Maksutov-what I consider to be pseudoscience!

[Paul Leeks]

Hi Maksutov!!

what I consider to be pseudoscience is Psychology..it isn't real,it's just black and white generalisation( I studied it).There is a big difference between what happens in a "laboratory" and in reality.

scientific methodology is pseudoscience...quite often the logic doesn't fit the facts

and what I find hard to believe is how "rational" people can be so narrow-minded... I have a problem with debunkers.

LIFE ISN'T BLACK & WHITE...USE YOUR EXPERIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Paul Leeks

take care everyone,love from New Zealand

[hhEb09'1]

what I consider to be pseudoscience is Psychology..it isn't real,it's just black and white generalisation( I studied it).There is a big differece between what happens in a "laboratory" and in reality.Did you study Weber's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weber-Fechner_law)?scientific methodoogy is pseudoscience...quite often the logic doesn't fit the factsWhat scientific methodolgy is pseudoscience? All?and what I find hard to believe is how "rational" people can be so narrow-minded... I have a problem with debunkers.Debunkers of anything?

[Veeger]

LIFE ISN'T BLACK & WHITE...USE YOUR EXPERIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Experience is not always the best teacher and memory is even more unreliable.

One can have lots of experience doing the wrong thing.

[Maksutov]

Hi Maksutov!!Howdy![edit]scientific methodoogy is pseudoscience......Hey, thanks for the good chuckle!

That reminds me, I need to reread 1984. My Newspeak is getting a little rusty.

[pzkpfw]

USE YOUR EXPERIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you experienced levitation?



(Further:

Have you used your general experience of the world, to evaluate the claims of those who claim to be able to levitate?

)

[mike alexander]

Paul Leeks: You posted:
scientific methodology is pseudoscience...quite often the logic doesn't fit the facts

That needs some real hard 'splainin', pardner. Hint: this is at heart a scientific forum, and underneath the fooling around there are some diamond-hard minds hanging about, ready to tear you to shreads.

Having been through a dissertation defense in my youth I know how heartless these logicians can be.

Stand, and deliver.

[Paul Leeks]

NO!! I do not have direct experience of Levitation,but I know the phenomenon exist throughout history,like I say I goto the yoga centre & people have witnessed this kind of thing in India.

I think psychokinesis and levitation are kind of related

mind is energy,matter is energy,the connection is thought energy( I hope I not giving you a headache

PK can be spontaneous or deliberate.I know a guy that can roll a cigarette across a table just by looking at it..he told me it happens when you and the object are "one" (meditative)it took him 18 years before anything happened..he said "you simply block everything out" ,amazing to watch.His name is William Harrison and he was an NZ Kiwi(Rugby League) and played softball for NZ as well..it's not a trick.

and Matsutov read 1984 you'll like it!! Big Brother (George Bush and his thought police) is watching you!!

Paul L(NZ)

[sarongsong]

...what I consider to be pseudoscience is Psychology..it isn't real...Do you know anyone who doesn't practice it? :)

[hhEb09'1]

I'm sorry, if I'd known this thread was about levitation, I wouldn't have butted in. :) (http://onwww.net/unstress4less.org/Transcendental_Meditation-myths.htm)

[Maksutov]

and Matsutov read 1984 you'll like it!!... [posted prior to the above quote] That reminds me, I need to reread 1984. My Newspeak is getting a little rusty.I'm sorry, if I'd known this thread was about levitation, I wouldn't have butted in. :) (http://onwww.net/unstress4less.org/Transcendental_Meditation-myths.htm) I find it's more about levity than levitation. http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/4879/iconbiggrin1kg.gif

Nice work hiding the link in the smilie, BTW. Almost mystical.

[Jeff Root]

Hi! I'm incredibly stupid. I look at an apple and I know it is really a
parsnip because that makes so much more sense! I know what is real
and what isn't real because I am open to the vibes. Never trust an
expert. Experts are ALWAYS WRONG about EVERYTHING!!!!! See ya!

-- Yertle the Turtle

[mike alexander]

I think psychokinesis and levitation are kind of related

Ah, I agree! Two more paradoxical members of the empty set.

[pzkpfw]

Background:

scientific methodology is pseudoscience...

USE YOUR EXPERIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO!! I do not have direct experience of Levitation

Claims:

...but I know the phenomenon [levitation] exist throughout history

...a guy that can roll a cigarette across a table just by looking at it...

Questions:

1. What would you call "science", given you think the scientific method is "pseudo science"?

2. How would you (or could you) prove your claims to us?

3. Do you understand that "someone told me" and "I saw it on a web page" is not sufficient evidence?

Example:

In a previous thread you stated:

besides whan was the last time you felt elated...and felt light...??

Would you accept standing on scales while trying to acheive this feeling of lightness, to see if there is any difference in your weight, as a "test"?

That is, how would you prove that this feeling is evidence of levitation, and not just an emotional response?

[Van Rijn]

PK can be spontaneous or deliberate.I know a guy that can roll a cigarette across a table just by looking at it. .he told me it happens when you and the object are "one" (meditative)it took him 18 years before anything happened..he said "you simply block everything out" ,amazing to watch.His name is William Harrison and he was an NZ Kiwi(Rugby League) and played softball for NZ as well..it's not a trick.


What's your background that you can be so certain in that statement? I know a few approaches to the PK cigarette trick, and I expect a decent magician could think of more.

Just curious, did he supply the cigarette, or ever get within a couple meters of the cigarette or table before or during his performance?

[mfumbesi]

Paul Leeks is such a strong and likable name, I get drawn to all your post just by your name.
I clicked and ..... hilarity ensured.

[mahesh]

.......
Would you accept standing on scales while trying to acheive this feeling of lightness, to see if there is any difference in your weight, as a "test"?

That is, how would you prove that this feeling is evidence of levitation, and not just an emotional response?

and particularly in an elevator going down...........you'd be levitated by the levity of it all

[mahesh]

I find it's more about levity than levitation. http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/4879/iconbiggrin1kg.gif

Nice work hiding the link in the smilie, BTW. Almost mystical.
you recognize a nice a steganographer, Mak!

[farmerjumperdon]

PK can be spontaneous or deliberate.I know a guy that can roll a cigarette across a table just by looking at it..he told me it happens when you and the object are "one" (meditative)it took him 18 years before anything happened..he said "you simply block everything out" ,amazing to watch.His name is William Harrison and he was an NZ Kiwi(Rugby League) and played softball for NZ as well..it's not a trick.

and Matsutov read 1984 you'll like it!! Big Brother (George Bush and his thought police) is watching you!!

Paul L(NZ)

Yes Grasshopper, you must be one with the cigarette.

Will everybody who believes in psychokinesis please raise my hand?

BTW, were you watching him try for 18 years? Or is that just a line you bought; along with the hook & sinker?

[captain swoop]

I don't roll my own cigarettes but my brother does.

[Argos]

Psychology is a science in the sense that it is a body of knowledge, and uses a method. But, based on anedoctal evidence and my loose observation, it seems to fail when their general assumptions are applied to a single individual. It is surely a descriptive science, but I doubt it can really make accurate predictions.

[grant hutchison]

PK can be spontaneous or deliberate.I know a guy that can roll a cigarette across a table just by looking at it..he told me it happens when you and the object are "one" (meditative)it took him 18 years before anything happened..he said "you simply block everything out" ,amazing to watch.His name is William Harrison and he was an NZ Kiwi(Rugby League) and played softball for NZ as well..it's not a trick.By an odd coincidence, the "telekinetically rolled cigarette" was a party trick for the entire university rugby team when I was a student.
They'd do it in synch: a row of guys, a row of tables, a row of cigarettes on the tables. It was a joy to observe.

Grant Hutchison

[Paul Leeks]

no it's no trick

he studied tibetan buddhism...and I know he is telling the truth..it's without conscious effort.

reminds me I learnt a saying this morning,in a book on proverbs:

"He who is near to the truth will have sand kicked in his face"

I can add that to my experience...why because it's true

I am fed up with "scientific " idiots

Paul L

[PetersCreek]

I wish you luck in finding a class of idiots more to your liking. :whistle:

[Van Rijn]

no it's no trick


See my questions here:

http://www.bautforum.com/1259977-post14.html

Nobody has ever been shown to do PK under properly controlled conditions. On the other hand, PK cigarette tricks are extremely popular. And, you don't seem willing to discuss what he actually did, or how you judged this.

[Jeff Root]

Whatever I believe is true! Because whatever is true, I believe!
And I know what I believe because I experience it. I experience
it because I believe it. If it wasn't believed, how could it be
experienced? It couldn't! So it has to be believed! That's real
science!

Besides, stupid people are smarter than intelligent people, and
ignorant people know more than educated people. That's obvious
to anyone who thinks the way I do!

-- Bugs Bunny

[Paul Leeks]

the table was fixed to the ground,it was only me and him,I brought the cigarettes from a shop and he was into meditation.

I get into meditation..( I goto the yoga centre)I have had experience with ESP and OBE(spontaneous)

spontaneous OBE,ESP,PK have same thing in common...WITHOUT CONSCIOUS EFFORT

Everyone has latent abilities

OBE is dangerous....if not careful you will be found dead of unknown causes!(Astral projection,soul travel)

Paul Leeks

OBTW: go to Google and type in Paul Leeks, Colin Macgregor...it comes up with "chapter 2, on the job" it's about as astral travelling "ghost agent" named Paul Leeks! I never wote this,white wolf publishing has something to do with it

OBE's are extraordinary..the moment you panic you "snap back".My experience was involuntary, you also have 360 degree spiritual vision. I do not recommend conscious astral projection you could end up literally as a "lost soul"

the body is the vehicle, "YOU" are the driver,thought is the energy(and intention)
At the moment I am studying telepathic hypnosis which the Russians have had success with.

Paul L(NZ)

oh well have fun!!

[captain swoop]

Since when have Tibetan Buddhists been flying around the countryside? If they could they would be able to get past the guards.

[Van Rijn]

the table was fixed to the ground


That suggests he was close to the table. How far away was he from the table? Also, did he ever come in direct contact with the cigarettes?

[Maksutov]

reminds me I learnt a saying this morning,in a book on proverbs:

"He who is near to the truth will have sand kicked in his face"...My book of proverbs has that as

"He who frequents the shoreline and approaches a net weight of ninety-eight pounds shall have grains of silica propelled into the front of his head by large, muscular human feet."

:)

[pzkpfw]

That suggests he was close to the table. How far away was he from the table? Also, did he ever come in direct contact with the cigarettes?

...and has he done it with a sheet of glass between him and the cigarette?

...or two cigarettes next to each other but he "chooses" which one moves?

[Kaptain K]

I am fed up with "scientific " idiots
ad homs are a bannable offense!

[sarongsong]

Too bad misspelling isn't. :)

[Kaptain K]

Too bad misspelling isn't. :)

Better?

Assuming you're talking to me!

[Occam]

Hi guys, when dealing with this guy, please remember that here in new Zealand we live in an environment where lots of things don't make any kind of sense:
Government policies
Criminal sentencing
Police actions
The price of cheese

I could go on and on (and have been known to).

Naturally, in this environment, it takes a special effort to grasp that some things (like scientific methodology) actually do follow definite rules, and that truth is truth, no matter how uncomfortable we may be with it.
:D

[ineluki]

I am fed up with "scientific " idiots

Simple solution

Don't post anything here, go to http://www.godlikeproductions.com instead.

[HenrikOlsen]

ad homs are a bannable offense!
as are speculation and/or threats regarding the bannability of other's posts.
If you think it's an ad-hom either address it as a fallacy or report it, do not talk about anyone getting banned for it.

[Kaptain K]

My bad. Sorry! :(

[eburacum45]

James Randi has exposed the cigarette trick on occasion;
http://www.adam.com.au/bstett/SkepticsAdams1.htm

It does seem a bit obvious, but the flim flam about Tibet or whatever might be a form of misdirection.

[Maksutov]

[edit]It does seem a bit obvious, but the flim flam about Tibet or whatever might be a form of misdirection.Good magicians typically have a "cover" story. ;)

[Van Rijn]

James Randi has exposed the cigarette trick on occasion;
http://www.adam.com.au/bstett/SkepticsAdams1.htm


That's one of the ways I thought of doing the trick. Paul, I'd still like to know how close William Harrison was to the table and cigarette, and if he ever touched the cigarette.

[Van Rijn]

Good magicians typically have a "cover" story. ;)

Most magicians have a cover story. It's part of the show. The claimed psychic Uri Geller (who was shown to be using tricks) had cover stories. Paul's story reminds me a great deal of people who were taken in by Geller. As with Paul, there were people who wanted to believe, and took what the "psychic" said at face value.