Runaround

[Jeff Root]

I'm asking this as a question from someone who knows almost nothing
about running, racing, or athletics in general.

If two people wanted to race each other in a footrace, and a running
track happened to be available, perhaps with six lanes, do you think
they would most likely choose adjacent lanes, or two lanes apart, to
give them more psychological elbow room?

How is it done in organized races?

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[01101001]

How is it done in organized races?

What distance? At some lengths, they stop worrying about lanes.

[mugaliens]

We'd always choose lanes next to one another for anything 440 or shorter, using the stepped distance starting blocks. I never did anything longer (in a race, anyway).

[Fazor]

Interesting; let me think about my answer from the perspective of a guy who's more likely to roll than run ...

I get the whole "lets give us some room" thing; but I think I'd end up picking adjacent lanes. The closer proximity creates more of a personal interaction between the two contestants; I'm more likely to push myself harder if I'm closer to my competition.

...Plus, when I stuck my foot out to trip the other person, it'd be more conspicous if I was doing so over an empty lane :whistle:

[jfribrg]

For longer races, the two competitors would start on the 2 inside lanes, with the lane 2 competitor starting several feet ahead of the lane 1 competitor ( I forget the exact distance). Both runners would be required to stay in lane for the first turn and then both can run on the inside lane.

[chrissy]

Each lane has a staggered starting line because you are going farther when you are outside of the first lane. It is about 7 meters farther for each lap for each lane. If you were running in lane 8 then each lap you would be running 449 meters instead of 400 meters. So if you ran 7 laps you would be doing about 2 miles in lane 8. If you ran in lane 1 you would run 8 laps to travel about 2 miles.

When the athletes are doing a long distance run they tend to gather in the inside lane and it is normally a case of keeping ones distance from everybodies elbows a sort of running etiquette they tend to have. ;)

[Jeff Root]

Okay. I guess that's enough that I might as well go ahead and say what
it is I'm trying to get from you.

I'm writing a story in which I'd like to have two people race on a highschool
running track, and the stronger runner loses the race because she wasn't
familiar with how different lane lengths are dealt with.

I was aware that in at least some races on oval tracks, the starting
positions are adjusted, but didn't know (or don't remember from phy ed)
that one could move to the inside lane after the first turn. I did guess
that it might work that way. I'm rather surprised that I apparently
figured it exactly right.

The girl in my story is about equally ignorant as I was. My notion was
that the people who set up the race didn't say or do anything about
adjusting the starting positions (none of them being racers, themselves),
and didn't tell the girl that she could move over to the inside lane after
the first turn. The guy she is competing against might know, but he
isn't saying anything.

So they start side-by-side, two lanes apart, and when they're partway
through the first turn, the girl realizes that the guy is pulling ahead, and
thinks, "Of course! If the lanes are two feet wide, and we're two lanes
apart, I hafta run four pi feet farther than him around every turn! That's
um... more than twelve feet! That's why some races have the runners
start at different places! Somebody fouled up!"

She stays in the third lane on the backstretch and through the second
turn, during which her friends, some of whom undoubtedly watched the
Olympics on TV (unlike me), shout at her to get into the inside lane.
So then she figures out for herself that if she is going to try to pass the
guy, she's going to have to do it on a straightaway. But she's already
had to run 25 feet farther than him, and can't manage to make it up.

Is such mass ignorance plausible?

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[mugaliens]

The closer proximity creates more of a personal interaction between the two contestants; I'm more likely to push myself harder if I'm closer to my competition.

It's easier to push the competition, too... ;0

[mugaliens]

The girl in my story is about equally ignorant as I was.

Well, Jeff, I'd have to say that makes you qualified to write the story! :lol:

Sounds interesting, by the way. What genre?

[chrissy]

Is such mass ignorance plausible?

Only if she has never been on a running track, or taught about how she can move to the inside lane.

Maybe this girl was spotted by someone on her running speed and took her to a track to show prospective sponsors, she might be home schooled and had to work on the family farm and the family don't own a TV either. (there are families like that)

[chrissy]

You have to make it a bit more plausable Jeff, working out trig while running a race on a track she has never known. Unless she is a math genius, but she would have worked it out just by looking at the track.
Or you can work it that she is given an ear piece and the same for the guy and their coaches can talk to them via that!!! *shrugs*

[Jeff Root]

She just doesn't have any interest in competitions or competative sports,
so she hasn't paid much attention to the details relating to the competative
aspects. But I'm assuming that it is possible for an intelligent person to do
that while successfully negotiating the standard phy ed classes, as well as
having a normal level of interaction with the rest of the world. I, myself,
learned nothing in phy ed and have very little contact with the rest of the
world, so she is created in my own image... kinda-sorta.

She is drawing parallels between herself and Atalanta, which will probably
only be hinted at in the text.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[Jeff Root]

It doesn't require trigonometry. Just circumference = 2 pi * radius.
She knew that but hadn't thought to apply it to this particular
situation until she realized that she was at a disadvantage. Then
it was obvious.

Some people can do math in their head. I can't. She can. Some basic
arithmetic and algebra, anyhow.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[chrissy]

So how did she get into the situation of running a race with this guy?
Was it something to do with math or PE?
Could it be the math teacher wanted to show the rest of the class a solution and how to work it out?

[Tucson_Tim]

Some modern track trivia:

- All modern tracks are in meters, 400m is the inside lane.
- Track is four parts, two 100m straights and two 100m curves (semi-circles).
- If the track has an inside curb (not the preferred or usual config) then the distance is measured a little farther from the inside edge than a track with no curb.
- For a shorter race, like the 200m, where each sprinter must stay in his staggered lane, the lane that is the easiest to run in is the outermost lane because the curve has a larger radius. BUT the best lanes, psychologically, are the inside lanes where you can see all of your opponents.
- If you go to a track just for jogging, most tracks with tartan or rubberized asphalt surfaces will have signs that ask you to jog in the outer lanes to keep the inner lanes from wearing out so soon. Some tracks will not allow recreational jogging for this very reason. Besides, who wants to jog a 10K on the track (25 laps).
- For rec running, track etiquette requires that slower runners run in the outermost lanes to allow for the faster runners in the inner lanes.
- If you want to run a quarter mile (440 yds), run on the line separating lanes 1 and 2.

[sarongsong]

...Both runners would be required to stay in lane for the first turn and then both can run on the inside lane.First lap is my understanding---and we still don't know what the length of this race is supposed to be.

[Jeff Root]

So how did she get into the situation of running a race with this guy?
I don't know yet. Except that it was a challenge from the guy.
What I don't know is why she accepts. I assume that it has to
do with peer pressure, though. It isn't anything she wanted.


Was it something to do with math or PE?
Could it be the math teacher wanted to show the rest of the class
a solution and how to work it out?
Urk. No. Nothing like that... All that is all irrelevant to this thread...
This isn't great literature. Or even good literature. Or even halfway
decent. I'm just trying to keep the details plausible. And I'm a long
way from understanding the psyches of the characters. Long way.
Even if they forever remain nothing but cardboard cutouts.

But that IS a very good question, about just exactly how she got
into this situation. Hmmm. I've never seen any of "The Perils of
Pauline". Maybe I should research that and find out how she got
into her messes. Nah. My character will find her own way in.
She finds her own way out.

This isn't QUITE what happens, but the basic plot isn't TOO far off:
"Boy meets girl. Girl gets boy into pickle. Boy gets pickle into girl."

Ahem.

Now that I've thought about it for a few seconds, I think maybe
a bit of the plot derives from my dissatisfaction with the movie
"Personal Best". With that title, I expected the central character
to lose (like maybe come in fifth place), but since she did the best
she could, she's happy with what she accomplished. Instead, the
plot is abysmally conventional, and she wins the gold, IIRC. The
title was completely inappropriate.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[Jeff Root]

...Both runners would be required to stay in lane for the first turn
and then both can run on the inside lane.
First lap is my understanding---and we still don't know what the
length of this race is supposed to be.
It's good for me that you aren't sure, because the whole situation
is based on the premise that everyone involved could be as ignorant
as I am despite the fact that they are a completely eclectic bunch.
Since I didn't know the length of the track, my characters didn't,
either. I knew that a standard football field is 100 yards long and
50 yards wide, and I knew that the track goes around the outside
of the field, but I don't know how far outside, and I don't know that
high school football fields are the standard size. As far as I know,
they could be smaller. So at some point I imagined my character
estimating the length of the track based on the standard football
field dimensions, but knowing that it was only a rough estimate.
This is based on the assumption that everyone has been exposed
to so much football that they know the dimensions of the field, but
almost nobody has any interest in footraces, so they have no idea
of the length of the track. Again that assumption is made from MY
perspective, which of course isn't representative of normal people.

I figured that the staggered starting locations were probably near
the "left" end of the track, so I was going to have them start and
finish at the fifty-yard line. Three times around. I can't wear them
out in just one race. This is just one event in a sort of impromptu
iron-man contest. They're doing about 15 events in one day. :whistle:
They generally get progressively more difficult as the day goes on.
This is the last of the outdoor events, as they'd need some time to
recover from it.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[Tog_]

I was on the track team in high school. Here is the set up as we did them.

100m- Straight track with all runners staring in a straight line. Generally, the faster runners picked the middle lanes as opposed to the outside.

200m- Starts at the midpoint of the far side straight and finished at the midpoint of the press box straight. Each lane further out has the starting line slightly forward of the lane to the inside, and runners must stay within their lane at all times.

400m- Starts and ends on the midpoint of the press box straight and each lane further out is staggered with the outside lane starting well into the first turn. All runners must stay in their own lanes.

800m/1600m- Starts in the same place as the 400 with the runers remaining in their own lanes for the first lap. After crossing the start/finish line at the end of the first lap, runners can move in and ignore the lane boundaries providing that they do not drop "inside" of the inner lane.

3200m- May be the same as the above, but I honestly can't recall if the first lap was in lane or not.

For the 200 and 400, there is a lot more to lane choice than for the others. On the inside, you can see all of your competition at the start and this gives you a goal. On the other hand, the radius of the curve can be felt. Since the inside lane has about 50m of straight line before the turn, it's easy to get a feeling that you will overshoot the mark and back off as you round into it. This is especially true for novice sprinters.

Another common rookie mistake is made at the finish line. You are not racing to the line. You are racing to 20m past it. A lot of people see the finish line as the end and slow down before they reach it.

Now... Storytime. There were three schools in out division that were places you didn't want to go.

South High had a kid get shot the day before our first meet there. The next year, one of their star sprinter/shot putters got stabbed in he leg the day before our meet.

Tooele (bonus points if you can say it right) had the announcement for anyone running more than 200m that just before the apex of the far turn, in lane three, there was a pot hole. No lane violation will be called for avoiding it. It was about 5 inches deep and would have held a basketball.
The high jump pads had a hole in them in just the right spot for an arm to fall in and just the right height to have it pop your shoulder if you landed in it. If you happened to be my height. Plus it was like 50 degrees. And I got a planar wart there.

West had a track that was 5 laps to a mile instead of 4. This mean the 100m ended about 5 m from a chainlink fence. I opted for lane one on this one since there was a tree right beside it. I crossed the line and grabbed the tree to swing around and drop my excess momentum. Would that it were an aspen. I got a bad case of road rash all up my left forearm from the cheesegrater bark around that thing.

Good times.

[mugaliens]

Good stories. We had a guy lose something precious on the way down from a pole vault. Evidently, it pays to stay evenly between the uprights, rather than veering off to the left. If I'm not mistaken, if he hadn't hit the upright, he'd have missed the pad entirely.

The five times I tried pole vaulting (five runs, not meets), I managed to clear ten feet, then quit. That's high! Scary.

[hhEb09'1]

It's good for me that you aren't sure, because the whole situation
is based on the premise that everyone involved could be as ignorant
as I am despite the fact that they are a completely eclectic bunch.
Since I didn't know the length of the track, my characters didn't,
either. I knew that a standard football field is 100 yards long and
50 yards wide, and I knew that the track goes around the outside
of the field, but I don't know how far outside, and I don't know that
high school football fields are the standard size. As far as I know,
they could be smaller. So at some point I imagined my character
estimating the length of the track based on the standard football
field dimensions, but knowing that it was only a rough estimate.120 yards x 53 1/3 yards, so you have some leeway there too

[Jeff Root]

I have a diagram of football field dimensions on my other computer,
but didn't bother to look for it before posting. I found it for a friend
who wanted to make a scale football field the base for a model of
the International Space Station, to show its size.

I'm not at all sure what you mean by 'leeway'. It was another error
on my part -- forgetting about the end zones and sidelines, and
doesn't provide anything particularly useful to the story, that I can
see. Pehaps it makes it less likely that I'll mention the numbers.

I guess my main questions now are: How likely is it that nobody in a
group of umm... 20 high school students, 10th - 12th grade, would
think to offset the starting lines, and that none of them would know
the distance around the track?

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[chrissy]

So have you any ideas about this story, the main character/s a comedy/weepy or very serious, if this is a sporting story etc.

You need to be able to describe the characters and their traits and backgrounds.

Keeping the reader turning the pages wanting to know what is happening on the next page.

I have written a few short stories myself, but never went down the road to get them published. adults only :shhh:

[hhEb09'1]

I'm not at all sure what you mean by 'leeway'. It was another error
on my part -- forgetting about the end zones and sidelines, and
doesn't provide anything particularly useful to the story, that I can
see. Pehaps it makes it less likely that I'll mention the numbers.I just meant you had more leeway in adjusting your character's misestimations.

Wouldn't a football field without sidelines be potentially infinite? That could be an interesting game, maybe the defense would be allowed to partially encircle the offense.
I guess my main questions now are: How likely is it that nobody in a
group of umm... 20 high school students, 10th - 12th grade, would
think to offset the starting lines, and that none of them would know
the distance around the track?You mean, that it is a quarter mile? or do you mean, down to the foot, for each lane?

[Fazor]

I guess my main questions now are: How likely is it that nobody in a
group of umm... 20 high school students, 10th - 12th grade, would
think to offset the starting lines, and that none of them would know
the distance around the track?

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

Well, *I* knew they were offset, and I never played sports or ran track. And, as many of you have picked up on I'm sure, I'm also not the most perceptive person in the world.

...But then again, highschoolers never cease to amaze me with the vast amount of things they don't know. *shrug*

[Tog_]

I guess my main questions now are: How likely is it that nobody in a
group of umm... 20 high school students, 10th - 12th grade, would
think to offset the starting lines, and that none of them would know
the distance around the track?

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

Think to offset the lines? It's possible that none would.
for knowing the distance around the track, I think most would. In my high school, everyone in PE ran one mile every class. That was four laps, and PE was a required class*. If she can math out the distance she's running relative to him in her head, she could surely figure out 1 mile/4= 1/4 mile. In jr high (7th-9th grade) we had written tests on the dimensions of various sports field sizes in the required PE classes. Based on my own experiences, most of them should have been at least exposed to the size of the field. As to whether it stuck... well, that's open to speculation.

*Any sport also counted as PE. Since I was in track I didn't have to take regular PE. Since I was a jumper and sprinter, and not a good one, I didn't have to run anywhere near as far as the people that were not in track. How's that for irony? Oh, and the coach was missing a leg at the hip.

anyway, if her school requirements are similar, she could be on the golf team, or curling team, or tennis, and never have to run a lap.