Sort of a computer question: Could a human mind be hacked?

[banquo's_bumble_puppy]

Sort of a computer question: Could a human mind be hacked? I read Snowcrash years ago and found it very intriquing. What about a virus (as in the novel itself)? Ideas (memes) are viruses sort of....so maybe that part is already proven...

[Neverfly]

Sort of a computer question: Could a human mind be hacked? I read Snowcrash years ago and found it very intriquing. What about a virus (as in the novel itself)? Ideas (memes) are viruses sort of....so maybe that part is already proven...

Sure.
There are tales all throughout history of severe head injuries in which the survivor suffered extreme changes in nature and personality.
Not to mention lobotomy.
Then, you also have mind altering substances...

You seem to be asking more along the lines of "Ghost In The Shell" though... so...

I would expect that to be a very, very long time before such capabilities are available.
The complexity of the human brain severely restricts the ability for a person to go in and make subtle changes undetected. The best way to effect change is with catastrophe- currently- which lacks any kind of guaranteed results.

[Moose]

Sort of a computer question: Could a human mind be hacked? I read Snowcrash years ago and found it very intriquing. What about a virus (as in the novel itself)? Ideas (memes) are viruses sort of....so maybe that part is already proven...

If you mean outright possession, it's unlikely to be possible.

If you're using the real definition of 'to hack', then yes. Stage magicians do it for a living, as do con artists and cult leaders. Neurosurgeons, Anesthesiologists and Psychiatrists all practice forms of hacking on a regular basis as well.

[Chuck]

Advertisers are also good at it.

[eric_marsh]

Advertisers are also good at it.

So are religions.

[Moose]

So are religions.

Maybe so, but it's probably best to avoid the religious and/or political angles in this thread.

[banquo's_bumble_puppy]

maybe I mean more brute force....direct interface machine to brain....not so much through ideas or memes or viruses

[Chuck]

Hackers don't use brute force on computers. They send information. The brute force changing of a human brain would not be similar to hacking a computer.

[Neverfly]

Hackers don't use brute force on computers. They send information. The brute force changing of a human brain would not be similar to hacking a computer.

Crackers- actually. Hackers are programmers.

And yes, brute force is a method in cracking for gaining entry.

What you are thinking of is Spamming I think.

Brute force as an example would be- Hammering encryption software with password crackers repeatedly.
Another example would be forcing your way through a firewall or port. One method is to break up your file into a multitude of files that reassemble into an .exe on the other side. Another method is to barrage the port or firewall with massive amounts of information in order to squeeze your file through.

[Chuck]

Brute force would require physical access to the computer's hardware. Anything else is just sending information hoping that the receiving computer or its owner will do something with that information, such as executing it, that benefits you. If the receiving computer doesn't do anything with the incoming information then you're not going to hack in no matter what you send.

[Neverfly]

Brute force would require physical access to the computer's hardware. Anything else is just sending information hoping that the receiving computer or its owner will do something with that information, such as executing it, that benefits you. If the receiving computer doesn't do anything with the incoming information then you're not going to hack in no matter what you send.

umm
Brute force is a remote technique too.

Do I really want to have this discussion on the internet?:doh:

Eh... That's exactly what brute force MEANS- to pound it with information.:neutral:

What you are referring to is manipulation.

That's one method too. But let's say you want to crack a computer in order to gain access to its records or data? In that case, you simply want entry. Getting the user to do your bidding may be a part of that process but it does not need to be.

[Neverfly]

A quicky wiki look:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brute_force_attack

[Chuck]

If all you're doing is pounding the computer with information then you're going to need for that computer to respond to that information. What you're doing is tricking the software or computer user into cooperating with you. You're not using force. I think the word "force" is being misused here since since the hacker is not using physical force to gain entry like one would break down a door to force entry to a room.

[Neverfly]

If all you're doing is pounding the computer with information then you're going to need for that computer to respond to that information. What you're doing is tricking the software or computer user into cooperating with you. You're not using force. I think the word "force" is being misused here since since the hacker is not using physical force to gain entry like one would break down a door to force entry to a room.

In cyber space- it is physical:neutral:
It is essentially the same thing.

Whether or not the word applies to your own personal definition- there are a great many words and descriptions in regards to computers that follow the same trend- and are already established.

[Moose]

If all you're doing is pounding the computer with information then you're going to need for that computer to respond to that information. What you're doing is tricking the software or computer user into cooperating with you. You're not using force. I think the word "force" is being misused here since since the hacker is not using physical force to gain entry like one would break down a door to force entry to a room.

Chuck. "Brute force" is a metaphor. It's professional jargon that describes programming technique where you rely on the processor (and near-unlimited time) to complete a task, rather than work the algorithm to solve it in a more elegant way. There is no "physical access" necessary nor implied by the term.

Brute force is term that does not directly apply to computer intrusion, but rather applies to programming in general.

In terms of a Rubik's Cube, a brute force approach to solving it would be this:

1) Randomly turn a side.
2) Is it solved? If so, stop, if not, continue.
3) Repeat.

A heuristic approach to solving the same cube would be to follow one of the solution algorithms, the sort that can solve the cube in minutes.

Another heuristic might be to physically disassemble the cube and reassemble it solved. Yet another physical heuristic might be to peel off and reattach the stickers.

Breaking into a computer through physical access is technically a heuristic, Chuck. Not a brute force technique.

Similarly, programmers use metaphors that talk about "killing" processes, "hanging" computers, and "breaking" software. And yet, nobody dies, and nothing gets damaged.

[Neverfly]

Similarly, programmers use metaphors that talk about "killing" processes, "hanging" computers, and "breaking" software. And yet, nobody dies, and nothing gets damaged.

Sometimes things get damaged when computers hang up:whistle:

[Moose]

Sometimes things get damaged when computers hang up:whistle:

Fits of rage notwithstanding... :)

[Paul Leeks]

the Russians experienced with remote influencing,hacking is possible of stealing "files" from a persons memory telepathically,the info is recieved subconsciously so it is retrieved without the other person (reciever) knowing it!!

PL

[mahesh]

A rather fast-moving, globally shot, beautifully edited, Wim Wenders' film comes to mind....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Until_the_End_of_the_World

Exquisite film. Max von Sydow, wonderful as always!

[Elenwen]

Banqou, I think you would be interested in watching the film Being John Malkovich.

[tdvance]

I guess you could strap a person to a theater seat, tape an eyelid open, and make the person watch violent movies while Beethoven's 9th symphony plays.

[Drunk Vegan]

As it stands currently, no, a brain can't be "hacked" because a brain is not a digital calculation machine and thus is incompatible with our other technologies.

As time progresses and people choose to merge with their technology, however, then yes, Snow Crash and Neuromancer type scenarios become entirely possible and plausible. If you've got a giant chip attached to your brain which is enhancing and supplanting your natural brain, someone could easily control that chip and your brain, now reliant on a prosthetses, would be obliged to continue relying on the device even though it is now being controlled by a hacker.

OTOH I don't think people will be stupid enough to get brain chips and provide some kind of Input/Output protocol like WiFi. But I guess we may well be that retarded as a culture and will do it for the convenience of being able to access the Internet with nothing more than our minds.

[Swift]

As it stands currently, no, a brain can't be "hacked" because a brain is not a digital calculation machine and thus is incompatible with our other technologies.

As time progresses and people choose to merge with their technology, however, then yes, Snow Crash and Neuromancer type scenarios become entirely possible and plausible.
I agree, though I don't think it is a near-term (within 10 or 20 years) thing. We are in the very early stages of such technology.

But if you expand your definition of hacking to such things as drugs, torture, and other mind control techniques, then yes, the human brain can be hacked, in the sense that information can be involuntarily gotten from a person, or they can be made to do things they would not normally do. I suspect that such techniques are neither as easy, nor as straight forward, as depicted in the movies.

[HenrikOlsen]

I guess you could strap a person to a theater seat, tape an eyelid open, and make the person watch violent movies while Beethoven's 9th symphony plays.
You apparently missed the drugs to make him physically ill while doing so in the hope he'd associate getting sick with watching violence, and that the book was a comment on experiments in Britain to use that type of "training" to "cure" homosexuals. (they didn't work)