack we are going to see if they come down 3, 4 or 5 boards away. Though for simplicity they'll all come down together.

I can't beleive how I've lulled them into such a false sense of security. Part of the reason the Wolf player joined me was he's the only one of the human players who has seen my artillery-work.

They are coming down on an arty force with assault mechs? Please tell me you have salvage rights on the free mechs you are getting thrown at you. Heck, you could almost leave a rolling minefield under their feet as they cross the board.

Dont count the squishies out tho. SRM infantry in woods can be annoying enough to be used as area control, especially if the clanners are too busy shooting at your mechs. Put em where they can shoot at the gaggle at the edge of the minefield. Heck, make 'em anti-mech and go for them at the minefield. A clanner with a hip crit in the middle of a minefield gives me a warm feeling inside :)

I am suprised that you havent learned arty before now. It is called the King of Battle for a reason :) Old school rules, even a battery of sniper cannons could give you a bad day, much less the havok of a battery of long toms.

[korjik]

I respectfully disagree, sir. Better to have Tennessee whiskey.

Ick. After 3 days in a TOC, even I will start in on the coffee. The ethanol is for when you back home.

[korjik]

Artillery in a game and in actual combat are a bit different. In a game you are usually more easily able to see what your enemy is up to.

Artillery pays attention to terrain and mobility. Good scouts.
Fire and move.

works out about the same in the game actually. terrain and mobility dictate where you shoot when going long range. Main difference is the lack of counter battery in the game. dont have to scoot quite so quick.

[BigDon]

Artillery is the King of Battle.:neutral:


Ahh the good ol' days, sitting in the freezing cold outside the TOC or walkin the wire...

You want good security BigDon?
There is one primary piece of equipment and supply you need to move to the top of the list:
Decent Coffee and a Coffee Maker. That Brown, muddy sandpaper water just don't cut it.

Now Nev, I used to be a sailor.

The Navy will never send you anywhere that doesn't have coffee. Heck, a coffee mess gets set up even before the latrines. My shop had a forty cup electric percolator. We refilled it on average 7 to 8 times a day when at sea. Altogether on the day and night shift there were 37 of us. Plus, we had some Mormons and a stray JW or two so not everyone drank coffee.

One time the Ordies had a new chief (E-7) who swiped our coffeepot when no-one was looking. As the Ordinancemen were ever our allies, both asea and ashore they were horrified he had done this to us. (Its not like we were snipes or deck apes or something). He had already painted it red when some of his guys asked him where he swiped it. They mutinied on him and gave it back to us, as we were actively looking for it by this time. It garnered him weinie points it took a long time to clear. (To be fair, he did later) One of our E-5's then spent the rest of the night restoring it to its original finish.

BD

[Neverfly]

The ethanol is for when you back home.

Or to dump in the tank of the deuce and a half to get you home;)

[Whirlpool]

Artillery in a game and in actual combat are a bit different. In a game you are usually more easily able to see what your enemy is up to.

And in a game , you can re-start , and alive again. In actual combat , if you're hit , you're dead.

[Doodler]

I say I'm going to eat their lunch and pop their sacks. Against the AI I've destroyed whole clusters of Clan mechs with just four (double gun) pieces and five mechs as an overwatch. Without loss. I've got artillery down. They don't have to know that though.


Its been a little while since I've played tabletop Battletech, never seen anything that allows for that kind of play in a computer format. In general terms, I would REALLY hesitate to rely on any tactic that works well against an AI when facing a human. AI's tend to rely on algorithmic behaviour, where humans adapt to perceived patterns. Oh, sure, those first volleys, you'll do some damage, but once they see what you're up to, they can adjust their approach to throw you.

What game are you using to play Battletech?

[Mister Earl]

I am an avid Mechwarrior fan. I've never had the pleasure of playing the tactical board game, regrettably. Always the PC games. Back in the good old days of Mechwarrior 4, it would rank you online against everyone else in the world. For a short time, I managed to get ranked 24th in Capture the Flag games. Worldwide. Regular team vs team matches I did very well in also... I was known for coming up with crazy variants that everyone said wouldn't work, and then MADE them work. For example, I took a standard Shadowcat chasses, stripped off almost ALL of the armor (Against 100t mechs, a single alpha strike would usually kill a 'cat anyway), bumped up the engine, and put two arrow thunderbolt missile systems on it. I didn't snipe, mind you. In MW4 the thunderbolt was unguided. My entire strategy was to engage the enemy in close combat (circle of death for those of you familiar with the terminology). I'd try to predict an alpha strike from the 100t, and jink to evade it. Then I'd circle around behind them, and plant both thunderbolts squarely in their back armor. Usually only took about 3 hits from each thunderbolt to strip away all back armor, and another hit or two to kill it.

Good times.

[Moose]

I was known for coming up with crazy variants that everyone said wouldn't work, and then MADE them work.

In Mercenary, I had good results (although I never competed online) with a Puma equipped with a single Clan LBX-20 (about all it would carry.)

[DyerWolf]

Class VI supplies are strategically distributed outside the chain of command.

So true.

BigDon - In Bosnia, I used one platoon of USMC infantry to support a US Army battery (6 guns) during joint ops. The Arty boys liked having us around for their local security, we liked having them around because they had heaters and coffee (things Marines never seem to have) in the 10 degree February weather (although we did have plenty of ammunition). Thanks to the Brits (who always seem to corner the black market) my Devil Dogs also had access to a little Class VI. In addition to having air superiority in an area without a significant air threat, we also had some LAAD bubbas along.

We didn't anticipate any attacks from Battlemechs - but perhaps you can extrapolate from there.

[CodeSlinger]

What game are you using to play Battletech?

I believe he's using MegaMek (http://megamek.sourceforge.net/idx.php?pg=main).


In Mercenary, I had good results (although I never competed online) with a Puma equipped with a single Clan LBX-20 (about all it would carry.)


Yeah, when they implemented the "weapon fire now imparts force" thing, the LBX series became king. I remember having a lot of fun with the Solaris VII arena missions by loading up on LBX's, and running around knocking mechs over with alpha strikes. Ah, good times :)

[Neverfly]

So true.

BigDon - In Bosnia, I used one platoon of USMC infantry to support a US Army battery (6 guns) during joint ops. The Arty boys liked having us around for their local security, we liked having them around because they had heaters and coffee (things Marines never seem to have) in the 10 degree February weather (although we did have plenty of ammunition). Thanks to the Brits (who always seem to corner the black market) my Devil Dogs also had access to a little Class VI. In addition to having air superiority in an area without a significant air threat, we also had some LAAD bubbas along.

We didn't anticipate any attacks from Battlemechs - but perhaps you can extrapolate from there.
Many people are surprised to learn that the Marines have a small artillery. I served with some marines.
Not in Bosna I Herzegovina, however. I was at Camp Eagle, Tuzla.

[Doodler]

I believe he's using MegaMek (http://megamek.sourceforge.net/idx.php?pg=main).

:surprised

GREAT CAESAR SALAD!!!! I've found heaven!

[DyerWolf]

Many people are surprised to learn that the Marines have a small artillery. I served with some marines.
Not in Bosna I Herzegovina, however. I was at Camp Eagle, Tuzla.

Yeah, we have our own towed 155s, and just about every other bit of weaponry you might hope for to use in "force projection."

One thing I've often found interesting about the USMC is that while we don't bring our own medical staff or chaplains (the Navy provides those) to the field, we do bring our own lawyers.

Wonder what that says about us?:whistle:

Perhaps I'll have to check out this Megamek after I get home...

[Moose]

Ooh, sourceforged. Yeah, I'll be checking that out tonight.

[CodeSlinger]

BigDon, look what you've started :)

Has the aforementioned engagement taken place yet? I would be very interested in reading a write-up of it. And I suspect I'm not the only one!

[Mister Earl]

In Mercenary, I had good results (although I never competed online) with a Puma equipped with a single Clan LBX-20 (about all it would carry.)

I would've reduced that to an AC10. LBX are nice close in, but the damage spread isn't too desireable to me. You'd get close damage, more accurate (for headshots, hehe), and the ability to "juggle" the aim of a target at longer range.

For you PC Mechwarrior types, "Juggling" is the technique of hitting an enemy with a weapon that shakes the targeting of the enemy a split second before they fire. More than a few times I fought a Daishi toe-to-toe with shadowcat and killed it without taking a scratch, just because I correctly anticipated each shot and juggled it away. (Wouldn't try that against a vet, they'd counter too easily, but on newbies it worked wonders)

Gonna try that Megamek site tonight. Looks great!

[Moose]

I would've reduced that to an AC10. LBX are nice close in, but the damage spread isn't too desireable to me. You'd get close damage, more accurate (for headshots, hehe), and the ability to "juggle" the aim of a target at longer range.

I'm a fair shot, but not so good that I can head shot while close-in. On high-mobility mechs, I'll accept the spread. The larger the mech, though, the more I appreciate the narrowly-focused ammo-based weapons.

I was particularly fond of the MW4 Haupfman set up with 2 ultra AC-20s on the arms and an IS light gauss on the shoulder mount for sniping and anti-air. It didn't leave you much room for engine upgrades, but it could dish it out. (And the nice thing was that since I didn't play online, nobody would accuse me of boating.)

You know, I'm kinda tempted to throw MW4: Mercs back on, see what it looks like on my 22" widescreen.

[Mister Earl]

Try one of my favorite of loadouts, then. My memory is kinda bad, so it might not be exact: Take a Kodiak, and cut it to the BONE. Armor, engine, heatsinks, take them ALL away. You can fit on THREE(!) Thunderbolt missile systems, an ERPPC, and a Clan Gauss cannon. I called it my glass cannon. Even as squishy as it was, I was usually able to kill two to three enemy mechs before something vital was hit and I was taken down. A very, very, very, lethal build.

EDIT: I wouldn't fire all five at once... I usually had the ERPPC and the CGAUSS set as firing group one, and the three thunderbolts as group two.

[DyerWolf]

The last time I played a Mechwarrior game it came in this box. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:MechWarrior_2_cover.jpg)

I take it you guys are not talking about the same game.

What version are you all playing?

[Mister Earl]

Mech 4, mercs. It's OK, but you really have to get both expansion boxes.

[Mister Earl]

Man, did I ever love Mech 2. It was nice having the ability to fire your jumpjets laterally. I had a firemoth achieve about 400kph, if memory serves.

[Moose]

Even as squishy as it was, I was usually able to kill two to three enemy mechs before something vital was hit and I was taken down. A very, very, very, lethal build.

I believe it. Still, it's a glass cannon and not quite as versatile (or survivable) as my Haupfman. I usually took more splash damage from exploding mechs than they were ever able to do to me on their own, unless they were ganging up on me 4:1 or worse (like in the grand championship, which I never successfully completed because I never found a way to keep from stampeding the "cattle" right over my backside. That and the splash damage I can't seem to keep from taking lots of.)

(Speaking, suggestions for the Grand Championship would be welcome, and to give you an idea, I usually top out somewhere after you wipe out that rival merc outfit and the clan. I just keep losing a bit too much rare hardware to get much further.)

It's the main reason I prefer running ammo mechs. I'm generally good at not running out of ammo. Not so good managing heat or more than three firing modes. I usually set up the mouse for 1-fire big cannon on left arm, 2-fire big cannon on right arm, 3-fire full missile volley or shoulder-mounted big cannon. Then I put shots into either shoulder (pick one) until the mech explodes. Usually three well-aimed shots (not volleys) from either of the UAC-20s are enough to put down an assault mech.

I do like using Thunderbolts on fire-support mechs, but I was never able to coax the AI into being smart about operating one. Normally, only toe-to-toe assualt mechs are useful in the hands of the computer, and even then, they tend to tangle up on each other.

I miss sniping with MW3 (although legging mechs at 950+ meters got a bit boring.)

[Doodler]

The only Mechwarrior I played was the original. I had a crack lance of three Battlemaster NPC pilots with me in a Locust I called Anklebiter.

Nothing more fun than running around popping legs off of enemy mechs while the boys handled the objectives.

I also have a REALLY old Battletech game, The Crescent Hawk's Inception. I figured out how to escape the initial area with the Chameleon heavy mech. Made the rest of the game a LOT easier having that Large Laser to blast away with. I always wanted to go back and try to steal the Urbanmech that showed up at the arena.

[Mister Earl]

I did the grand championship with a tricket out shadowcat. Kills are not as important as survivability there. Most kills doesn't give you a win, last man standing does. Keep mobile, evade heavy fire, hit and retreat. I even got grand champ with an Uller and a small battery of pulse lasers.

[Moose]

I did the grand championship with a tricket out shadowcat. Kills are not as important as survivability there. Most kills doesn't give you a win, last man standing does. Keep mobile, evade heavy fire, hit and retreat. I even got grand champ with an Uller and a small battery of pulse lasers.

Hmm. Good point. I often got through medium matches with barely so much as a scratch (my very best class, too.) Worth a try once I become proficient again.

[CodeSlinger]

W.r.t. the Grand Championship...

Kills are not as important as survivability there. Most kills doesn't give you a win, last man standing does. Keep mobile, evade heavy fire, hit and retreat.

^ What he said.

In my experience, LBX's seemed to do a disproportionately large amount of damage (as in, more damage than other weapons with similar same damage ratings) in MW4. So I usually picked a 85-90 tonner, something that allowed me to load up on LBX's (2 LBX-20 + 1 LBX-10 is good, 3 LBX-20's are even better) while still having reasonable speed.

When the match first starts, I hit full speed right away, and try to toast anyone that is firing on me. Once my immediate vicinity is clear, I chill out and look around for a bit. At this point, the remaining mechs are usually engaged in a number of small firefights. Once I find one of these fights, I sneak up on the stronger guy in the fight, and unload my LBX's on his rear torso until he goes explodey, then finish off the weaker guy(s).

Against guys who are not distracted by other opponents, my tactic involves closing in a zig-zag at full speed, keeping obstacles between myself and intended victim as much as possible, and then cranking my torso to 90 degrees right or left and circle strafe the target at short range at full speed. This limits the computer to high-deflection snap shots, which it usually misses. I also hit the reverse at random intervals to vary my speed (hit reverse, let speed drop, and then hit reverse once more to accelerate again), which seems to further foul up the computer's aim. Meanwhile, I just keep unloading the LBX's on the rear torso, legs, arms, whenever the reticule lines up with the target.

I imagine this will get me killed in short order against humans, but it works well enough against the AI. Hope this helps. BigDon, sorry for the running hijack!

[Mister Earl]

Hehe, MW3. Hated how that played online. 3ERPPCs and you could leg/kill anything in a single shot.

[Mister Earl]

Another good tactic is "Damage spread". If you're badly hurt, try to anticipate when the next round of shots is going to hit you, and twist your torso so you take the damage on less damaged areas.

[Moose]

Hehe, MW3. Hated how that played online. 3ERPPCs and you could leg/kill anything in a single shot.

I've single-shot killed Daishi more than once (legged a bunch in two hits) with my 6 ER Med Laser equipped (3 ER Large) caldron born. The neat thing is this: you can actually fire that (6ton weight) without overheating the mech (although it'll alarm pretty much continuously, 5 ER meds per volley are quieter). With enough heatsinks, you could have 6 ER Meds on each arm, fire them in 2 separate volleys each reload, and still never overheat.

I loved how the MCVs were implemented, though. Best part of the game (which isn't saying much.)

[Moose]

Another good tactic is "Damage spread". If you're badly hurt, try to anticipate when the next round of shots is going to hit you, and twist your torso so you take the damage on less damaged areas.

Yeah, I'm familiar with all of these tactics. The only one that's really new for me is the "use a lighter mech and avoid getting hit". I don't think I've ever seen an AI grand champ candidate use anything other than an Assault mech. It never occurred to me to try anything different.

[Mister Earl]

Have you played online much, Moose? I break the players' tactics down to a few different catagories:

1.) Slugger: 100 ton mech, lots of ammo based weapons, high armor, high damage, little mobility. Strategy entails just blowing stuff up before they die.
2.) Laser Pick: Usually 60ish tons (Novacat). Large number of ERLargeLasers and sinks if heat is on. High speed. Used at range to snipe on the run. Pretty effective at range but usually don't do too well up close.
3.) Rowboat: Stands behind the military crest of a hill. Loadout is usually all missiles. Spray 'n pray, then retreat behind the crest.
4.) LSM: My catagory. Stands for "Little @#$@ Mech". Defense is entirely speed and evasion. I've won free-for-all matches with these. The achilles heel for this loadout is: A: Accurate players, B: Area-of-effect weaponry (Longtoms, HE, Ect) C: Low damage (Forcing you to rely on aim, focusing all damage on one point (Head, rear torso))
5.) Plinkers. These are the guys that position themselves like boats (military crest), but use UAC2s in huge numbers. Low damage, but it juggles your aim badly, and it's very hard to hit the plinker doing it.

[Moose]

No, I don't play online at all. Not since '97 or so when I stopped mudding and parents started to see the net as their kids' babysitters, rather than TV.

I've occasionally posted on BAUT to gauge interest in some game or another, but otherwise...

1) I've never had enough time/interest to invest in becoming competitive to online standards.

2) I'm very much a "get the heck off my lawn" type, so the type of personality (aka, annoying and offensive kids to whom you want to take a bar of soap, the especially yucky tasting kind) that anonymous online play tends to attract gets on my nerves except in very short doses. This goes double with the gaming clan types that I see being offensive on GameFAQs. I've seen them completely ruin more than one forum with their hostility to the point that no FAQ was ever posted for that game or any of its expansions. (SW: EaW lists very high as an example.)

3) I'm in an inconvenient timezone, and a morning person to boot, so when I do find people I wouldn't mind playing with, it means staying up well past my ability to remain alert before they even think about being able to settle down for multiplay anything.

[Moose]

Speaking of which, yeah, I tend to be somewhere between a slugger and an LSM.

I've built a (theoretical) design around a paired cLBX-20 cauldron born (with a couple of cLRM-10s for taking out emplacements at a distance. Never got to play with it, though, not even Mercenaries lets you capture any of the expansion pack mechs for in-game use. (And I really wish Microsoft would have told me about that little issue before I went and purchased them.)

Oh, I'll see 'em in the arena from time to time, but they don't let you capture those mechs. All other mechs are pre-placed. So sorry, Moose. You no get to play with cauldron-born.

[Mister Earl]

Yeah, you find irritating kids worldwide, regardless of time zones. But on the plus side, you *do* get to shoot them full of holes. I'm the get-offa-my-lawn type myself, though I haven't hit thirty yet. Don't let the kids dissuade you... there's a large number of very competant players out there who are mature enough to have a good match with. Some of my best times on MW4 were me testing out various crazy variants to see what would work, and what wouldn't.

Hehe... I made a LSM variant once, think it was an uller... just 4 MRM5's. Moderate damage, unguided, great up close. I'd liquidate his Daishi with little effort in close, and it was spry enough to dodge 'n weave over open terrain until I could get close enough to circle-of-death.

[CodeSlinger]

I've built a (theoretical) design around a paired cLBX-20 cauldron born (with a couple of cLRM-10s for taking out emplacements at a distance. Never got to play with it, though, not even Mercenaries lets you capture any of the expansion pack mechs for in-game use. (And I really wish Microsoft would have told me about that little issue before I went and purchased them.)

Oh, I'll see 'em in the arena from time to time, but they don't let you capture those mechs. All other mechs are pre-placed. So sorry, Moose. You no get to play with cauldron-born.

Have you played with MekTek's MekPak 3 (http://www.mektek.net/projects/mp3/) before? It's a community mod that adds quite a few new mech's to the game. And IIRC, it also enables you to play with the MS expansion pack mechs in the campaign.

[Moose]

Have you played with MekTek's MekPak 3 (http://www.mektek.net/projects/mp3/) before? It's a community mod that adds quite a few new mech's to the game. And IIRC, it also enables you to play with the MS expansion pack mechs in the campaign.

*jaw hits floor and rolls under desk*

WoweSthlinmer, thphthahs awthonme!!!

*hits download button*

[Mister Earl]

*jaw hits floor and rolls under desk*

WoweSthlinmer, thphthahs awthonme!!!

*hits download button*

What he said O_O
I'll be online with it tonight. Gotta see this!!

[CodeSlinger]

In the interest of full disclosure, I need to clarify that I've never played with the MekPak's myself. I only found it after the game had been long gone from my HD. And while I'm positive all the new mech's are playable in MP, I'm not really sure whether they are available in the single-player campaign, or just those custom/quick single-player missions.

[Moose]

Oh, just FYI, my firewall triggered on a registry alteration attempt early during the download. It's possible it (or possibly microsoft) tried to install something in a clandestine way. A spyware/virus check might be worth doing in the near future.

[CodeSlinger]

Ick; thank you for the heads-up.

[Moose]

Oh snap. False alarm. It was the MW4: Mercs installer trying to fire up. It had a weird process name. I thought I'd disabled autoplay on that drive. Guess I hadn't.

[RalofTyr]

I have defeated the Clans using 3025 Innerspere technology twice on paper, not on the computer.

Once, was using two LAM mechs vs. 2 100 ton clan mechs. It took 78 turns and all night, but I did it. I simply waited until I won initive, struck from the area and then retreated behind land depression until I won next turn.

The second time was in a Battletech/Mechwarrior Mercenary style game in which other elements of war such as resupply, money and support come into play. After watching a show about the Great Patriotic War, in which a large insurgency force attacked the invading NAZIs, I got an idea and we tested it. With the Draconis Combine being a totalitarian government, there were some parrallels. The Clan showed up, and easily swept aside our 3025 forces. However, they needed to be resupplied and repaired, that's where we struck. The DCMS special forces trained large number of civilian forces (Kurita has a numeric superiority to the clans, which we exploited), to attack clan resupply vehicles and bases. Sure, in Mechwarrior 2, the Clans second line troops were better shots, however, there were simply more DCMS resistence fighters. Soon, Clan Mechs would easily take a city, but couldn't hold on to it. The DCMS would even assassinate key clan leaders in "Safe" cities. The DCMS special forces were brutal to the Clans and likewise, the Clans were brutal as well. The Clans would annihilate whole settlements, which would only create die hard troops out of the few survivors that fought against the Clans. Secondly, the economic aspects would be key. For every one mech, you could field three or four vehicles. So, instead of creating mechs, we created armies and armies of armored vehicles and conventional aircraft. We would send three to four regiments of armored vehicles and then the mechs after they soften up the Clan mechs. We won a few battles. By the time the Clan unit is done with fighting all those armored units, they are weak as 3025 mechs or usually less. By the time the game was over, a whole summer, every one in the Jade Falcon source book (we used that as a guide), was KIA. They were being replaced, not with the specially trainned forces with decades of experience as they had in the past, but by second line troop and freebirths hastily trainned. Our losses, we think we lost about half of the planet's population. Most of our cities were destroyed, thought a few key industrial cities remained. Sure, another Clan could have moved in and eventually conquered our world. We estimated that they would probably lose half of their forces. But, that was just ONE world. The Clans are no match for attrition.


As for your game, if you cannot defend your artillery against the Clan force, then divide it up and hide it in six different locations, all firing on one location at a time. (The Clan LZ?). Pair your infantry up in small squads with a radio and simply use them as spoters. Make the Clans think all of your artillery is in one section as to keep them a group and a better target. Use your defense force offensively to pick of the disabled, separated and lost clan mechs. Think like a pack of wolves going after the wounded buffelo. Be brutal.

[korjik]

The last time I played a Mechwarrior game it came in this box. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:MechWarrior_2_cover.jpg)

I take it you guys are not talking about the same game.

What version are you all playing?

The game has changed quite a bit since then. Mostly badly in my opinion, but since I started playing when the only product available was the original box set, I may be a bit biased.

[korjik]

I have defeated the Clans using 3025 Innerspere technology twice on paper, not on the computer.

Once, was using two LAM mechs vs. 2 100 ton clan mechs. It took 78 turns and all night, but I did it. I simply waited until I won initive, struck from the area and then retreated behind land depression until I won next turn.

The second time was in a Battletech/Mechwarrior Mercenary style game in which other elements of war such as resupply, money and support come into play. After watching a show about the Great Patriotic War, in which a large insurgency force attacked the invading NAZIs, I got an idea and we tested it. With the Draconis Combine being a totalitarian government, there were some parrallels. The Clan showed up, and easily swept aside our 3025 forces. However, they needed to be resupplied and repaired, that's where we struck. The DCMS special forces trained large number of civilian forces (Kurita has a numeric superiority to the clans, which we exploited), to attack clan resupply vehicles and bases. Sure, in Mechwarrior 2, the Clans second line troops were better shots, however, there were simply more DCMS resistence fighters. Soon, Clan Mechs would easily take a city, but couldn't hold on to it. The DCMS would even assassinate key clan leaders in "Safe" cities. The DCMS special forces were brutal to the Clans and likewise, the Clans were brutal as well. The Clans would annihilate whole settlements, which would only create die hard troops out of the few survivors that fought against the Clans. Secondly, the economic aspects would be key. For every one mech, you could field three or four vehicles. So, instead of creating mechs, we created armies and armies of armored vehicles and conventional aircraft. We would send three to four regiments of armored vehicles and then the mechs after they soften up the Clan mechs. We won a few battles. By the time the Clan unit is done with fighting all those armored units, they are weak as 3025 mechs or usually less. By the time the game was over, a whole summer, every one in the Jade Falcon source book (we used that as a guide), was KIA. They were being replaced, not with the specially trainned forces with decades of experience as they had in the past, but by second line troop and freebirths hastily trainned. Our losses, we think we lost about half of the planet's population. Most of our cities were destroyed, thought a few key industrial cities remained. Sure, another Clan could have moved in and eventually conquered our world. We estimated that they would probably lose half of their forces. But, that was just ONE world. The Clans are no match for attrition.


As for your game, if you cannot defend your artillery against the Clan force, then divide it up and hide it in six different locations, all firing on one location at a time. (The Clan LZ?). Pair your infantry up in small squads with a radio and simply use them as spoters. Make the Clans think all of your artillery is in one section as to keep them a group and a better target. Use your defense force offensively to pick of the disabled, separated and lost clan mechs. Think like a pack of wolves going after the wounded buffelo. Be brutal.

Well, if you are going to take advantage of all the natural flaws in the game system, it isnt suprising that you would win. :)

I dont mean that as a criticism. Its been obvious to me since Citytech was released that with the comparative costs and capabilities, 'Mechs werent the gods of war portrayed in the fluff. Great for planetary assault, but once the LZ was secure, swap out for tanks and infantry. Upping the tech really just made the problem worse.

[BigDon]

Doodler, I use Megamek nowadays. No more spending 4 hours coloring it dots with a pencil. What was weird was the game continued to "develope" storyline for some two years after I stopped playing the board game version.

Thier servers resolve all the fighting and combat conditions and you just declare tatgets. All the tables are still based on the odds of two six sided dice, which is interesting in a computer war game. I've been throwing dice since the mid-seventies. The computer set up allows for huge fights that would have taken all of spring break to set up and play.

Important thing about playing the AI with large numbers of units with long movement range.

In the game set-up there is a switch that sets up how you want to do your turns.

One set up is, during movement and during the seperate fire phase the side whose initiative it is chooses the mech or unit he wants to use and moves or fires that one. This freaks the computer out. Way too many decisions.

Go with the setting that rolls for individual initiative turn order (per side) and takes that process away from the AI. Once we discovered those switch settings whole new vistas of combined arms battles took over. The dumas AI still tries to engage you with the LongTom's onboard machineguns though. Sort of sad and funny at the same time.

Moose, there is an Inner Sphere mech called a Blitzkrieg (sp) I kept one as a pet "Bulldog" for my main Mech pilot. Basically an LBX 20 with legs. Has even more movement than the Puma. Good for back shooting heavy mechs that are closing with my main character.

Also an LBX cannon can swap out between the "flechette" loads and solid HE rounds if you allocate the tonnage. Good for that "coup de grace" head shot as well.

Okay, this is how the fight went down.

They lucked out and dropped in close. So they started at the far edge of three maps away. Terrain was cold and flat. We called it the "Battle for Saskatchewan II"

Right off, once we were at the computers, (on our own LAN at my place) the Clanners went "D'oh" and remembered their basic land warfare. If you don't have a counter battery when taking on arty you'ld damn well better have cavalry.

So we renegotiated the order of battle. After a bit of horse trading they ended up with a "reinforced" cluster of 32 units for trading down in weight and up in numbers of lighter mechs and I got an extra lance of heavy tanks mounting dual heavy gauss rifles and a sixer of Sam Adam's Black Lager. Morons. I'd a done it for the beer.

So then I made drinks. Yep, they let me make the drinks right before a major battle against me. Soooo, while everybody else's greyhound was a "double", mine was a "half". In big glasses so they didn't notice right off. This didn't start to get obvious until later (after they had three over the evening). There's that phrase about youth and skill vs. age and treachery that comes to mind.

(Is that cheating?)

So these were two guys who have never lost to me while playing their clan units. Half of the quartet of evil Clanners who pushed me off my own planet.

Okay, something has come up that requires my attention. I'm going to have to give this a:

To be continued!

[Moose]

(Is that cheating?)


Sun Tzu devoted an entire chapter on winning a war with a "Sheathed Sword".

To fight and conquor in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking your enemy's resistance without fighting.

He had a chapter called Attack By Fire.

the fifth [way to attack by fire] is to hurl dropping fire among the enemy.

Clearly, he meant getting 'em drunk on firewater.

And he had a chapter on spies and sabotage.

Now this foreknowledge cannot be elicited from spirits

... but from your relative sobriety when your foes are drunker than they realize they are.

Sun Tzu would approve, grasshoppah.

[Doodler]

I've got The Drawing Board downloaded, and now I'm giving some of the classic Inner Sphere mechs a proper going over...

Step 1: Get C3 online... :)

[Mister Earl]

I could not get MegaMek to work. Even after updating everything I could think of, executing the program gives me a basic dos screen that attempts to run javascript -style command prompts, and they all recieve "invalid command".

#EDIT: Are elementals in the game?

[Doodler]

I could not get MegaMek to work. Even after updating everything I could think of, executing the program gives me a basic dos screen that attempts to run javascript -style command prompts, and they all recieve "invalid command".

#EDIT: Are elementals in the game?

Yes, elementals are in the game, even the Inner Sphere versions, if I read correctly.


As far as what to update, even updating the Java VM didn't work?

[Mister Earl]

That was the first thing I did, Doodler. Even rebooted the machine. I got the same results.

Man, I'd love to get into that. The ambushes and traps you can set with that much equipment.. elementals are easy to hide and are unexpected threats...

[CodeSlinger]

Mister Earl,

What did you download? I downloaded MegaMek-v0.32.2.zip from this page (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=47079&package_id=162233&release_id=479333).

When you extracted the files, did you keep the original directory structure? I think WinZip has a "Use Folder Names" checkbox, make sure that's checked if that's what you use.

Can you verify what version of Java runtime environment you have installed? Go to Start -> Run, enter "cmd.exe" which will give you a command prompt, type "java -version" in the command prompt, and tell us what you see.

After I downloaded the zip and extracted the files in their original directory structure, I just double-clicked MegaMek.exe. That launched the game for me.

[Mister Earl]

Mister Earl,

What did you download? I downloaded MegaMek-v0.32.2.zip from this page (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=47079&package_id=162233&release_id=479333).

When you extracted the files, did you keep the original directory structure? I think WinZip has a "Use Folder Names" checkbox, make sure that's checked if that's what you use.

Can you verify what version of Java runtime environment you have installed? Go to Start -> Run, enter "cmd.exe" which will give you a command prompt, type "java -version" in the command prompt, and tell us what you see.

After I downloaded the zip and extracted the files in their original directory structure, I just double-clicked MegaMek.exe. That launched the game for me.

I'll have to check when I am at my home machine. At work atm ;)

[BigDon]

Mister Earl, one thing that works is trying to launch the game from the "executable Jar File" instead of the Icon of the battle mech. (Or vise versa)

Yes, there are Elementals, the other heavy armored infantry are Afreets, Slyphs, Golems (twin autocannons and a SRM5) Coronas, Kell Hounds. The counters are groups of four or five instead of 25 for unarmored smoes.

They have some good box canyon maps where I ran mech up against entrenched Clan infantry and armor.

The Coronas, Golems and surprisingly the Slyphs become annoyingly dangerous in close quarters. You have to use two mechs as most mechs can't shoot at their own feet. There are anti-personnel pods that can be purchased seperately if you don't want to try to step on them.

Back to the fight:

Normally my artillery group is four Kamayari Prime due to thier Arrow IV missile launchers being turret mounted and two Schiltron Prime, who have two front mounted Arrow launchers and also pack a nice ECM suite.

This time as a one time only fight I got to use 6 80-ton O-bakemono (OBK-M10 varient) My friend Ol' Wierd Bob was fronting me with his Star of banished Wolf Clan mechs. He was my human opponant when I needed to work out the finer details of blowing things up two turns later.

He was packing a Stone Rhino SERO-V2 varient, (100 tons, 3 gauss rifles, 2 ER med lasers) a Blood Asp A (90 tons, 2 ER PPCs, 2 heavy large lasers) Iron Cheetah B (100 tons, A bunch! of lasers.) and the damnedest pair of twin Cauldron Born (Helmer varient) packing six heavy medium lasers each. Even though their were npc's the two of them were freakin' war heros. All jump capable.

(Heavy varients of the different lasers do a little less than twice the damage at twice the heat. All these boats usually carry double heat sinks)

This is all he had left from a cluster after the Don's World campaign. He also had some captured mechs of mine but felt it would be gauche to use them. (My 100 ton Maurader II! *sniff*) Besides he'd seen my work and didn't feel he needed them.

So 32 screaming Clan mechs sprinting over flat ground from three boards away. They outgun, out range and are more heavily armored than my Inner Sphere mechs.

I utterly slaughtered them. Even I was amazed. It was over in 16 turns.

The first three turns four of my units layed out a mine field 18 hexes away from my most forward units, lacerating the board and the two remaining started dropping rounds where I anticipated a bit of organiziing to take place. With so many mech on the board movement was hindered because of stacking limits.

Now the impact of a single Arrow IV does 30 points to the target hex, ten to the next hex and five beyond that. So from turn two onward life was miserable for them. After turn three it was just destruction.

And the mine field isn't a barrier to mechs, just an obstacle. But the have to stop and adjust their movement points to either jump it or they to negotiate it. Most of them died just on the far side of the minefield. I had Bob advance his star as the bad guys got near the far edge of the field. The double threat made them pause longer than either one alone would have. You didn't want to close with anything he was using without a bunch of friendlies.

On my side there was damage, some severe but the only loses were two platoons of infantry who got too close to the mine field trying to finish off some legless mechs and got hosed out by the mechs' friends. (Eventually had to drop some arty on them as Bob's mechs were busy.)

[Doodler]

Hmms....

I really need to find someplace where I can look over the vehicles again. Right now I'm thinking about starting with a core group of a Catapault variant I use with dual Arrow IVs. Does the game allow for ammo reloading if the carriers are available? Somehow, one ton of ammo for each feels light.

The other side was trying a Rain of Fire with a bunch of LRM launchers like Archers.

[Mister Earl]

I tried running the .jsp. Didn't seem to have any effect. I'll work on it some more tonight. So how does getting matches work? How are matches arranged? Is there usually people on you can challenge blindly? How's it work?

[BigDon]

Hmms....

I really need to find someplace where I can look over the vehicles again. Right now I'm thinking about starting with a core group of a Catapault variant I use with dual Arrow IVs. Does the game allow for ammo reloading if the carriers are available? Somehow, one ton of ammo for each feels light.

The other side was trying a Rain of Fire with a bunch of LRM launchers like Archers.

Doodler, my cynical friend,

if you are going Clan then the Avalanche is the way to go for missile boats. The two varients pack two Arrow IVs or four LRM 20s. A full star of the LRM 20 varient loaded with swarm* rounds and fronted by a good group of brawling heavies is damn near unstoppable. Ol' Weird Bob and I have done that one a whole bunch of times. It's good fun against the AI. On Megamek this is easy to set up once you learn how. Would have taken a weeks prep on the tabletop version.

*Swarm rounds differ from regular LRM rounds in that the missiles that miss seek another target in an adjacent hex instead of just hitting the ground. The second attack gets the first target's to-hit plus one. Any missed rounds from the second attack will seek a third target if in yet another adjacent hex. You still need a ton or two of regular LRM ammo for when your guys close with the enemy.

As far as Arrow IVs

At only 5 shots a ton you better have more than one ton!

The dual Arrow IV launching mechs are (Inner Sphere) O-bakemone packs 6 tons of Arrow IV ammo. And the godawful Clan mechs include the Avalache (prime) 6 tons and the Naga series (Prime, A, B, C, D) which have a minimim of four tons.

One of the reasons I use the dual launcher tanks is the 8 ton ammo capacity.

[BigDon]

Oh and I forgot to say what really carried the day for me in that horribly one-sided arty fight was the bad guys, due to not really learning the artilery rules, not knowing about direct fire mode. It was a horrible surprise and that's where I murdered them once they got close. AND I must say they were good sports about it and didn't quit until it was all over. They was a LOT of limbs out there.

[Doodler]

Nah, I'm sticking with the Inner Sphere standard mechs. Was always a Davion fan.

The custom mechs I'm designing right now are 3050 models modified as little as possible to include the C3 Company level computers. Ironically, there's an alt variant of one mech mentioned in the 3050 sourcebook that was purpose designed for company command with a pair of them. The Archers I was using I had retrofitted with Artemis IV computers.

The Catapaut represents the most radical alteration of any of them I'm using, simply because I think the original with only one Arrow IV was a waste of a Mech. However, I'll give the O-Bakemono a look tonight.

I'd really like to do a combined arms set up, though. A core of mechs, but with some hardcore vehicle and infantry support.

[CodeSlinger]

Thanks for the great write-up, BigDon! :clap:

Now, it would be really great if MegaMek allowed you to record and share replays of battles...

[Moose]

Now, it would be really great if MegaMek allowed you to record and share replays of battles...

Agreed. I'd have loved to have seen that.

[Mister Earl]

There's a mud out there that's battletech based. I loved how that worked, but the learning curve was steep. I loved mortars... lots of damage if you were good with them, but it was a PAIN to fire them. First you'd have to target a specific hex, and wait for a lock. Then you'd fire, then wait for impact. For a running enemy, that meant you had to look about 15 hexes ahead and hammer the numbers in and begin the process. I actually got to the point where I had just enough money to put two light mortars on a plane (forget the designation *cringe*) along with laser-based antimissile system. Worked great, I could dodge projectiles pretty easily, lasers were something else but not a very large threat, and missiles I could defeat with a tight turn (and the LAMS!). Worked great as a scouting vehicle, and I got good enough (macros help) to rain mortar shells down from the skies. Eventually I was raking in so much money that the admins disabled indirect fire weapons on any kind of flying vehicle. I couldn't complain, since it was apparently against the rulebook somewhere (shouldn't have been possible, oversight). Still, good times.

[BigDon]

Thanks for the great write-up, BigDon! :clap:

Thank you! and that's what makes the loss of the story of the "Battle For Don's World" so painful for me. As the battles were fought out I saved them in short story fashion and was so pleased with the tragic melodrama that I was going to post it in the small media at large.

Here were the details:

It was supposed to be a "tug of war" campaign that was going for best of twelve. But I got swepted. The first two fights were where I had the most large mechs but had forgotten the dispairity in the two group's battle mechs even for mechs of the same Battle Value. They hadn't.

Salvage was simplified. And we petitioned and was granted ransom previlledges for captured mech pilots from the Clanners. Set at one tenth the cost of the mech he was piloting while captured.

After the first defeat, and I started to really knuckle down to try to win, even the Clanners said most of the remaining losses were just bad luck. In the second fight one of the Cauldron Born took out an undamaged Marauder II in one round by doing a death from above, damaging the Marauder's head for 5 points. Then he landed in front of the Marauder facing it. During the fire phase his last shot with the heavy medium lasers scored a head hit as well and 'capped it.

(Capping has become the jargon for being decapitated by weapons fire, usually from the large single hit weapons like the gauss rifle, autocannon 20 or the PPC)

Really good salvage there. For the bad guys.

Then there was the Black Mariah.

A Clanner Dire Wolf, S varient. One of the few jump capable 100 ton assault mechs that wasn't castrated in the process of making it jump capable. Sure sounds like something mean and gnarly you'ld want on your side.

Except it was real bad luck.

*I* captured it in a side battle where it had been 'capped by a gauss rifle hit. Woo Hoo! Free 100 ton assault mech!

Yeah. First fight against the Clan after refurbishment where it was going to be pivotal and it gets 'capped again by a gauss rifle. (See the pattern forming here?) and recaptured by the Clan.

It got 'capped an unbelievable third time and even though the Clan won that battle they intentionally left it on the field unsalvaged. (My guys role play well) I still have it as the "big dog" for my arty tanks. The arty tanks don't mind that the other mechs won't let it play in any of their reindeer games. They like having it around 'cause nobody shoots at them when its around.

(All the head shots were at a time when they was minimal damage otherwise)

One incident in the third battle, which had turned into a fighting retreat from some highlands down through a pass down to some low lands (duh), was in my favor.

I had to assign the least expensive of my remaining (in that battle) mechs to a "rear guard action". A 45 ton ShadowHawk with the cool shoulder mounted rotary autocannon (RAC) 5 was going to delay two and a half stars of blood crazed Clanners. The assignment even came with a promotion.

As the ShadowHawk stood its ground halfway down the pass only those mechs directly to the front could fire on him. When the end came for him he had just had his right leg blown off at the hip and had fallen to that side and a 100 ton Awesome was closing with him to get that adjacent hex bonus, even going as far as to not fire for one round so he could shoot him up close.
Since he had absolutely nothing to lose he spun the gun up to full capacity and let loose six rounds, (The greater the rate of fire, the greater the odds of a jam). Four rounds hit and even though the hits are rolled seperately three hit the Awesome in the head. Doing 15 points to a 12 point structure.

Not bad for a dying mech. Sadly the pilot didn't survive the very angry return volley

[BigDon]

And just because I feel like babbling:

We used the pilot doesn't automatically flee when ejected rule. The ejected pilot lands somewhere near and gets killed by incidental fire, forest fires, captured, picked up by friendlies or flees the map edge.

With so many things going seriously boom, even with the gentlemen's agreement not to intentionally target ejected pilots, they died about a third of the time. Not counting captured pilots. You capture a pilot by ending your movement in the same hex as an already moved pilot. I recall from a story from way back in the 80's that the systems by which enemy pilots were captured was an alternate use of the system designed to recover unconsious, wounded allied pilots without having to get out of the cockpit.

An illustration showed an oval shaped hatch opening in the leg of a mech and about 6 "Speed Racer-esque" segmented mechanical tenticles with those circular clamp hands cradleling an unconsous allied pilot and bringing him aboard a compartment in the leg where he is stabilized. Hostile pilots are narced unconsious by the med gear to keep them out of mischief.

We settled on an average ransom of one tenth the value of the mech he was piloting.

The only reason "capping" seemed common was the scale and frequency of the battles. Seven big battles in three weeks is only possible (by working folks) with something like megamek. In the fights since then we had a battle where there was not one but two "cascading engine failures". That's when the safeties fail on the mech's nuke plant as its destroyed. Doesn't happen often. The second blast occured on a board chock full of gnawed up mechs, armour and infantry both armored and naked.

A Dire Wolf blew its top doing a dying rear guard action. Had a blown out hip. So it was being swarmed by armor, infantry and wounded mechs. In a clearing about 8 hexes across, between hills on the right and heavy woods on the left. After the blast was resolved the only things still standing in the clearing was three smoking mechs. Looking all Elmer Fudd and scorched hard on one side.

[DyerWolf]

Don - your Navy just tested a new toy... LINK (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327205,00.html)

[RalofTyr]

Slaughtered an entire Clan mech unit and only lost 2 platoons?

Wow....I mean...wow.

I wish I thought of that against my players, who would only play the Clans because of their advanced abilities (they had power-ego issues).

[CodeSlinger]

Niiice... I'd read that the next generation of carriers are supposed to replace steam catapults with EM catapults. How about combining the two for dual-purpose carrier/battleship super-ships?

[Doodler]

Don - your Navy just tested a new toy... LINK (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327205,00.html)


And among the EVE players of the world, the Caldari were rejoicing. I'll take seven more of those and a battleship shaped like a Borg baseball bat...:dance:

[RalofTyr]

Caldari

They aren't half Finish, half Japanese are they?

[BigDon]

Doodler,

Some dweeboid is trying to tell me EVE is getting ready to shut down its servers and call it a day. If that's true, then aw shucks,

AND if its not true then:

(Keep in mind I haven't been to the EVE web site in months and have forgotten a lot of details)

This came up because I've been kicking around the idea of joining EVE, en masse, with my kids and about two or three friends as a group of allies. I wanted to ask you, the only EVE player I know of, what would be a rockin' combo of equipment, faction choice, and skill sets a a whole team of newbies should have to start with. (Not an order or anything. I just wanted you to think about it.

Heck, no reason we can't come in on whatever side you are on. I sure even you can use 4 or 5 people who you know won't try to kill you. (That MUST be rare for you)

[Doodler]

Doodler,

Some dweeboid is trying to tell me EVE is getting ready to shut down its servers and call it a day. If that's true, then aw shucks,

AND if its not true then:

(Keep in mind I haven't been to the EVE web site in months and have forgotten a lot of details)

This came up because I've been kicking around the idea of joining EVE, en masse, with my kids and about two or three friends as a group of allies. I wanted to ask you, the only EVE player I know of, what would be a rockin' combo of equipment, faction choice, and skill sets a a whole team of newbies should have to start with. (Not an order or anything. I just wanted you to think about it.

Heck, no reason we can't come in on whatever side you are on. I sure even you can use 4 or 5 people who you know won't try to kill you. (That MUST be rare for you)

Nah, I like people who shoot me, gives me something interesting to expend ammo against. :lol:

For the rumours, those are bovine byproduct. The number of players logged in simultaneously recently breached 50,000, and the average fluctuates between 25,000 and 40,000 depending on the time of week. There are more people playing now, and the averages just keep climbing.

Its not without its hiccups, but its stable, steady and driving on.

As for me, I'm no longer playing in empire space (the NPC empires players are a part of when they start), I managed to get myself into an alliance in 0.0 (no game provided security, player empire space) which promptly imploded while I was on vacation a couple weeks ago under the boot of Red Alliance. I'm currently tenanting in another empire's space rebuilding, with some of the members of the corporation I belong to, while we consider our options. There's just over 100 people in the corporation, with 10-20 on during the active periods with pretty good presence across all time zones (the CEO is something of a freelancer and is online constantly). I was given a limited diplomatic role to tap some of my contacts to set us up in Providence to get us back into 0.0, while the rest of us linger in empire space waiting for a door to open.

The primary character I'm using is just under 2 months from flying a carrier (I've got about 50 days of skill training time to try and get together the 700 million I'll need for Capital Ships and Caldari Carriers skill books), while my mining alt, which I had thrown a few odd skills at while pounding asteroids, now flies Covert Ops ships and Stealth Bombers.

Typically we don't take new players, the CEO is just that way, however, if you need a few pointers or some help getting started, I'd be happy to come back to empire for a week or two and help.

[RalofTyr]

Once, while playing battletech 3025, we where Davion units fighting against Wolf's Dragoons. We kept scoring head shots with our AC/20's to Natasha Kerensky's mech. Since she had to live to 3050, we just assumed she was very, very badly injured.

[korjik]

Once, while playing battletech 3025, we where Davion units fighting against Wolf's Dragoons. We kept scoring head shots with our AC/20's to Natasha Kerensky's mech. Since she had to live to 3050, we just assumed she was very, very badly injured.

Would you believe that I had the exact same thing happen? My brother with his bloody Victor, or was he still in a Hunchback at the time? Either way, he always has one of two modes when he has an AC/20. Either he can never hit with the thing (I have seen him empty both a Hunchback and a Victor in one battle and hit only once) or hit caps everybody he shoots at.

One time I had him go up against the 'Widow and her company with a group of newby mercs. He ended up mauling that thin skinned Warhammer and capped her, but we agreed to have him reroll that location.

He always has been a little irritating that way :)

[Doodler]

Did any of you ever get into Battlespace? With the re-entry of warships to the game, a friend of mine and I used to do some serious fleet battles and there would always be one or two fights that would have us laughing our butts off.

The one battle where we shot up two ships' ability to maneuver to the right, so we had a NASCAR battle, or the one where my Black Lion cruiser ended up with only reverse thrust.

I really liked the detailed crit system for their starships. Wish they'd have done more with it.

[RalofTyr]

Battlespace lead to my creation of a Battletech mass combat system using the same rules to convert fighter craft.

I purchased Battlespace, but nothing really came of it as V:tM was getting our player's interest. I saw it as a game in which I would really use Mercenaries and Mechwarror 2 into an effective RPG, but it never happened.