Pravda: Gagarin was not the first cosmonaut

[Larry Jacks]

Take this one with a big grain of salt.

Gagarin was not the first cosmonaut (http://english.pravda.ru/accidents/2001/04/12/3502.html) :

As 40 years have passed since Gagarin’s flight, new sensational details of this event were disclosed: Gagarin was not the first man to fly to space. Three Soviet pilots died in attempts to conquer space before Gagarin's famous space flight, Mikhail Rudenko, senior engineer-experimenter with Experimental Design Office 456 (located in Khimki, in the Moscow region) said on Thursday. According to Rudenko, spacecraft with pilots Ledovskikh, Shaborin and Mitkov at the controls were launched from the Kapustin Yar cosmodrome (in the Astrakhan region) in 1957, 1958 and 1959. "All three pilots died during the flights, and their names were never officially published," Rudenko said. He explained that all these pilots took part in so-called sub- orbital flights, i.e., their goal was not to orbit around the earth, which Gagarin later did, but make a parabola-shaped flight.

Color me skeptical. The Soviets launched Sputnik 1 and 2 in 1957. Sputnik 2 pretty well maxed out the R-7 booster. I doubt it had the capacity to carry a human. Sure, if they left off the upper stage, they might have the lifting capacity to carry a human on a suborbital flight but it's unlikely they had a vehicle ready.

[NEOWatcher]

Take this one with a big grain of salt.

Color me skeptical.
Me too, but more because the lack of details being presented.

The article talked about them being sub-orbital. I can see the Soviets rushing into a manned program as soon as hearing about the US plans.

Look at the difference between Redstone and Atlas, it doesn't take much to get a capsule up.

And; if there were two different design paths (one for orbital, and one for manned) to be later combined in an orbital manned flight, then the timing might not be that surprising.

[3rdvogon]

Color me skeptical. The Soviets launched Sputnik 1 and 2 in 1957. Sputnik 2 pretty well maxed out the R-7 booster. I doubt it had the capacity to carry a human. Sure, if they left off the upper stage, they might have the lifting capacity to carry a human on a suborbital flight but it's unlikely they had a vehicle ready.

Agreed the time frame does not make sense - This all sounds like yet another attempt to revive that urban myth that was around when I was a kid in the 1960s of stories of intercepted radio messages from stricken comonauts saying their rocket was now out of control and that they were going to crash- no hard evidence for which was ever produced. Of course back in those days nobody could understand how the USSR "appeared" to be so far ahead of the USA with every new manned spaceflight development (up until Apollo 8 flew). I think most people were convinced that they must have been in the game for much longer to have attained their lead and that they must have had some major failures which we had not heard of. For the first few years of their manned spaceflight programme the Soviets did take some big gambles just to maintain the propaganda image that they were way ahead and most of the time they got lucky but as we now know they could not do that when it came to going to the Moon, they simply were not able to produce a workable rocket for that goal.

[Ilya]

Pravda keeps living up to its name! :)

[Disinfo Agent]

After the fall of communism, I understand that Pravda morphed into a tabloid-style newspaper. If they were unreliable before, you can imagine now.

[Larry Jacks]

The Soviets entered the space race with a big advantage - their boosters were more powerful than ours. This is because the US found ways to shrink nuclear warheads in the 1950s that the Soviets didn't have. As a result, their R-7 ICBM was much more powerful than our Atlas and Titan I ICBMs. The R-7 ICBM was used for many early space shots (Sputnik 1 & 2, among others) and the father of many of their later boosters including the present day SL04 Soyuz and SL06 Molyniya.

The Soviets did take some big risks early in their space program. For example, they took a big risk with their first 3 man mission by leaving off the launch escape system. Fortunately, the mission was a success. They rushed the Soyuz 1 flight and ended up with a dead cosmonaut. They lost the crew of the first space station (Salyut 1) when the capsule depressurized during separation. The capsule was reportedly so cramped that they couldn't wear pressure suits with a 3 man crew.

Of course back in those days nobody could understand how the USSR "appeared" to be so far ahead of the USA with every new manned spaceflight development (up until Apollo 8 flew).

The US passed the Soviet Union during the Gemini missions. We were well ahead of them on important topics like rendezvous and docking, practical EVAs, and on-board technology such as a computer. The Soviets did accomplish many important things in space over the years. We should always give credit where credit is due.

[Ilya]

The Soviets did take some big risks early in their space program. For example, they took a big risk with their first 3 man mission by leaving off the launch escape system.

And spacesuits.

[NEOWatcher]

And spacesuits.
Uh... yeah... that was the last sentence of the paragraph. :p

[Larry Jacks]

Uh... yeah... that was the last sentence of the paragraph

Actually, that was two separate missions. I seem to recall video of the first 3 man mission wearing space suits but I many be remembering incorrectly. According to this article on the Voskhod (http://www.astronautix.com/flights/voskhod1.htm) (multi-passenger follow on to the Vostok):

Potentially dangerous modification of Vostok to upstage American Gemini flights; no spacesuits, ejection seats, or escape tower. One concession was backup solid retrorocket package mounted on nose of spacecraft. Seats mounted perpendicular to Vostok ejection seat position, so crew had to crane their necks to read instruments, still mounted in their original orientation.

The crew that flew to Salyut 1 used a Soyuz capsule. Different vehicle and crew.

[NEOWatcher]

Actually, that was two separate missions. I seem to recall video of the first 3 man mission wearing space suits but I many be remembering incorrectly.
That's how I read it. I'm not up on my Soviet space history, but I do clearly remember stuffing 3 cosmonauts without suits into a cramped capsule to beat the US.

[KaiYeves]

I don't think this is true, but seeing that thread heading made me go:
"What in the name of Phobos?"

[publiusr]

The Soviets entered the space race with a big advantage - their boosters were more powerful than ours. This is because the US found ways to shrink nuclear warheads in the 1950s that the Soviets didn't have. As a result, their R-7 ICBM was much more powerful than our Atlas and Titan I ICBMs. The R-7 ICBM was used for many early space shots (Sputnik 1 & 2, among others) and the father of many of their later boosters including the present day SL04 Soyuz and SL06 Molyniya.

The Soviets did take some big risks early in their space program. For example, they took a big risk with their first 3 man mission by leaving off the launch escape system. Fortunately, the mission was a success. They rushed the Soyuz 1 flight and ended up with a dead cosmonaut. They lost the crew of the first space station (Salyut 1) when the capsule depressurized during separation. The capsule was reportedly so cramped that they couldn't wear pressure suits with a 3 man crew.

Of course back in those days nobody could understand how the USSR "appeared" to be so far ahead of the USA with every new manned spaceflight development (up until Apollo 8 flew).

The US passed the Soviet Union during the Gemini missions. We were well ahead of them on important topics like rendezvous and docking, practical EVAs, and on-board technology such as a computer. The Soviets did accomplish many important things in space over the years. We should always give credit where credit is due.


Agreed. It isn't as if this story is against the laws of physics--but I think Oberg would have found out before now.

[Noclevername]

Ahh, Pravda. Dedicated to taking up where the Weekly World News left off.

[3rdvogon]

The US passed the Soviet Union during the Gemini missions. We were well ahead of them on important topics like rendezvous and docking, practical EVAs, and on-board technology such as a computer. The Soviets did accomplish many important things in space over the years. We should always give credit where credit is due.

Yes you are technically correct and those on the inside at NASA may have started to believe that they were getting ahead, though you are also applying a bit of hindsight.

At that time in the mid 60s those of us in the world at large were still being fooled by the fact that the Soviets did the first EVA (though they took a very big risk and it nearly went wrong with the cosmonaut needing to depressurise his suit to a dangerously low level to fit back inside the airlock - though of course we heard nothing of that at the time) and they had put three men in orbit before the USA had managed to send up two. To most people Apollo 8 was the first time when NASA demonstrated that they could do something that was obvious to the public which was beyond anything the Russians had done before.

[JustAFriend]

Three Soviet pilots died in attempts to conquer space before Gagarin's famous space flight, Mikhail Rudenko, senior engineer-experimenter with Experimental Design Office 456 (located in Khimki, in the Moscow region) said on Thursday. According to Rudenko, spacecraft with pilots Ledovskikh, Shaborin and Mitkov at the controls were launched from the Kapustin Yar cosmodrome (in the Astrakhan region) in 1957, 1958 and 1959. "All three pilots died during the flights, and their names were never officially published," Rudenko said. He explained that all these pilots took part in so-called sub- orbital flights, i.e., their goal was not to orbit around the earth, which Gagarin later did, but make a parabola-shaped flight.

Huh...

The old rumor I always heard was that the first cosmonaut was the son of a Russian jet designer, Vladimir Ilyushin. Stories were that he died, was critically injured or spent the rest of his life in an asylum.

Ah, heres a page on him: http://www.lostcosmonauts.com/ilyushin.htm

Of course in those days, EVERYTHING in the USSR was a state secret. And if anything happened to you, they just airbrushed you out of the old photos and pretended that you never existed.... so even guys who were hurt in standard flying accidents or training were "excised" from history.

[NEOWatcher]

Ah, heres a page on him:
Interesting site...
Here's the relevant page http://www.lostcosmonauts.com/unknown.htm

Who ever said Yuri was the first cosmonaut?
He was the first in space, and part of that statement is the implied "safely".
Aren't accomplishments measured mainly on successes?