Mecca time or GMT?

[Sticks]

Apologies if this violates the no religion rule, but this one was from the "Huh????" section and does kind of mention an astronomical measure sort of

From BBC News Online (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7359258.stm)

Muslim scientists and clerics have called for the adoption of Mecca time to replace GMT, arguing that the Saudi city is the true centre of the Earth.

It then mentions this

One geologist argued that unlike other longitudes, Mecca's was in perfect alignment to magnetic north.

I thought Magnetic North moved around and sometimes flipped.

Then it says

A prominent cleric, Sheikh Youssef al-Qaradawy, said modern science had at last provided evidence that Mecca was the true centre of the Earth; proof, he said, of the greatness of the Muslim "qibla" - the Arabic word for the direction Muslims turn to when they pray.


Where did they get that one?
:confused:

[Sticks]

I tried to post this in General Science but it would not let me

[Jens]

I wonder if they've studied geometry. It's pretty clear to me where the center of the earth is. Anyway, there's no such thing as the center of the surface of a sphere AFAIK.

[Vanamonde]

Mmmm, according to the Geological Survey of Canada, (http://gsc.nrcan.gc.ca/geomag/nmp/northpole_e.php) the most recent survey, completed in May, 2001, determined an updated position for the Pole and established that it is moving approximately northwest at 40 km per year. The observed position for 2001 is 81.3 N, 110.8 W and the most recent estimated positions for 2005 is 82.7° N 114.4° W. Also, daily(!), it dances within 80 km of this position but let us ignore that for now.

The 114th W medrian goes south through Canada, the U.S. and Mexico and then over sea until you get to the Antarctica. I think that Calgary, Alberta at 51°02'42"N 114°03'26"W, would be the best candidate for the center of the surface of the earth, if the criteria is a large city when magentic north equals "True North".

But, okay, the other medrian in the Eastern hemisphere is 66°E. But it goes by Kandahar, Afghanistan or Karachi, Pakistan! Mecca, Saudi Arabia is at 21°25'00" N 39°49'00" E - about 25 degrees of longitude from the 66th!

I can only conclude that Mecca as the center of the surface of the Earth is a spiritual belief, not one I share but as a Unitarian-Universalist, we do strive to respect all faiths.

My personal belief is this the center is 30.26°N, 97.75°W, as I live there in Austin, Texas.

I believe this phenomena is completely dependent on the observer.

Or as Buckaroo Banzai would say, "Wherever you go, there you are".

[DyerWolf]

SWEET! A Buckaroo Banzai reference! Kudos to you!

There is, and always has been, a strong trend among some islamic scholars to use science to 'prove' something they found in the Koran. The trick here, is that they are islamic scholars first and foremost. They find something intriguing in the Koran, and then look for something from the natural world to support the hypothesis, which 'proves' the truth of the prophet. I suspect any muslim scientist, who is a scientist first, or who is comfortable separating his / her religious belief from their scientific interest don't follow this prescription.

Christian scholars used to do the same thing. However, some time after this guy Copper-Nick (or something) the mainstream scholars in the West mostly abandoned this pursuit.

ID and Dark Matter proponents do the same thing today. They start with an 'immutable truth,' then come up with theories to support their belief - even in the absence of evidence.

The thing is, if the religious scholars wish to designate a time focused on Mecca as "zero" for their religious beliefs, there is no conflict with that system as applied to their religion (kind of like how the Chinese and Jewish calendars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar) are distinct from the 'Christian' calendar.)

Our designation of time and dates are abitrary.

[Frog march]

what I want to know is, if mankind does go to the stars, and Islam is still followed, which direction will Muslims face, while praying, in space, or on another planet?

I suppose, even a Muslim on the moon, will have to deal with this problem.

[Doodler]

So many possible answers, so many ways to trip the banhammer...:rolleyes:

Leavin' this one alone.

[KLIK]

It should stay as GMT.
Because Mr Greenwich invented time. or something......

[DyerWolf]

Well, you have to go back to the purpose of GMT in the first place: as an aid to navigation.

When English sailors wanted to know how far they'd travelled from home (and how much longer until they reached land) they had to use new fangled 'clocks' and 'chronometers' to help chart distance (i.e. when the sun rose - by knowing that the sun came up at 6:00 a.m. GMT, if they first sighted it at 8:00 GMT, they knew which longitude they were on...)

For the islamic scholar, knowing what time it is in Mecca may have some use (but I'd hate to have to time my prayers to Mecca when I'm half way around the world...).

Anyway, the subset of people likely to be affected by the change isn't likely to include most of the people on this board...

[ineluki]

I tried to post this in General Science but it would not let me

Must be the boards new AI science check...

[Neverfly]

My personal belief is this the center is 30.26°N, 97.75°W, as I live there in Austin, Texas.


This logic is faulty because Austin, Texas is creeping toward San Antonio in similar fashion to Dallas and Ft. Worth.

[Disinfo Agent]

The news article leaves one with too many unanswered questions. Why would Qatar use GMT? Surely that makes little sense in the Middle East...! :confused:

Who are they asking to switch from GMT to Mecca time?

[Kaptain K]

This logic is faulty because Austin, Texas is creeping toward San Antonio in similar fashion to Dallas and Ft. Worth.

You got that backwards, SA is creeping toward Austin! ;)

[mike alexander]

And due to plate motions Mecca is moving as well; it's not where it was 1,400 years ago.

But you don't have to look at just religious arguments from authority. The history of Soviet Russian agriculture under Lysenko, where 'Marxist' principles were applied to agriculture, was just as nutty.

As I recall, the question of prayer for Muslim space travelers (at least in orbit) has been addressed. The answer, quite reasonably, was that under such circumstances it is the thought that counts, not the facing direction.

[Sticks]

So many possible answers, so many ways to trip the banhammer...:rolleyes:

Leavin' this one alone.

I have no opinion on this one, it was just a huh??? where did that one come from.

I believe the French wanted to be the centre of time once, but were out voted in favour of Greenwhich

[Disinfo Agent]

I have no opinion on this one, it was just a huh??? where did that one come from.You're right to react with a "Huh?", the article is far too unclear.

I believe the French wanted to be the centre of time once, but were out voted in favour of GreenwhichVoted out? I wonder by whom. :D

[Lianachan]

Given that we live on the surface of, essentially, a sphere - what single point anywhere on the surface isn't "in perfect alignment with magnetic north"?

[tdvance]

Anything not on the unique great circle going through the poles and going through magnetic north.

[captain swoop]

Revolutionary France came up with a new clock and Calander but it didn't last long.

[KaiYeves]

Some Muslim astronauts have flown on the shuttle. They pray at specific times in a "day" on board agreed upon before launch. At least I think so. My teacher showed us an article about it.

[Lo'ihi]

Since GMT was devised by the then maritime superpower, it could be switched to PMT in a few decades. It may become the 'Mean' time to the letter, and any abberant needs to duck or get roasted.

[Kebsis]

The news article leaves one with too many unanswered questions. Why would Qatar use GMT? Surely that makes little sense in the Middle East...! :confused:

Who are they asking to switch from GMT to Mecca time?

Everyone, I think. They want Mecca's time to be the de facto time that other timezones are measured away from.

[RalofTyr]

They'd simply pray to this star in the Cassiopia Constellation when they colonize Alpha Centauri.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Sol_View_from_AlpCenA.png

I've been researching Islam as applied to the future of humanity, mostly for science fiction reasons.

[Chuck]

It's nice to have the international date line in the central Pacific where there are fewer people to be confused by it, so it's best to leave things as the are.

[Jens]

Personally I think it would be a good idea to just eliminate time zones. Just make a universal time, and people would wake up and go to sleep at different times of the day. In one place, noon might be at 4:00, and in another place at 14:40 or 18:26 or whatever. There would be no date line. You'd just have to know what time the sun rose, set, etc., in your place. I think it would be most fair to put the most natural one, with 12:00 being noon, at the latitude (say a strip 100 km east-west) with the largest population. I don't know where that would fall, but I guess it would be one of three places (a line running through Hong Kong and Java, a line running down the center of India, or a line running somewhere through Europe and then Africa).

[Frog march]

rather than get rid of time zones, I think it would be better if people, who needed to, just started thinking in terms of GMT as well as local time. Living in the UK, that is fairly easy. I don't know what that would be like in the US or Asia.

I know there was all that business swatch internet time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time), but I never really saw what was wrong with people, around the world just referring to GMT.


eta: maybe it would be a good idea for forums and blogs etc, to show BOTH local time and GMT, then people would get a better feel for it.

[Maksutov]

I like 00:00:00 always starting in the mid-Pacific.

[Maksutov]

[edit]Christian scholars used to do the same thing. However, some time after this guy Copper-Nick (or something) the mainstream scholars in the West mostly abandoned this pursuit....They're still doing that here in the Southern US.

[Stuart van Onselen]

IIRC, when the big international dust-up started over the 0deg longitude, everybody, including France, had their own, nationalistic suggestions. Every country was using its own sea-charts, all based on their own 0deg choice.

In the end, England won, not by bullying, or because they were the maritime power of the day, but because their charts were acknowleged to be the most accurate.

[Stuart van Onselen]

I just realised my answer addressed longtitude in navigation, whereas the OP is about time-zones. Of course, the two are interchangeable for the purposes of this discussion. 0deg longtitude = site of GMT

[Tog_]

rather than get rid of time zones, I think it would be better if people, who needed to, just started thinking in terms of GMT as well as local time. Living in the UK, that is fairly easy. I don't know what that would be like in the US or Asia.

I spend a lot of time playing an Online game, and we have people in our group from nearly every time zone in North America. I think we're missing one in the west, but I'm not sure which. We have a guy in Vancouver and one in Anchorage. On the other side, we have a guy in Newfoundland, and his "Atlantic Time" that most of us insist he made up as a joke.:lol:

Across the pond, there are a few in England, and one in Sweden. This gets fun when you try to schedule an event to meet somewhere at 8 PM. We've sort of centered on Eastern Time as our standard, but a lot of people still don't quite get the math, and require help in figuring out just when to show up.

As for the idea of Mecca Standard Time, I really don't see a point to it. Its just moving the "0" east a ways, and as others have pointed out, having the date line fall across as few landmasses as possible should be the biggest consideration.

As for it not affecting anyone, I beg to differ on that. If this change were made, all GPS navigation would have to change, as would every printed map that had Lat and Lon on it.

Every military weapons system would have to either stay old, or be upgraded. Targeting 4*43'56.7' east would mean some very bad things could happen to countries that really didn't see it coming, and the potential for error in giving the new weapons the new coords, and the old weapons the old ones would far too high.

Way too much hassle for the prestige of being the "middle".

[Jens]

rather than get rid of time zones, I think it would be better if people, who needed to, just started thinking in terms of GMT as well as local time. Living in the UK, that is fairly easy. I don't know what that would be like in the US or Asia.

Yes, living in the UK, I imagine it would be pretty easy. :rolleyes:

I think the proper way to think of it is to consider how you would react if the shoe were on the other foot, so to speak. How about if we all think in terms of local time and, say, Indian time. If you wouldn't mind, I suppose that others might not mind dealing in UK time. If it seems bothersome to you, then I suspect others would find it bothersome as well. How would you feel about thinking in terms of UK time and a hypothetically universal New Delhi time?

[Frog march]

well, I think about US-eastern time(roughly), which is 5hours behind UK(most of the time). I don't think it's too hard.

India is about 5 hours ahead, Japan about 8(?).

In the UK at the moment, we have British Summer time which is GMT+1

[hhEb09'1]

Voted out? I wonder by whom. :DThe International Meridian Conference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Meridian_Conference) in 1884, apparently.Anything not on the unique great circle going through the poles and going through magnetic north.That great circle doesn't go through the south magnetic pole though.

The magnetic field at the surface of the earth is not a simple dipole. I'm not sure what happens at Mecca. But we've discussed this before, I'll see if I can find it.

[mugaliens]

The idea of "Mecca time" is so out to lunch. "Perfect alignment with magnetic North?" So is Chicago, IL, so I propose Chicago time!

"arguing that the Saudi city is the true centre of the Earth."

Hmmm... Perhaps they don't understand the concept of a sphere... Perhaps they need to watch The Core and find out.

"A prominent cleric, Sheikh Youssef al-Qaradawy, said modern science had at last provided evidence that Mecca was the true centre of the Earth; proof, he said, of the greatness of the Muslim "qibla" - the Arabic word for the direction Muslims turn to when they pray."

I thought Muslims always faced Mecca when they prayed. Thus, if they were west of Mecca, they'd kneel facing East. If they're east, then they'd kneel facing west. But that only works if they're at the same latitude. If they're at a higher latitude, they're just as likely to wind up facing Greenwich!

What they really need is a GPS so they can find the great circle direction and REALLY face Mecca.

As for your other comments, Sticks, GPS wouldn't be affected, as it's a simple matter to reset the clocks in the satellites.

When English sailors wanted to know how far they'd travelled from home (and how much longer until they reached land) they had to use new fangled 'clocks' and 'chronometers' to help chart distance (i.e. when the sun rose - by knowing that the sun came up at 6:00 a.m. GMT, if they first sighted it at 8:00 GMT, they knew which longitude they were on...)

Actually, clocks aren't required to find longitude. A technique called lunar distance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_distance_%28navigation%29), which measures the difference in angle between the Moon and either a known star or the sun can be used to find longitude. But using an accurate clock, a celestial almanac, and sight reduction tables is easier and more accurate.

Back to the OP: I vote for GMT. If they want to adopt and use a different method for themselves, let them go through all the pain of trying to make it work and interface with the rest of modern society. But trying to force it on the rest of the world just because some cleric has it in his head that the idea is right (which it isn't, as Vanamonde made clear) is just plain wrong.

[Chuck]

If we got rid of time zones then the calendar date would change in the middle of the work day for some people. Of course, after the ozone layer is gone and we all live underground then our days need not be tied to the sun.

[Sticks]

At the risk of violating the politics and religion rules in one go - I dare say, when they hear of this, we might have some, who are not of Islam, telling us we must be PC and use Mecca time as well, so we do not offend Moslem's. Usually the same crowd that wants to rename Christmas celebrations as a mid winter festival for the same reason :wall:

Incidentally I get my Sea food pizza from a Halal fish and chip shop and he gets mystified by these people trying to "protect" his feelings :rolleyes:

I am ready to edit this post should it cause offence :shifty:

[Lianachan]

Anything not on the unique great circle going through the poles and going through magnetic north.

But that's not just "aligned with magnetic north" - that's also aligned with both poles.

[tdvance]

So, do people in, I don't know, somewhere in central or south America, face the ground when praying toward Mecca?

[hhEb09'1]

Anything not on the unique great circle going through the poles and going through magnetic north.But that's not just "aligned with magnetic north" - that's also aligned with both poles.Technically that should be "But that's not just 'not aligned with magnetic north'" :)

It appears that the whole concept is that of a coincidence of the direction of magnetic north and true north--zero declination, in other words. But as I pointed out earlier, points of zero declination do not necessarily lie on the meridian that contains the magnetic north pole.

[RalofTyr]

Now that I think about it, where Mecca is won't be important in the future. If you're living on Mars, a hostile environment, you probably don't have much time for religion.

[Lianachan]

So, do people in, I don't know, somewhere in central or south America, face the ground when praying toward Mecca?

No, the "straight line" is of course a curve over the surface. But if it's just between two points - magnetic north and Mecca, say - then it doesn't have to also pass through both poles.

[mike alexander]

It's just a little funny, just a little sad, grasping like that.

[yaohua2000]

Honestly, I am a supporter to the proposal.

In the Chinese calendar practice, the Beijing local time was used for calendar calculation from 15th century. Beijing local time is 14 minutes 26 seconds behind UTC+08:00. In 1928, Kuomintang (Chinese Nationalist Party) moved the capital from Beijing to Nanjing. Beijing's longitude is 116.4 degrees east, while the new capital Nanjing's longtitude is 118.8 degrees east, much closer to 120 degrees east, so the government decided to transfer the calendar calculation to be based on 120 degrees east in 1929. In 1949, The communists won the civil war and moved the capital back to Beijing, but they did not change it back. I guess the communists were mostly farmers then, they know nothing about astronomy.

Unlike Gregorian calendar, in which time zone is only affect time. It is critical to calendar calculation in Chinese calendar and also affect the date determine. Months start on new moon days in the Chinese calendar. So time zone difference could result of signifiant difference to the months' length and holiday's date. For example, new moon occurred at 1978-09-03 00:07 UTC+08:00. But it was 1978-09-02 23:53 Beijing local time then. Hong Kong was a British colony and did not affected by the capital moving, so they were still using the traditional Beijing local time zone to make calculation, their month started on September 2 but in mainland the month started on September 3. This result people in mainland China and Hong Kong celebrate Mid-Autumn Festival on different days. And besides, I suppose the Chinese New Year date should not have any relations with the geographical location of Greenwich.

[Disinfo Agent]

The International Meridian Conference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Meridian_Conference) in 1884, apparently.Thanks, but according to that page the French never "wanted to be the centre of time", and were not "voted out". It was the English who "wanted to be the centre of time", and they were voted in by "22–1 (San Domingo, now the Dominican Republic, voted against); France and Brazil abstained".

Here's another quote from the page, pertinent to this thread:

Resolution 4 expressly exempts standard time from the universal day. Although two delegates, including Sandford Fleming, proposed the adoption of standard time by all nations, other delegates objected, stating that it was outside the purview of the conference, so neither proposal was subjected to a vote. Thus the conference did not adopt any time zones, contrary to popular opinion.

[Lianachan]

Thanks, but according to that page the French never "wanted to be the centre of time", and were not "voted out". It was the English who "wanted to be the centre of time", and they were voted in by "22–1 (San Domingo, now the Dominican Republic, voted against); France and Brazil abstained".

Here's another quote from the page, pertinent to this thread:

[usual complaint]
I think you'll find it was the British, not the English.
[/usual complaint]

[Disinfo Agent]

I think you'll find that, in 1884, the English ran the show in the so-called British Empire.
Plus, Greenwich is in England.

[Lianachan]

I think you'll find that, in 1884, the English ran the show in the so-called British Empire.
Plus, Greenwich is in England.
So? It was still a "British" government and your use of the word "English" to describe it is inaccurate.

[Neverfly]

So? It was still a "British" government and your use of the word "English" to describe it is inaccurate.

To expand on this, there is more to Britain than just the English. There are the Scots, Welsh and Irish.

[Lianachan]

To expand on this, there is more to Britain than just the English. There are the Scots, Welsh and Irish.
I'm always highly disappointed to be still regularly having to point that out on this board, but will continue to do so. It's almost entirely, I think, down to a genuine ignorance of the nature of the UK/Britain/England.

[Disinfo Agent]

To expand on this, there is more to Britain than just the English. There are the Scots, Welsh and Irish.But the latter three nationalities have had historically friendlier relations with the French than the English. If there had been a rivalry, I'm sure it would have been between England and France.

[Lianachan]

But the latter three nationalities have had historically friendlier relations with the French than the English. If there had been a rivalry, I'm sure it would have been between England and France.

My reply in post 48 is, word for word, still good as a response to this too.

[RalofTyr]

I think you'll find that, in 1884, the English ran the show in the so-called British Empire.
Plus, Greenwich is in England.

So are you suggesting you need an Empire to have the timezone go through your nation?

So when Islam becomes a global empire, they can have the time zone run through Mecca.

PS, how many Americans wanted the time zone to run through Jeruselem?

What about Istanbul for Eastern Orthodox Chrisitans? What about Rome for Catholics? What about Salt Lake City for Mormons? The British, possessing for more common sense than most, decided to set the time zone in an obscure village few have heard of and religious wars to decided which holy city should have the timezone, fought between religious factions has been avoided.

[Disinfo Agent]

So are you suggesting you need an Empire to have the timezone go through your nation?Are you suggesting I wrote anything even remotely resembling that? :lol:

[hhEb09'1]

Thanks, but according to that page the French never "wanted to be the centre of time", and were not "voted out". It was the English who "wanted to be the centre of time", and they were voted in by "22–1 (San Domingo, now the Dominican Republic, voted against); France and Brazil abstained".That conference was the culmination of many meetings and studies, but it firmly established the system we use today. Even the conference proceedings show France still hanging on:I consider that we shall do a very important thing if we proclaim the
principle of the adoption of a meridian which shall be the same for
all nations.

The advantages of such a meridian have been felt by the geographers
and navigators of all ages. France might claim the honor of having
sought to accomplish this reform as early as the seventeenth century.
It is not to be expected, therefore, that France, at this late day,
will seek to place any obstacles in the way of the adoption of an
improvement which would by this time have been adopted if the use of
the meridian which she proposed, and which she had caused to be
generally accepted, had been continued.And they weren't pleased with the outcome, delaying adoption for a few years.

Here's an interesting comment from the proceedings:The inconvenience of east and west longitudes, which results from
having the prime meridian pass through a thickly populated portion of
the world, will be removed by reckoning the longitude continuously
from O° to 360°.O well! :)
To expand on this, there is more to Britain than just the English. There are the Scots, Welsh and Irish.The delegates to the conference included Great Britain representatives for Canada and India.

[Disinfo Agent]

Even the conference proceedings show France still hanging on:"Hanging on" to what? What does that quote have to do with anything?

And they weren't pleased with the outcome, delaying adoption for a few years.How do you know the delay was due to not being pleased with the outcome?

[hhEb09'1]

"Hanging on" to what?Hanging on to their own meridian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Meridian)

PS I read a book about this last year, and hang if I can remember the exact name of it to google it. It was not Longitude by Dava Sobel, I read that before.

[captain swoop]

Don't forget that at the sart of when British generals spoke of 'the Enemy' they meant the French.

[Maksutov]

That beefy guy Wellington pretty much baked Napoleon's cake in 1812, which was way before the conference.

[HenrikOlsen]

Funny how a thread that everyone is afraid might offend in a religious matter actually has as its main offense a careless use of English for British.
Anyway, as hhEb09'1 said, the record (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17759/17759-8.txt) shows that the relevant attendees were:

On behalf of Great Britain--

Captain Sir F. J. O. EVANS,
_Royal Navy_.

Prof. J. C. ADAMS,
_Director of the Cambridge Observatory_.

Lieut.-General STRACHEY,
_Member of the Council of India_.

Mr. SANDFORD FLEMING,
_Representing the Dominion of Canada_.

so definitely not England and they where not there for the English and with that, can we get back to the original discussion?

[Jens]

Honestly, I am a supporter to the proposal.

In the Chinese calendar practice [SNIP]

Do you mean that you support the adoption of Mecca as longitude 0? I'm not sure what relationship that has with the Chinese calendar.

[Sticks]

I suppose we now have official sanction to discuss this now the Phil has blogged about it (http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2008/04/24/mecca-lecca-no/)

[hhEb09'1]

I suppose we now have official sanction to discuss this now the Phil has blogged about it (http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2008/04/24/mecca-lecca-no/)There are different rules for the blog. They don't carry over to this board.

But I don't think we have too much to worry about, as long as we stay on track

[mahesh]

At the risk of violating the politics and religion rules in one go - I dare say, ......... :wall:

Incidentally I get my Sea food pizza from a Halal fish and chip shop and he gets mystified by these people trying to "protect" his feelings :rolleyes:

I am ready to edit this post should it cause offence :shifty:

Sticks, pray, what's a 'Halal' fish and chip shop?....never seen one here!

how strange! are the fish hung upside?

and sea food pizza too? eh? ...well i suppose.... :surprised when one has a 'tikka masala chicken' :doh:pizza....anything is possible

make mine of the moon! please

[Sticks]

Sticks, pray, what's a 'Halal' fish and chip shop?....never seen one here!

how strange! are the fish hung upside?


Here are some images of the place and the proprieter taken on my mobile

Halal means they do not use non Halal stuff in the cooking, and according to one Muslim I spoke to, Fish is classed as Halal

[drainbread]

Forget about all this "time zone" rubbish and whatnot, I suggest everybody adopt the "redneck time format".

Wake up time-
Breakfast time-
Lunch time-
Beer:30-
Supper time-
Bed time-

[Chuck]

Rather than change all of our literature, charts, and software it would be easier and less confusing to move Mecca to west Africa so that it's on the current prime meridian. They don't have to transplant the whole city all at once. Just put up a few buildings and name the place Mecca. Rename the current Mecca to Old Mecca. Then move important landmarks slowly over the next few decades.

[Disinfo Agent]

While they're at it, they could move Mecca to Greenwich. The pilgrims would appreciate the cooler climate, what with global warming and all.

[Chuck]

Or they could move Mecca to Antarctica, but well inland so it won't break off and drift away.

[Disinfo Agent]

But just think of all the profit that Greenwich could make from hosting the pilgrimages. :p

[ASEI]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

what I want to know is, if mankind does go to the stars, and Islam is still followed, which direction will Muslims face, while praying, in space, or on another planet?

I suppose, even a Muslim on the moon, will have to deal with this problem.
__________________

Hmm. If a muslim astronaut were on the ISS, completing one full rotation around the earth every 90 minutes, and is passing by Mecca from an altitude of 100km at an overland tangential distance of, oh, say 300km or so, what would his instantaneous angular rate of spin have to be to remain facing mecca? :-P

[Sticks]

I have been doing some digging and this (http://www.ukbingoonline.co.uk/uk-bingo/Mecca-Catford) seems to be the nearest Mecca to Greenwich

:whistle:

[Disinfo Agent]

The BA has post another blog entry (http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2008/04/24/mecca-lecca-no-part-2/) about this. Here's a quote from it:

After writing the previous article, I found this on the web: a post by Hell’s Handmaiden that contains a video with an interview of a Muslim "scientist". Warning: this may make your head explode.

This guy, Abd Al-Baset Sayyid (about whom I’ve written before) is spouting 100% pure unadulterated nonsense (and from this video it’s clear, as I said in the previous post, that it’s his stuff being talked about in the BBC article).