More Home Maintenence Adventures!

[Fazor]

Earlier this year I got to adventure into the world of electricity with a (simple) breaker replacement in the fuse box.

Well, now it's time to veer off into the world of plumbing. My water heater ... well, it's past it's prime. And by that I mean one of the water pipes (as best I can tell, the cold-water input) had a slow leak and since I never think enough to check things that appear to be working, is now increadibly corroded.

Since I don't particularly like ice-cold showers ... doubly so in the winter ... I figure I should get that replaced ASAP. I'll have to buy a new unit tomorrow, but am hoping that with the help of my brother (more hands) I'll be able to install it myself. Most of the stuff I've read say it's not *that* difficult (most list it as intermediate). It's the gas that makes me nervous.

So, there's some plumbers 'round here and there's also many people that actually know what their doing. What's the opinion? How difficult is swapping a heating unit with the same kind (current one is gas w/ tank, new one will be gas w/ tank).

[Fazor]

Into the attic? That seems like a risky place for a water heater. If they fail, and it's up top, the water runs down and turns a big mess into a huge mess. :-P

The part I'm worried most about is the gas. I'd rather not blow myself up. I think I'll be smart and invest in a carbon monoxide detector aswell.

[chrissy]

I know of one, a PM is sent to you. With added advice. ;)

[Veeger]

How old it the original installation and what kind of water pipes do you have, black iron or copper?

If the installation is old, you must be aware of a few things about the ventilation of gas water heaters. For example, how far does the vent run? Up to date codes will dictate whether or not you may need a power vent (motorized vent fan).

As for the water plumbing, is the original unit installed via pipe unions? If so, it is easy to remove the unit and install a new one with minimal hassle. If not, you may want to consider installing unions for the next time.

The gas piping should not be a big problem with the correct pipe joint compound. I have seen teflon wrapped joints work OK but plumbers will not use teflon for gas. See if local codes specify. Believe it or not many plumbers check for leaks with an open flame. Not saying you should however. The leaks are generally small and will not explode but will shoot out a nice blue flame that needs snuffed and fixed.

All told the job should take a few hours but the hard part is getting the old tank removed from the cellar as it usually weighs a lot since it is generally full of lime and often difficult to fully drain. And it doesn't exactly have convenient carrying handles.

[Nicolas]

Of course I don't know your DIY capabilities or those of your brother, but if you're no DIY hero, I wouldn't do it myself. plumbing isn't the easiest thing to do (I assume some plumbing will be necessary to match everything onto the new heater). The way they place gas pipes overhere these days requires a hydraulic press that only plumbers own. I wouldn't work on gas pipes if I wasn't a close-to-professional DIY plumber.

What I've done was replacing the central heating heater and the water heater with 1 combined unit. One of the advantages: only one pilot flame. I let a plumber do it for me :).

[Fazor]

Heh, my DIY level is on par with Chevy Chase in a Lampoon's movie; but my brother's worked construction (residential) doing various things. I'm just not sure how much he knows about plumbing.

Our furnace is fairly new, if that's what you mean by a combined unit. If I had any money I'd get a tankless water heater and let a professional install it. But, I don't. Plus I plan on selling the house within the next few years (or at least renting it) so why buy frills for someone else? :)

[Tinaa]

Neverfly is a plumber.

[Donnie B.]

I have replaced water heaters twice. I'm handy and have done a fair amount of plumbing (homeowner level, not pro), and didn't find the water heater job too tough. Of course, each installation is unique and could present special challenges.

A better way to check for gas leaks is with a solution of dish soap and water. Bubbles=bad, no bubbles=good. Check every joint you worked on, plus every joint farther up the pipe that may have been disturbed. Don't forget the shutoff valve, which might start leaking after it's closed and reopened. Go back after a couple hours of normal operation and sniff around, too -- the scent agents that are added to the gas are unmistakable and can be detected in tiny concentrations. If you smell anything funny, recheck your gas connections.

[Neverfly]

The gas pipe seems t make you nervous only because it's a GAS pipe, Fazor.
I prefer gas pipes. Gas runs at a few ounces of pressure whereas water runs at 60 to 70 psi;)


Just turn the ball valve on the gas line off. It's in the off position when the lever is perpendicular to the line. It's on when it's parallel to the line.

Use your mechanic wrenches for this job. You should have a pair of channel locks, but ONLY use the channel locks for installing the nipples at the top of the water heater. For everything else, use the correct sized wrench.
Liberally use pipe dope.
Pipe dope is a teflon based yellow gooey (And I do mean gooey) sealant that you apply to the threads of the pipes that you are connecting.

The flex hoses for the in and out at the top of the heater: These come in two ways, swet fittings and threaded fittings. If they are swet, you will either need to solder the new flex hoses or convert the leads at the pipes with threaded adapters. If you convert it, you will need to solder on the adapters.

Attic heaters: You need to drain them for several hours before they are light enough to carry down attic stairs. Even then, you really want more than one person. I've carried many water heaters up and down attics alone and I can assure you it is no fun.
Draining the water heater is done at the nozzle at the bottom of the heater. Attach a garden hose and turn the valve on. Because water heaters build up a large amount of calcium deposits, those can clog the bottom of the water heater. It takes a while to drain and every once in a while you need to get both hands at the top and tilt it and shake a bit to keep things moving.

Pressure relief valve: Theses are usually threaded onto the heater and soldered onto the pipe end beyond that. You will need to detach the swet fitting holding the pressure relief valve to the pipe, then unthread it to remove it from the adapter. You may not have to do that depending on the installation. But check and test the Pressure relief valve prior to replacement and after replacement. Testing it just means moving the little lever on top of the valve upward until it is standing straight up. You should hear the rush of water is if a faucet was just turned on. (And only do this while it's attached to the pip of course!;)) The lever should move without jarring resistance. Smoothly. It should take a bit of muscle to move it. But it should not be sticky, require a wrench, or grind against itself.

I understand that you said your brother works construction, but that does NOT mean he works plumbing. Water heaters can be a pain in the butt at times even for experienced plumbers. Water and electricity both work the nerves simply because if something gives out, it can take out everything around it. So if you have doubts, I would recommend you bite the bullet and go ahead and call a plumber to ensure you don't have problems later.

[Fazor]

That's what I meant; he's got experience with a lot of various things (but only "certified" experience in welding and tile setting); but I don't know how much, if any, he knows about plumbing.

Apparently, there's an option to rent. Seems odd to me; my g/f's brother-in-law rented one for the house he bought for his parents. I guess it's $13/mo. and they do the install. Since we don't plan on living in this house for much longer before turning it to a rental or selling, that might be an option. Just seems like an odd thing to rent.

[Neverfly]

That's what I meant; he's got experience with a lot of various things (but only "certified" experience in welding and tile setting); but I don't know how much, if any, he knows about plumbing.

Apparently, there's an option to rent. Seems odd to me; my g/f's brother-in-law rented one for the house he bought for his parents. I guess it's $13/mo. and they do the install. Since we don't plan on living in this house for much longer before turning it to a rental or selling, that might be an option. Just seems like an odd thing to rent.

Rent to Own maybe... Yes, that does seem odd. I've never heard of it.
But then.. It's how folks pull money out of people.
A gas water heater can run as low as $150. At $13 a month, you will have paid it off a little before a year has passed. But chances are, you will keep paying for it for several years. Must be a nice profit.

[Veeger]

Flex hoses and similar plumbing aids are not always used in my part of the Buckeye state because of local codes. Most of the water heaters I have seen are rigidly connected. Even codes governing T&P valve connection being piped to a floor drain to prevent water from flowing over the floor are often required for replacements as well as new installs. Fazor, since you mentioned you may rent the house someday consider that depending on the location and the class of renting you do, your house may be subject to certain FHA or other government inspections before it can be rented. The mechanical equipment will get a close look. The same inspection can happen when selling to a buyer under FHA or similar programs.
Of course that does not necessarily mean you should not do the job. If it were me, I would still proceed. I am just passing along some additional cautions.

[Frantic Freddie]

Hey guys,white teflon tape for water connections,yellow teflon for gas.

[tdvance]

With gas pipes--when screwing pieces of wallboard to the stud that the newly-installed gas pipe is running through, be careful the screw doesn't go through the gas pipe. I had a fireplace installed last year, and tried to repair the holes in the wall myself. After doing so, I noticed a smell of gas. I removed the screw and suddenly I could smell --and-- hear the gas! Turn the gas off, call Baltimore Gas and Electric (who installed the gas line for the fireplace), pay a couple hundred for a new splice in the gas line, and let my more-experienced uncle repair the walls.

[Neverfly]

tdvance, I think I want to hire you.



Anyone that can put a screw through a galvanized pipe has talent. Diamond in the rough...

[Fazor]

Just an update: I decided that a) I don't know what I'm doing, and b) I need hot water sooner than I get another day off work, so I'm just having a contractor install it. Mostly b, as I'm never sure of what I'm doing, but enjoy doing it anyway. :)

So, hopefully by the time I get home from work tonight I'll have a spank'n new water heater and will be able to take a much needed shower.

[tdvance]

well, the pipe was a "flexpipe"--corrugated metal. Easy to put a screw between two folds.

[A.DIM]

Heh, my DIY level is on par with Chevy Chase in a Lampoon's movie; but my brother's worked construction (residential) doing various things. I'm just not sure how much he knows about plumbing.

Our furnace is fairly new, if that's what you mean by a combined unit. If I had any money I'd get a tankless water heater and let a professional install it. But, I don't. Plus I plan on selling the house within the next few years (or at least renting it) so why buy frills for someone else? :)

I happened to watch This Old House yesterday which dealt with installing a tankless. It's the way to go, if you've got the funds. And if you're not in a hurry and your bro knows a little about plumbing, I think you could do it.
Running a new electrical circuit and a few pvc turns and extensions should do it.
Sounds easy, eh?

I guess I'm mentally preparing for my own sometime in '09.

:D

[A.DIM]

Just an update: I decided that a) I don't know what I'm doing, and b) I need hot water sooner than I get another day off work, so I'm just having a contractor install it. Mostly b, as I'm never sure of what I'm doing, but enjoy doing it anyway. :)

So, hopefully by the time I get home from work tonight I'll have a spank'n new water heater and will be able to take a much needed shower.

With this, I realise how irrelevant my post above is.

Unless you might yet stretch and have the contractor put in a tankless...

[Fazor]

No; I like tankless but for the cost, and the fact that this is a "starter home", it wasn't worth it. Only 1 bathroom, and the only other thing that uses a measurable amount of hot water is the washing machine (and we do most loads on 'cold' anyway). So between the wiring and re-plumbing, and added cost of the tankless, we just wouldn't come out ahead.

[Trebuchet]

Just an update: I decided that a) I don't know what I'm doing, and b) I need hot water sooner than I get another day off work, so I'm just having a contractor install it. Mostly b, as I'm never sure of what I'm doing, but enjoy doing it anyway. :)

So, hopefully by the time I get home from work tonight I'll have a spank'n new water heater and will be able to take a much needed shower.

A wise man knows his limits. You're evidently a wise man.

My limit for home repairs is never to start something that has the potential for leaving a major function unusable if I screw up. That means I'm fine with changing a bathroom faucet, where I can shut off the supply under the sink but I won't touch anything that requires shutting off the water to the whole house.

[Fazor]

Probably a good way to draw battle lines Treb. I do have plenty of other maintnence that I need to get to (of course, because of this, they'll all have to wait for a few paychecks to come in). One involves plaster and water damage (seems easy, knock on wood).

[HenrikOlsen]

One involves plaster and water damage (seems easy, knock on wood).
It is.
Take plaster, apply water, let sit until damaged.:whistle:

[Nicolas]

Due to circumstances I have a house that needs a lot of work and the guy who'll do it is me. I do know my limits; I let a kitchen guy install the kitchen and a plumber do the plumbing. The rest, I do myself. People who rightfully don't know me as a DIY guy often ask me how I know all these things. My usual reply is that I don't know them, I do them. Goes quite OK up to now.

[Fazor]

My usual reply is that I don't know them, I do them. Goes quite OK up to now.
One of our claims adjusters (and a darned good one at that) use to work out of our office on Tuesdays. He does a lot of work on his house himself, and does minor work for people on the side. He once said "A lot of people pay others to do things that are really easy, just because they've never done them before." I find that very true--as many things that I was ... reluctant .. to take on have turned out to be pretty straight forward.

My hesitance, and hence starting of this thread, comes from the number of general contractors I know that have expressed caution when approaching plumbing (because of the potential damage if you screw it up). Electrical is the other one that I hesitate to get too indepth with, for the same reason.

The advantage of DIY (aside from saving on labor cost) is that once you do something, then you'll know how to fix it if it arises in the future (or at least be better prepared for it).

[geonuc]

With my 78-year-old house, I do most stuff myself, as long as it doesn't require muscle or twisting into weird positions (bad back). I do most of the electrical work, but then, I am somewhat familiar with those pesky electrons.

[Fazor]

Well, that adventure was not so adventurous, just costly. But they got the unit installed and I'm glad I had someone do it--not overly complicated but involved some skills that I don't possess. (Mostly, welding and carrying heavy old water heaters up stairs ;)).

[Van Rijn]

I replaced the water heater myself a number of years ago. It wasn't that hard for me, but it was in an easily accessible location in the garage, and I didn't have to do any welding. I used a winch and straps to lift it into position (couldn't have done that alone without the mechanical help). I wouldn't recommend it if you doubt your ability, it could get dangerous, but it wasn't the hardest home job I've done.

[geonuc]

Welding? :confused:

[Salty]

I just hired a plumber to put in a new water heater. It cost me in money, but the peace of mind was priceless.

[Fazor]

Okay I started my next DIY project. Well, I'm cheating. My brother, the union tile-setter, set the tile. And I'm making him help me re-locate and wire a new light fixture. But since he's related, it's still DIY, right? :)

Here's the first pictures of my bathroom renovation. Sorry about the quality; I couldn't locate my point-and-shoot, and my g/f has her good camera with her. Had to settle for cell-pics. And only one side of the bathroom, because at the time the other side still had painter's tape up.

(Also the vanity isn't actually installed, which I was about to do right now, until I figured out that it'll be 100 times easier to put the light fixture in if we can move the vanity out of the way. I can live using the kitchen sink instead for a few days).

Edit: Oops. I'm an idiot. Forgot to upload the pix.And it's not letting me attach, so I'll have to link to my website. Pictures to come in a sec...

[Fazor]

Okay, here's the much anticipated pictures (http://www.greenapple.com/~gibson/bath/).

[Musashi]

I really like that tile job. Also enjoy the furniture looking vanity.

[Fazor]

He did a great job. Initially we were just going to go with the off-set rows, but after he showed us some of the options we decided we really liked that pattern. I guess it's called a "hop-scotch" pattern.

The vanity was almost twice as much as the others we were looking at; but given the rooms colors we fell in love with it. I figure the bathroom is one of the key selling points of a house, so it'll be worth the investment.