Family Names Question

[DyerWolf]

In English, many of our family names relate to occupations (i.e. Chandler, Cooper, Dyer, Fletcher, Miller, Smith, Tanner, Wainwright, etc.).

How far does this convention extend throughout the world?

I'm pretty sure that many European languages have similar family naming conventions.

Does Russian? Any of the Chinese or Indian languages? Arabic?

[Jens]

Great question, and one I'd be interested in as well. I'll try to give some answer about Japanese, but I haven't really gotten my thoughts completely together.

First, I do know a couple of people named "Kaji", which means "smith". So it does exist. But it is rare. Most family names in Japan are from locations, and there is a historical reason. People in Japan (outside of the nobility) did not have family names until the end of the Edo Period. And when the Shogunate decided to give people last names, the same name was taken by all people in one hamlet. So usually it was like Yamada (the rice fields near the mountain) or Yamamoto (at the base of the mountain).

Chinese will require another note. I hope people can give some explanations of other places.

[Jens]

By the way, here (http://www.mayrand.org/meaning-e.htm)is a pretty interesting resource on the question.

[Moose]

I've seen some claims that my family's name may have evolved from names in the form "Moose of Location". If true, that would basically suggest my family had been in the upper classes, possibly minor nobility. [Edit: Sorry, I should mention my name is of French origin.]

I personally think those claims were a stretch.

It's also possible that my last name suggested an occupation, and would translate (very) loosely to something like "Smith" or "Spiker". But that's stretching a bit, too.

Modern French-Canadian names don't often translate directly to occupations like they do in English, but there are occasional similarities that suggest some occasional influences. "Bélanger/boulanger(baker)", "Boucher(butcher)", "Bergeron/Berger(shepherd)"

Short answer: beats me.

[Argos]

Mediterranean peoples have these kinds of names.

E.g: Ferreira, Ferrera, Herrera [blacksmith], Sapateiro, Zapatero [Shoemaker], Armador [ship builder], Guerreiro, Guerrero [warrior], etc.

[chrissy]

Also here in the UK they use place names too for surnames, I know that as my family name is a place name in Yorkshire. ;)

[Whirlpool]

Here , our family names are a influenced by the Spanish Era, Chinese , Malays, Americans during the colonization and WW times.

Spanish - Mercado, Guttierrez, Valencia, Franco
Chinese - Uy, Tan, Sy, Ong

to name a few..

[Jason]

Dutch family names can tend towards places Van de Berg (from the mountain), Van der Zee (from the Sea), Osterwoud (East wood), etc. I've also seen "joke" names - like Goedkoop (cheap).
My own family name is a Frisian mutation of the Latin Posthumus, meaning roughtly "someone who's father died before they were born". It's a quite common name in the northern Netherlands, but quite uncommon here in the U.S.

[jrkeller]

In German many names indicate a positon/job.

Muller = Miller
Weber = Weaver
Bauer = Farmer
Zimmerman = room man
Graf = count

Others probably give an indication of a positon/job.

Keller = Celler
Adler = Eagle
Vogel = Bird
Stiefel = Boot
Schwarzkopf = black head

Other I've got no clue like,

Lange = long

[hhEb09'1]

Dutch family names can tend towards places English names aren't all occupations. Hill, I think, isn't, nor Johnson, Jones, White, Green, or Friday.

My Dad's name was Polish for milkman, though.

[Gillianren]

I read somewhere--I wish I could remember where--that German Jews were at one point forced to buy last names. Those who could afford it got good ones. Those that couldn't . . . are part of the reason there's so many Smiths in the US; they weren't forcibly changed, but given the opportunity to have a better name, a lot of people took advantage of it.

[antoniseb]

I asked the students in my class what their names mean.
The two from India said that their last name meant "person from [region]", but that there are a lot of people especially in the Tamil regions whose last name is the Hindi or Tamil word for blacksmith. The Chinese fellow said his last name meant Field. The Swedish ancestory guy's name means "Little Hills". The Irish guy's name is Higgins, which means Son of Hugh.

[mugaliens]

Clint Osteroud: "Goo ahade, make muu deeya."

My family names stem from two sources.

One is the old "son of" approach, like "Davidson," which means "son of David."

The other is ... (ttthtthhthhthhthhthht (drum roll) thhthhthhthhthh CRASH!!!) another take on the old "son of" approach, but this time with Mac, which is a Gaelic surname prefix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Gaelic_personal_naming_system)for "son." Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that, hence the link, but you get the general idea.

[Lianachan]

In Scotland (and Ireland), the "Mac"/"Mc" surnames of course mean "Son Of".

Other Scottish (Highland, anyway) surnames are descriptive.

[Argos]

It´s interesting that, at least for the Spanish and Portuguese, old Jewish and Arabic names got changed when those peoples converted to Christianity on account of persecutions and other factors, in the late middle age. A telltale sign of converted families are names of trees and things, like Carvalho [redwood], Oliveira, Olivera [olive tree], Pinheiro [pine tree], Portal [gate], Castanha, Castaña, Castañeda [chestnut tree], etc.

Edit: Thanks Gillian. :)

[Graybeard6]

I know French and Polish surnames can be occupational; mine is an anglesized version of "Parmentier" (cloak maker) and my wife's maiden name is Polish for "carpenter".
I don't remember exactly when, but a Holy Roman Emperor (three lies for the price of one) decreed that all Jews must take German surnames, but they couldn't be actual names. Therefore, we see names like "Kirschstein" (cherry stone), "Geldwasser" (goldwater) und so wieder. Slavic Jews seem to have adopted the custom of the country, e.g. "Rabbinowitz", "Simonovitch".

[Kaptain K]

My surname is German and is derived from the German word for "barrel maker". My first name is the German equivalent of a common English name.

[Frantic Freddie]

My last name is the same as a small English town,but there's never been anyone from that town with that name.

[mike alexander]

No idea. Before Immigration (ca. 1890?) it was Shondor (or Sondor). There were Popoczys, Fedors and Kadars as well. My grandmother thought she was distantly related to Janos Kadar and wanted to keep it that way.

[Senor Molinero]

Well, this thread fits right in with MY nom-de-plume. Can you devine my real surname?

[Tog_]

My last name, if the stories are true, is as American as it's possible to be.

All records stop at Ellis Island. The family researcher has come to the conclusion that the original name was Gaelic and that the person filling out the form made the best phonetic guess they could, and a new bloodline was born from a mass of red tape.

No idea if it's true.

[Lianachan]

My last name, if the stories are true, is as American as it's possible to be.

All records stop at Ellis Island. The family researcher has come to the conclusion that the original name was Gaelic and that the person filling out the form made the best phonetic guess they could, and a new bloodline was born from a mass of red tape.

No idea if it's true.

You could try asking somebody with a knowledge of Gaelic names?

:)

[Tog_]

I had an uncle that tracked it back as far as he could. His checking led him to Scotland, but everyone else in the family said Ireland. He actually went to both countries before hitting the wall. If everything I was told is true (yeah...), the first part of the family arrived and the name couldn't be written in New Yorkese, so the clerk changed the spelling. Then, people would say it the way it was spelled, rather than how it should have been said. This led to both the spelling and the pronunciation being different from the original to the point that a lot of people think it's Italian.

[Lianachan]

I had an uncle that tracked it back as far as he could. His checking led him to Scotland, but everyone else in the family said Ireland. He actually went to both countries before hitting the wall. If everything I was told is true (yeah...), the first part of the family arrived and the name couldn't be written in New Yorkese, so the clerk changed the spelling. Then, people would say it the way it was spelled, rather than how it should have been said. This led to both the spelling and the pronunciation being different from the original to the point that a lot of people think it's Italian.

I'd be glad to see what I know/can find out about it if you PM me the details. The history and development of Gaelic names (especially placenames, but also surnames) is a bit of a speciality of mine.

[jokergirl]

My last name is Czech and the name of a bird.
There are a lot of bird and other animal names in Czechian, but also Hungarian and Yugoslavian last names. The online ancestry sites don't tell you this, but those names all started to pop up sometime during the 30 year war. They are with high likelyhood soldier names - say you have three people called Frantisek in your regiment, so you'll call one Rooster, one Sparrow and one Pigeon instead. Some survive to come home and build families, but keep their war name.
I've heard the tradition was started by the French - they had a regiment of vegetables some time ago.

;)

[mfumbesi]

....they had a regiment of vegetables some time ago.
Ahem, I truly want to believe you, but vegetables are not known for their sword wielding 'what the word'.

[Lianachan]

Ahem, I truly want to believe you, but vegetables are not known for their sword wielding 'what the word'.

Where do you think asparagus spears come from?

[Argos]

Well, this thread fits right in with MY nom-de-plume. Can you devine my real surname?

Well, yes, Mr. Molinero, I´d say it derives from someone working at a mill [a Miller] :)

[Ivan Viehoff]

My last name is Czech and the name of a bird.
There are a lot of bird and other animal names in Czech...
Indeed, but rather more curious are large number of names which come from verbs and adjectives, and often a little amusing. The verbs are usually in the past tense, which means they generally end in -l (male) or -lova (female). My other half's name is Koukalova, from koukal "peeped". Martina Navratilova's name comes from navratil, which can mean, among other things, "returned" (ie sent something back), rather appropriate for a tennis player. A friend is Dohnalova, from dohnal "compelled".

Among adjectives, Mrtvy (dead) is a reasonably common Czech name. Some in-laws are called Konecny, which is similar, meaning "final".

Colours aside, which are common, adjectives are unusual but do occur in English. They often seem to be unkind, as in Eric Idle and James Blunt. But I have met a Mr Happy.

And finally, in the village where my parents live the butcher is called Mr Baker, and the builder is Mr Farmer.

My own name is German, being Cattle-hall.

[DyerWolf]

One of my favorite names: Cabeza de Vaca (aka "Head of Cow").

[Lianachan]

One of my favorite names: Cabeza de Vaca (aka "Head of Cow").

The name Kennedy means "ugly head".

[Nerthus]

I heard once before that my last name, Krentzel (which is German), means sorcerer. I haven't found anything to corroborate this though, as it is a very rare name, but it's interesting.

My first name, Dallas, means "of the Dales", and dales of course are valleys, so I am a sorcerer of the valleys.

[tlbs101]

My ancestors are from Britain, and my surname is 'son-of-money'. Not the occupation of exchequer or one who worked in that office, but simply 'pounds' , so my ancestors must have been rich.

I'm still waiting for my inheritance, lol!


The source for a lot of given names is the Bible (as is mine -- one of the 12 apostles).

.

[HenrikOlsen]

Previously (male)names in Denmark tended to be of the form <name> <fathersname>sen / <father or mothersname>datter for women, often "<name> <fathersname>sen <othername>", where <othername> could be related to a place/farm/occupation or reused in the family for a couple of generations.

With the law on names from 1828, it became the law that everyone should have a family name and that it should either be the -sen name or the <othername>, which explains the current proliferation of -sen names now.

[Lianachan]

Previously (male)names in Denmark tended to be of the form <name> <fathersname>sen / <father or mothersname>datter for women, often "<name> <fathersname>sen <othername>", where <othername> could be related to a place/farm/occupation or reused in the family for a couple of generations.

With the law on names from 1828, it became the law that everyone should have a family name and that it should either be the -sen name or the <othername>, which explains the current proliferation of -sen names now.

Now that is interesting. I spotted a <someones>dottir name in the credits of a DVD the other night, and I pointed it out to my wife as a rare name, saying that the <someones>sen/son names are far more common. It had never even occured to me to try to find out why. The ~dottir spelling is Icelandic, is it? Iceland, of course, was run by Denmark until independence - would it have been subject to that law too?

[Veeger]

Family names become corrupted over a couple hundred years. I am vaguely certain my original family name was of Scottish (perhaps Irish) origin. Yet, it has been corrupted into an English surname (named for a village in Lincolnshire). There are several ways this could have happened: one of my ancestors could have changed it to hide the fact he was Scottish or Irish (late 1600's mid 1700s) or it simply became corrupted by census takers, enumerators, etc. because people with the english surname were always nearby and the our original surname sounded similar though it was spelled completely differently.

[Kaptain K]

My last name is the same as a small English town,but there's never been anyone from that town with that name.

My last name is the same as a small town in Iowa. It's where my ancestors ended up after they immigrated to this country in the 1880s. The town was named for my family, not the other way around.

[Lianachan]

I am vaguely certain my original family name was of Scottish (perhaps Irish) origin. Yet, it has been corrupted into an English surname (named for a village in Lincolnshire).
PM me the details if you like.

EDIT - In fact, anybody who thinks their name may be Scottish in origin - feel free to PM me, and I'll tell you what I know about the name, or work out any likely Scottish root.

[davidlpf]

My lastname means someone with a sunny personality, man whatever gene that was responsible for that has been lost. The only thing is I once saw a web page it said it could English or Scottish.

[Ivan Viehoff]

Now that is interesting. I spotted a <someones>dottir name in the credits of a DVD the other night, and I pointed it out to my wife as a rare name, saying that the <someones>sen/son names are far more common. It had never even occured to me to try to find out why. The ~dottir spelling is Icelandic, is it? Iceland, of course, was run by Denmark until independence - would it have been subject to that law too?
Iceland mainly uses a patronymic naming system. So if Vilhjalmur Jonsson (William Johnson) marries Kristin Grimsdottir (Christine Grimsdaughter), his wife will retain her name on marriage; their son Pall will be Pall Vilhjalmsson (Paul Williamson) and their daughter Bergthora will be Bergthora Vilhjalmsdottir (Bergthora Williamsdaughter). So all 4 of them have different "second names". In any Icelandic directory, they will be given in alphabetical order by their first name. Where a father's name is not admitted for a child, sometimes they are called eg Hansson (literally his son), but more often these days they can be given the mother's name (eg Kristinsson).

The insistence of the rest of the world in trying to treat the patronymic as their "main" name is something Icelanders just have to put up with. Bjork's full name is Bjork Gudhmundsdottir, and addressing her as Bjork rather than Ms Gudhmundsdottir is entirely natural in Iceland. Her first name is her true given name, not a stage name. It is fairly common, meaning birch.

Fortunately, Icelanders have a large number of first names to choose from (all those Norse myths and sagas), so quite a lot of the 300,000 or so of them have names that are not too common. But some names are common. The present popularity of middle names helps cut down the number of plain Jon Jonssons. It is common to talk about someone in firstname+middlename format. The middle name sometimes gets used for the patronymic of the children. The current president is Olafur Ragnar Grimsson; Olafur and Grimur are both common names. They also sometimes add a grandfather's patronymic on the end to reduce confusion. But contributing to the confusion is the popularity of retaining names in families. For example the first president of Iceland was Asgeir Asgeirsson; the current major of Reykjavik is Vilhjalmur Vilhjalmsson; and the father and son team who set up the Baugur business empire (which owns a lot of British high street retailers) are Johannes Jonsson and Jon Asgeir Johannesson.

I say "mainly", because about 5% of native Icelanders have surnames, as for example did their nobel prizewinning writer Halldor Kiljan Laxness. In fact he was born Halldor Gudhjonsson, and was brought up at Laxnes (ie Salmon Point), adopting his name at the time of his (Catholic) confirmation. The Icelandic government discourages surnames on the grounds of avoiding social distinction, and what Halldor did is now illegal; you can only keep a surname through inheritance, and they'd prefer you to lose it. People applying for Icelandic citizenship are mostly required to adopt an Icelandic name, though exceptions are occasionally made, notably for Vladimir Ashkenazy and Bobby Fischer.

[slang]

I seem to remember from my history lessons that at one point, here in the Netherlands, the residents were forced by Napoleon to choose and use surnames. I am unsure if that was for everyone or just those that didnt use surnames yet. It is sometimes cited here as an explanation for strange surnames, people would pick the first thing they could think of. What I just said may well be urban myth, I cannot support it, and don't really care to either :)

edit: did I just pass minipi?

[Trebuchet]

Previously (male)names in Denmark tended to be of the form <name> <fathersname>sen / <father or mothersname>datter for women, often "<name> <fathersname>sen <othername>", where <othername> could be related to a place/farm/occupation or reused in the family for a couple of generations.

With the law on names from 1828, it became the law that everyone should have a family name and that it should either be the -sen name or the <othername>, which explains the current proliferation of -sen names now.

I'm surprised that law was that early.
My Danish great-grandfather was Poul Wilhelm Pedersen when he left Denmark, but somehow became William Peterson when he lived in Kansas. His father was Peder Rasmussen, whose father was Rasmus Pedersen, whose father was Peder Rasmussen. William/Wilhelm was born in 1868, his father in 1831.

His mother was Katrine Andersen, who of course married Peder Rasmussen. But when my ggf brought her over here, late in life, to look after his children when his wife died, she became known as Kathrine Peterson.

[HenrikOlsen]

That was the date of the first of many naming laws, it was generally disliked and people worked around it as much as possible.
Perhaps I should have mentioned one of the later ones that actually worked:)

[drainbread]

York(maternal grandmother), Harader(maternal grandfather) and Roper(paternal grandfather), my paternal grandmother was native american.

York is the only family line I have any real contact with as my father was adopted by his step father(Brown) and I only met my maternal grandfather twice.

York is also the only one I can figure out.

[HenrikOlsen]

Roper looks like another occupation name, ie. a maker of rope.
As for the Harader name I found this link (http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~farmerie/ullrich/Harader.htm).
Note that it refers to names written before they invented spelling:) so difference should be expected.

[drainbread]

Roper looks like another occupation name, ie. a maker of rope.
As for the Harader name I found this link (http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~farmerie/ullrich/Harader.htm).
Note that it refers to names written before they invented spelling:) so difference should be expected.

I know I can find out about Harader fairly easy, my mom has a family tree that goes back quite a way...


But York, that line(not the name, just the line) has been traced back to around 900 A.D. and there are a few interesing entries.

[slang]

We all have a family tree that goes back quite a way...

/me gets in touch with his inner fish :)

[drainbread]

lulz @ the inner fish statement!

It's just kinda neat to be able to look back at all the names.

[Noclevername]

My family name means "Descended from Ferdinand"; given where most of my family is from, the Ferdinand in question was probably either a king of the Kingdom of Sicily (which at the time covered part of southern Italy) or a king of the Two Sicilies. It is also possible, but geographically unlikely, that it could refer to one of the Medici Grand Dukes of Tuscany.

[Neverfly]

My family name means "Descended from Ferdinand"; given where most of my family is from, the Ferdinand in question was probably either a king of the Kingdom of Sicily (which at the time covered part of southern Italy) or a king of the Two Sicilies. It is also possible, but geographically unlikely, that it could refer to one of the Medici Grand Dukes of Tuscany.

I thought Ferdinand was a Bull?

http://www.designmom.com/uploaded_images/ferdinand-729610.jpg

[Noclevername]

Among others. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand)

[Cougar]

East African young males of the Nandi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nandi_people) tribe have last names that typically start with Kip... and all young females' names start with Jep... I don't think that means "son of" or "daughter of" because the second part of the name is apparently "environmental" - what was going on when the kid was born. Was it sunset? Raining? Any old boring Tuesday? Kiplagat... Jepchirchir...

Apparently a Kip... changes to Arap... as an elder. Not sure what happens to the names of elder women...

[iflaron]

hah, there wouldn't be much to it one way or the other then

[clint]

Here's a nice explanation of surname categories... (http://www.searchforancestors.com/surnames/origin/)

1) Patronymic (from the first name of father).
Examples:
Peters - son of Peter (English, German)
Peterson - son of Peter (Swedish)
Petersen - son of Peter (Danish)
O'Reilly - grandson of Reilly (Ireland)
Mc- /Mac- - son of (Scottish)
d'- / di- - son of (Italian)
-ez / -es - son of (Spanish / Portuguese)
-wicz - son of (Poland)
Fitz- - son of (Old English - sometimes incorrectly associated with being an illegitimate)

2) Lives near locality or place.
Examples:
KirkPatrick - Church (kirk) of St. Patrick
Cliff - steep hill
Fairholm - the fair island
Ashley - field surrounded by ash trees

3) Occupation or social status.
Examples:
Cooper - barrel maker
Wagner or Waggoner - wagon maker
Knight - knighthood conferred by the king
Smith - blacksmith
Powers - poor or taken a vow of poverty

4) Nicknames describing person or personality.
Examples:
Reid - red, ruddy complexion or red hair
Stout - Body size
Small - Body size
Armstrong - strong arms
Sharpe - sharp, smart