Australian wildfires

[geonuc]

Some seriously bad fires are raging through southeastern Australia. The NYT reports 131 people killed.

I recall not too long ago the huge fires that threatened the Sydney area.

My best wishes to anyone affected.

[geonuc]

The city of Melbourne seems to be all but surrounded, including big fires not too far from where I lived in Ringwood.

This news site has a Google map of the fires:

http://www.theage.com.au/national/stayanddefend-policy-under-review-20090209-82d4.html

[megrfl]

I would like to offer my sincere condolences to all of Australia; to the unnecessary deaths of your countrymen, women, and children and to the way they tragically passed.

There are no words.
megr

[chrissy]

I heard today from the commissioner of Australia the death count may be higher.

I hope you guys are okay over there, we are thinking about you all and your safety.

[timb]

Regrettably the toll (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/09/2485989.htm) from the bushfires (http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/bushfires/) is now 171. My sympathies to the victims and their families.

Ironically, while the southern mainland states of Australia have been experiencing a record heat wave on top of drought conditions, Queensland has suffered floods after rain, and an outbreak of Dengue fever.

[Tarkus]

Thanks for your kind thoughts folks. This is one of our biggest natural disasters and we are prepared for a much larger toll. The temperatures and high winds of last saturday made it impossible for most to escape or even to get news of impending fire storms. Many were taken by surprise. We have family members in several areas affected and it was terrible trying to get news that day. This is a true disaster, whole streets, towns and families have been lost.

I wish to acknowledge our fire and emergency services as heros - thanks.

[Josh]

Fraser links to some satellite shots here (http://www.bautforum.com/universe-today-story-comments/84512-satellite-images-2009-australian-bushfires.html).

As I posted in that thread, some town have been completely wiped off the map.

[timb]

Fraser links to some satellite shots here (http://www.bautforum.com/universe-today-story-comments/84512-satellite-images-2009-australian-bushfires.html).


The link I provided (http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/bushfires/) has some good shots taken from much closer. Admittedly they don't have the astronomical relevance of satellite images.

[Josh]

I found it reassuring for some reason to see our Prime Minister almost break down when talking about the devastation.

The state seems much smaller and everyone feels a lot closer and more neighbourly when disasters like this happen.

[KaiYeves]

My heart goes out to all of you in Oz, especially the people whom it was my good fortune to meet when I traveled there not long ago.

[Whirlpool]

Natural Calamities are really have its way on us , and this time, Wildfires.

I hope all is well there and everyone is taken care of .

[sarongsong]

Sadly, some aren't natural:February 9, 2009
...Government research shows about half of the roughly 60,000 fires each year are deliberately lit or suspicious...
iht.com (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/02/08/asia/AS-Australia-Wildfires.php)

[Josh]

Sadly, some aren't natural:

Yep, the PM has called it mass murder.

[timb]

Sadly, some aren't natural:

There seems to be a copycat element. Once a major fire is reported the firebugs seem to come out of the woodwork (so to speak) and start lighting more fires.

[jokergirl]

Annnnnnnd some people have declared it to be because of anti-abortion laws. Ugh.
Sometimes I wish I weren't human...

;)

[BigDon]

NOW it's being spread by the 'net that its "Islamic terrorist"s who were starting the deliberate fires.

Where have I heard something like THAT before. Except maybe the fire of London when it was the "French" who set the extra fires. Or the Chicago fire, (the Irish that time) or medieval Potsdam, ("The Jews" that time). Not embers rising on superheated air being dropped down wind of the fire.

Anybody see the pattern?

Local weather yesterday was 117F with steady 50mph winds. God lord that's barely creditable!

[Buttercup]

Horrible!!! :(

The fact that it is likely in some cases due to arson is unimaginably monstrous. :(

I hope the Australian gov't will rethink/rework their forest policies with regards to controlled burning and felling of old vegetation and etc. A friend from Australia blames radical environmentalists for this fiasco: They are opposed to any regular and routine cleanup [controlled burns and cutting] of old trees, scrub, bushes, etc. He's certain these failed policies are mostly to blame - HIS words, he's a resident.

I would quote his words and outrage verbatim, but that'd get me suspended!

[Josh]

I hope the Australian gov't will rethink/rework their forest policies with regards to controlled burning and felling of old vegetation and etc. A friend from Australia blames radical environmentalists for this fiasco: They are opposed to any regular and routine cleanup [controlled burns and cutting] of old trees, scrub, bushes, etc. He's certain these failed policies are mostly to blame - HIS words, he's a resident.

I would quote his words and outrage verbatim, but that'd get me suspended!

Seriously??? I live in Melbourne and what he's saying is plain wrong. There are ads on every year telling people how to clean up their houses. Country towns have mail drops about how to prepare their properties to ensure lower risk of fire.

Parks Victoria and the Country Fire Authority (CFA - the country fire dept) undertake back burning and clean-up operations before and during every fire season (whenever the weather permits). I know both metro fire fighters and CFA fire fighters who've been fighting these fires and have all said on days like that there's nothing that could have been done to stop it.

When you have a 46degC (118degF) day with 100+kph winds there's no amount of cleaning and back burning that's going to stop a fire - especially the ones that were deliberately lit. (except perhaps concreting the state).

Oddly enough, and as terrible as it sounds with such a loss of life, forest fires are good for the environment. A lot of Australian flora will not regenerate without such intense heat. Obviously the loss of life, etc is horrific though.

[timb]

Whenever there's a major bushfire there tends to be a knee-jerk "blame the greenies" response from some quarters. I'd differ from Josh in that I'm not entirely sure these fires are healthy or will lead to regeneration. With the climate changing the "equilibrium" vegetation of Victoria could be changing to a more semi-arid regime.

[Buttercup]

Seriously??? I live in Melbourne and what he's saying is plain wrong. There are ads on every year telling people how to clean up their houses. Country towns have mail drops about how to prepare their properties to ensure lower risk of fire.

Said friend resides in Cairns. That's quite a ways from you, I know.

Parks Victoria and the Country Fire Authority (CFA - the country fire dept) undertake back burning and clean-up operations before and during every fire season (whenever the weather permits).

That sounds more like it. :) My friend believes a particular political faction there seeks to stop any clearing/cleaning as "unnatural" and interfering with the workings of nature. :confused: I thought If that's so, they'd better change the policy! Of course likely his political persuasions color his perceptions [anti-the group he blames].

I know both metro fire fighters and CFA fire fighters who've been fighting these fires and have all said on days like that there's nothing that could have been done to stop it.

Wow. :(

Oddly enough, and as terrible as it sounds with such a loss of life, forest fires are good for the environment.

Which is why we have controlled burns.

[RalofTyr]

Australia needs consulting from firefighters from Southern California. We've managed to have a major fire about every are and not a lose of life measured in the hundreds.

[BigDon]

Australia needs consulting from firefighters from Southern California. We've managed to have a major fire about every are and not a lose of life measured in the hundreds.

117F and 50mph winds? No. Bad Ral. the Santa Anas are 90 and about 30mph with larger gusts at thier worst.

[Ronald Brak]

Stands of ecalyptus are a fire hazard in California. The southeast of Australia is covered with them. Under the conditions we are talking about they can explode. Literally explode. But if any Californians want to come and help they are more than welcome.

[Josh]

I don't think clearing eucalyptus trees is on the cards for any fire management plan. you know ... seeing as how the Koala populations are already endangered and all.

[AGN Fuel]

Australia needs consulting from firefighters from Southern California. We've managed to have a major fire about every are and not a lose of life measured in the hundreds.

With due respect, I don't think you appreciate the scale of these fires. So far, they have burned out some 360,000 hectares of bushland - that's just shy of 900,000 acres. They have come after weeks of high temperatures, including a record number of consecutive days over 40 degrees Celsius. And the wind was disastrous - not just exceptionally strong, but a change in wind direction turned the flanks of a number of controlled fires into new fire fronts that spread voraciously through tinder dry undergrowth. Survivors have spoken of the unbelievable speed of these fire fronts.

Australians are well and truly used to bushfires - they are an integral part of our summers in this beautiful but unforgiving country. While the loss of life is utterly horrific and Australia is in deep mourning, without the skill, courage and indefatigability of the CFA and volunteers it could well have been even worse given the horrendous conditions.

[megrfl]

This link is to a video of a firefighter giving a Koala a drink. The Koala was found in some burnt out woods. It's obvious from the video how special Koalas are to Australia.

http://player.video.news.com.au/news/#AChOHqKEQmKMfv52qA_TGucgz0BnnYkO

[Josh]

Australians are well and truly used to bushfires - they are an integral part of our summers in this beautiful but unforgiving country. While the loss of life is utterly horrific and Australia is in deep mourning, without the skill, courage and indefatigability of the CFA and volunteers it could well have been even worse given the horrendous conditions.

Bravo!! :clap:

[Josh]

Annnnnnnd some people have declared it to be because of anti-abortion laws. Ugh.
Sometimes I wish I weren't human...

;)

I think you mean "abortion Laws" .. not "anti-abortion laws".

[Musashi]

With due respect, I don't think you appreciate the scale of these fires. So far, they have burned out some 360,000 hectares of bushland - that's just shy of 900,000 acres. They have come after weeks of high temperatures, including a record number of consecutive days over 40 degrees Celsius. And the wind was disastrous - not just exceptionally strong, but a change in wind direction turned the flanks of a number of controlled fires into new fire fronts that spread voraciously through tinder dry undergrowth. Survivors have spoken of the unbelievable speed of these fire fronts.

Australians are well and truly used to bushfires - they are an integral part of our summers in this beautiful but unforgiving country. While the loss of life is utterly horrific and Australia is in deep mourning, without the skill, courage and indefatigability of the CFA and volunteers it could well have been even worse given the horrendous conditions.

Not to belittle these fires at all, I just wanted to point out that in the last 2 years, California has had about 1.3 million acres burn, and in the last decade, we have had two fires (or series of fires) that burned over 800,000 acres.

The 2007 fires were pushed on by Santa Anas reaching 60 mph. The 2008 fires had sustained temperatures of 115F (46C)

That said, there are two many factors to compare these fires side by side.

[RalofTyr]

My point being, that being prepared for immense fires is possible and capable. Saying that because a fire is too hot and large, is kind of a victim syndrome. California figured it out. You can control and fight these fires. Australia just needs the proper allocation of resources to do it.

[BigDon]

I have my eyes close right now because I'm not seeing grown men having a whizzing contest about who has the biggest fires. Especially at this time.

[Josh]

My point being, that being prepared for immense fires is possible and capable. Saying that because a fire is too hot and large, is kind of a victim syndrome. California figured it out. You can control and fight these fires. Australia just needs the proper allocation of resources to do it.
You're assuming that we don't. I'm pretty sure we do from what I've read and heard. As I recall, Fire Fighters from both Victoria and New South Wales went over to help fight the fires in California during that last big fire there. It's safe (I'd think) then to assume there is already a good line of communication between places that have yearly bush fires.

Saying "California figured it out" is one way of looking at it. Saying that California has thus far been very lucky is another.

At the same period two years ago, Victorian bushfires burned over 1.15 million hectares of land with only two deaths.

Sometimes, bad things happen.

[sarongsong]

...Saying that California has thus far been very lucky is another...Yep---Mother Nature is reloading as we speak; it's our rain and snow "season", which will put us behind the 8-ball again in a few months with all the new growth drying out.

[BigDon]

Raining right now too. Bitter cold by local standards as well.

[geonuc]

Just as Japanese and Californian (and others) seismologists and structural engineers consult with each other, I'd be very surprised if the CFA hasn't done so with their counterparts in the United States, and vice versa. Both countries have a wildfire problem and both countries have no doubt dedicated considerable resources to studying and controlling fires.

It also goes without saying - but it's good that people are saying it - that the skill, dedication and bravery of the firefighters makes all the difference.

I have a special place in my heart for Australia, having lived there for three years. And having experienced some really horrific fires during my twelve years in Orange County, California, I know the carnage these events can bring about.

[AGN Fuel]

You can control and fight these fires. Australia just needs the proper allocation of resources to do it.

Thanks for that. Perhaps if you have some free time later, you can teach us how to play the flute and build a box girder bridge as well.

[filrabat]

My heart and thoughts go out to Australia - whether for the fires in the SE or the floods and dengue fever in Queensland. I pray the Australians can tap into their inner strength and continue their support for each other in this time of great need.

NOW it's being spread by the 'net that its "Islamic terrorist"s who were starting the deliberate fires.

Where have I heard something like THAT before. Except maybe the fire of London when it was the "French" who set the extra fires. Or the Chicago fire, (the Irish that time) or medieval Potsdam, ("The Jews" that time). Not embers rising on superheated air being dropped down wind of the fire.

Anybody see the pattern?

Local weather yesterday was 117F with steady 50mph winds. God lord that's barely creditable!

Bigots, almost by their nature, are so hate-filled and/or paranoid that they care about hating others more than loving even their own kind. As disgusting as it is, it's still not surprising they will stoop to the point of exploiting tragedy to to stir up fear and paranoia against those they hate.

[Buttercup]

Last I've seen 5,000 people are homeless as a result. :(

I hope The Red Cross or similar major charity is stepping in.

[geonuc]

My sister sent me this - a 2.5 minute video showing CFA firefighters helping out a koala. Warning, although it's a nice video, the firefighter does utter one mild expletive.

http://player.video.news.com.au/news/#AChOHqKEQmKMfv52qA_TGucgz0BnnYkO

[Buttercup]

Oh yes, I heard about the rescued koala bear.

Of course loss of human life is first/foremost, but obviously a lot of animals suffered/died in this too. :(

[Josh]

Oh yes, I heard about the rescued koala bear.

Of course loss of human life is first/foremost, but obviously a lot of animals suffered/died in this too. :(
There are estimates of over a million native animals dying :(

[AGN Fuel]

Last I've seen 5,000 people are homeless as a result. :(

I hope The Red Cross or similar major charity is stepping in.

The Red Cross have been awesome. (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,27574,25040818-2862,00.html) The country is a little stunned at the moment, but everyone has been trying to give whatever help possible.

If I may, and on behalf of the Aussie contingent here on BAUT, sincere thanks to all those who have expressed their concern and support.

[Josh]

And to other Aussies on the board (mainly in vic ...), if you are able to house any dogs that have been left homeless (mainly from families who have lost their homes and need a place for their pets to live until they get back on their feet), let me know and I'll give you some contact info for people setting it up.

[geonuc]

And to other Aussies on the board (mainly in vic ...), if you are able to house any dogs that have been left homeless (mainly from families who have lost their homes and need a place for their pets to live until they get back on their feet), let me know and I'll give you some contact info for people setting it up.
A very good thought. I'd do it if I was living there.

We have a cat rescued from hurricane Katrina.

[badchap]

My point being, that being prepared for immense fires is possible and capable. Saying that because a fire is too hot and large, is kind of a victim syndrome. California figured it out. You can control and fight these fires. Australia just needs the proper allocation of resources to do it.

Thankyou, but it is really not that simple. I think you will find that California has not seen fires quite like this one.
They have said regarding these fires, along with conditions last Saturday, the weather changes and various fire fronts joining up and such, that fire behaviour was right off the scale.
Certainly there will be some lessons to be learnt from these fires, but that is still a fair way down the track, after much investigation by a whole swag of experts.

Australia is very experienced with fighting bushfires, and do share their considerable knowledge and expertise with other countries' agencies.

Thanks to others for their good wishes.

[AGN Fuel]

Just to agree with badchap's comments above in that the conditions were extraordinary. Temperatures that day in the region reached 48 degree celsius (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/07/2485183.htm) with almost no humidity (that's a tick over 118 fahrenheit), after a week of +40 degree days preceding it. Those sort of conditions make the bush almost shimmer as eucalyptus oil vapour fills the air from the ubiquitous gum trees. I heard a woman on the radio last night describing how the air itself seemed to be on fire.

Add gale force winds that change direction + criminal morons that think that deliberately lighting fires in dense bushland is a great joke, and you get what happened.

[Buttercup]

Re: Geonuc & Josh's comments/animals: I saw video last evening of a koala bear, apparently with scorched paws and stressed out, being bottle-fed water. It was holding the man's left hand as he held the bottle with his right; that poor little creature was sitting like a child, drinking and drinking. Very touching. :) It knew the man wanted to help.

[geonuc]

Re: Geonuc & Josh's comments/animals: I saw video last evening of a koala bear, apparently with scorched paws and stressed out, being bottle-fed water. It was holding the man's left hand as he held the bottle with his right; that poor little creature was sitting like a child, drinking and drinking. Very touching. :) It knew the man wanted to help.
That's the video I linked to earlier. Isn't that koala just the cutest thing? And it looked so confused. They don't move very fast, so a koala has no chance at all if the fire overruns its tree.

[Buttercup]

Hi geonuc: Sorry - I'm unable to download video on this computer, so didn't know it was same as your link. :) Yes, they're adorable.

AGN Fuel: Those sort of conditions make the bush almost shimmer as eucalyptus oil vapour fills the air from the ubiquitous gum trees. I heard a woman on the radio last night describing how the air itself seemed to be on fire.

Dang. :( The images of those crashed burned cars stays in my mind.

I'm glad to see [news link] lots of donations rolling in, and yes -- adopting homeless/orphaned pets is a good idea. Nice to see geonuc did that for a cat, after Katrina.

[Buttercup]

Update on Sam:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090212/ap_on_re_as/as_australia_wildfires_koala_rescued

SYDNEY – "Sam" the koala, the most famous furry survivor of Australia's worst-ever wildfires, is healing well thanks to the efforts of caretakers at a rescue shelter — and she even has a new boyfriend, "Bob."

You go girl! :D

has also won the affection of "Bob," another koala whose paws were scorched in the weekend's inferno, caretaker Lynn Raymond said Thursday.

"Bob is her protector — as soon as she is moved, he's on the move, too. It really looks like he's making sure she's OK"

How sweet. Seems a definite romance in the making.

Neither koala is likely to be healthy enough for release for at least four months, and are being comforted by caretakers who salve their scorched paws every few hours.

Both Sam and Bob were given painkillers when they first arrived, but they're off the drugs now, Raymond said. The two are still receiving antibiotics and have their bandages changed regularly to stave off infections.

But of course the terrible human toll is foremost. They're certain about arsonISTS involved. 25-year prison sentence for conviction. I think that's not enough of a penalty... :mad:

[BigDon]

Wow, you think they will make it to trial?

[Buttercup]

Probably not.

I was simply mentioning what sentencing they would face...

[geonuc]

Probably not.

I was simply mentioning what sentencing they would face...
I think BD was suggesting they may meet up with an unfortunate accident before reaching the courthouse?

[Buttercup]

Yes, geonuc. :)

And I'm turning over thoughts of maintaining innocent until proven guilty versus the desire for vigilanteeism definitely understandable desire].

Which debate I'm going to avoid [mostly because my blood pressure doesn't need a workout]. :(

[BigDon]

No, no, no, no I was not advocating their lynching!

I was going by what I knew of rural Australians. Lynching are not unknown in Australian history.

[Buttercup]

I didn't mean to imply you were advocating anything, BigDon.

[BigDon]

Oh, sorry.

[geonuc]

I didn't mean to imply you were advocating anything, BigDon.
Maybe I did. :eek:

(not really)

[Josh]

They've arrested two people already.

[RalofTyr]

Thankyou, but it is really not that simple. I think you will find that California has not seen fires quite like this one.
They have said regarding these fires, along with conditions last Saturday, the weather changes and various fire fronts joining up and such, that fire behaviour was right off the scale.
Certainly there will be some lessons to be learnt from these fires, but that is still a fair way down the track, after much investigation by a whole swag of experts.

Australia is very experienced with fighting bushfires, and do share their considerable knowledge and expertise with other countries' agencies.

Saying that your fire's bigger than mine is irrelevant. If eucalyptus oil vapour fills the air, then your authorities should have already been aware of that and implemented the proper procedures to ensure the amount of lives lost will not happen again, like maybe next time. But you all are saying, well, it's so big and it's so hot out there's nothing we can do, and you have your hands in your paints while people are dying.

Nothing's impossible. Difficult, yes, but impossible, no.

[badchap]

Saying that your fire's bigger than mine is irrelevant. If eucalyptus oil vapour fills the air, then your authorities should have already been aware of that and implemented the proper procedures to ensure the amount of lives lost will not happen again, like maybe next time. But you all are saying, well, it's so big and it's so hot out there's nothing we can do, and you have your hands in your paints while people are dying.

Nothing's impossible. Difficult, yes, but impossible, no.

Trying to point out that the conditions were extraordinary, and extreme is not irrelevant at all.


Some of the fires are still going, and some have been contained. The situation is still an ongoing one at this stage.
I'm confident that nobody has their hands in anything while people are dying.

As already mentioned, there is sure to be some hard lessons to come from this, and there will be a long running and thorough investigation yet to come, and there'll likely be more than enough recriminations to go around from more appropriate sources, when the time comes.

[Josh]

Saying that your fire's bigger than mine is irrelevant. If eucalyptus oil vapour fills the air, then your authorities should have already been aware of that and implemented the proper procedures to ensure the amount of lives lost will not happen again, like maybe next time. But you all are saying, well, it's so big and it's so hot out there's nothing we can do, and you have your hands in your paints while people are dying.

Nothing's impossible. Difficult, yes, but impossible, no.I'm pretty sure that's what they call hindsight. The procedures did cover all those problems, except (and this is the bit you seem to be missing in all this) no one foresaw the scale of these fires.

If things weren't done that should have been, don't you think there'd be a big uproar here about it? There isn't ...

You're comments are insulting and unwelcome.

[sarongsong]

...If eucalyptus oil vapour fills the air, then...authorities should have...implemented the proper procedures......which are?

[mike alexander]

Lots of things are impossible.

[geonuc]

You're comments are insulting and unwelcome.
I agree. To suggest that the authorities, firefighters and citizens of Australia have their "hands in their paints [sic] while people are dying" is beyond the pale.

I've experienced California wildfires. I've had my car packed and the pets rounded up, ready to flee when given the word while two major fires bore down on our community from different directions. California has some really, really bad fires. That said, the reports I'm seeing from Victoria tell of fires an order of magnitude higher. Lessons will surely be learned - by Australian fire officials and those from California. But right now, second-guessing and insulting an entire nation while fires burn is ... well, I'm not going to say it.

[kashi]

For you to tell us we need to learn is an insult. Even if it was true now is certainly an insensitive time to be bringing it up.

I concur 100% with Josh. I have lost 3 friends this week and RalofTyr's comments are deeply offensive to me. They serve only to demonstrate his ignorance about the rest of the world. People in SE Australia deal with bushfires all the time, usually without loss of life. This is of course rarely covered by US news which ignores the rest of the world except during major incidents like this. California is relatively lightly forested compared with Victoria. Combine dense Eucalypt forests with 48 degree (C) temperatures, 100 km/h winds and 10 years of below average rainfall and there's absolutely nothing people can do. The temperatures were hot enough to melt cars into pools of liquid. People perished with the most elaborate fire plans one can have.

[kashi]

Please donate to the Australian Red Cross: http://www.redcross.org.au/

[Buttercup]

Thank you Kashi for posting the link to the Australian Red Cross! Spares me a Google search.

[BigDon]

The opinions expressed by Ral are his alone and do not represent the views of the good people of the state of California. Like myself.

Josh, Kashi, Badchap, if I may point out "oxxo" who is currently posting in Conspiracy, is Australian, thus Ral is merely keeping the intellect level of the planet balanced.

[Swift]

Folks,
This is obviously a very emotional issue, particularly for the people of Australia. Please don't let this thread descend into naming calling of other members, no matter how you feel. Thanks,

[WalrusLike]

I am an Aussie from Queensland... and so not directly affected by the fires, but I do find one posters previous comments less than helpful... a bit annoying would be a mild way of saying it...

These fires were unprecedented in a land where bushfire is common. Good folk fought and died trying to deal with them. Folk who have grown up in that country fighting bushfires on a regular basis. Lets assume that the ill-advised comments were a misunderstanding and move on...

On another note... as a positive thing that I would like to see come out of this... I am hoping that this event might cause us to re-evaluate the style of housing we use in the bush (and the city for that matter...) and consider moving towards my personal hoby-horse.... Earth-bermed or underground homes.

In our eco challenged times, the benefits of a earth bermed house in terms of less CO2 emissions cooling and heating are not the only factor... in a bush fire they would be nearly immune to fire, apart from the issues involved in radiant heat and smoke and burning vapour... but they can be dealt with if considered in the initial design. I think the benefits of this style of building are many... but since it is my particular hobby horse I wont go on further about it.... I don't want to hijack this thread.

My thoughts... and my family's, go out to those affected by these terrible and shocking events... and in our global village even our good neighbours overseas have been touched by this tragedy.

[NosePicker]

The koala bears complicate dealing 'effectively' with eucalyptus fire hazard, as that's their home & salad bar.

[BigDon]

Export some koalas to us. Where I live they have groves of the stuff imported from the late 1800's. Though there was a big effort to have the eucalyptus removed as being non-native, that idea ran out of money., But of course only after the big, pretty, easy to get to groves were taken out.

[AGN Fuel]

The opinions expressed by Ral are his alone and do not represent the views of the good people of the state of California. Like myself.

Understood and appreciated. This country is in mourning at present, and like anyone in such situations, emotions can run high. The good wishes, obvious concern and empathy of the people on this board, such as yourself, is kindly received by those affected by this horrible event.

Josh, Kashi, Badchap, if I may point out "oxxo" who is currently posting in Conspiracy, is Australian, thus Ral is merely keeping the intellect level of the planet balanced.

Oh my goodness - I had no idea oxxo was an Aussie. :shifty: My sincere apologies to rational humans everywhere for him having slipped through the educational net of our nation...

[geonuc]

Export some koalas to us. Where I live they have groves of the stuff imported from the late 1800's. Though there was a big effort to have the eucalyptus removed as being non-native, that idea ran out of money., But of course only after the big, pretty, easy to get to groves were taken out.
I was just commenting to that effect, while my wife and I walked past the Atlanta zoo. They could take in plenty of koalas!

[Damien Evans]

Saying that your fire's bigger than mine is irrelevant. If eucalyptus oil vapour fills the air, then your authorities should have already been aware of that and implemented the proper procedures to ensure the amount of lives lost will not happen again, like maybe next time. But you all are saying, well, it's so big and it's so hot out there's nothing we can do, and you have your hands in your paints while people are dying.

Nothing's impossible. Difficult, yes, but impossible, no.

In that case, give us your plan for dealing with a firefront spreading over 50 kilometres in less than 15 minutes. That's a low estimate for what happened, by the way.

[HenrikOlsen]

I guess his plan is to get a time machine, a chain saw and a tanker of gasoline, then go back two years and cut down all the trees.

[RalofTyr]

The opinions expressed by Ral are his alone and do not represent the views of the good people of the state of California. Like myself.

Josh, Kashi, Badchap, if I may point out "oxxo" who is currently posting in Conspiracy, is Australian, thus Ral is merely keeping the intellect level of the planet balanced.

Well, most Californians think Australia is part of the E.U.


In that case, give us your plan for dealing with a firefront spreading over 50 kilometres in less than 15 minutes. That's a low estimate for what happened, by the way.

Um, 50KM in 15 minutes? At that speed, wouldn't the fire have burned down to the ocean in an hour or so?

The Australians should have had better fire counter measure. So, there's thousands of people living in a eucalyptus forest, which, apparently, eucalyptus trees are the most flammable trees on Earth and top that off, they're in a fire prone area, you'd think, someone would have thought to build fire break, or reduce the number of people living in harms way. Perhaps the government could have come up with effective evacuation techniques. In Oct. 2007, there were 6000 firefighters, National Guard Units and 3,000 convicts in Southern California to battle the multiple fires that started in 85mph winds on brush that hadn't seen a drop of rain in six months or more. California can figure it out. So can Victoria.

[Josh]

...................

This is the sort of stuff that made the hulk turn green.

[ToSeek]

The Australians should have had better fire counter measure. So, there's thousands of people living in a eucalyptus forest, which, apparently, eucalyptus trees are the most flammable trees on Earth and top that off, they're in a fire prone area, you'd think, someone would have thought to build fire break, or reduce the number of people living in harms way. Perhaps the government could have come up with effective evacuation techniques. In Oct. 2007, there were 6000 firefighters, National Guard Units and 3,000 convicts in Southern California to battle the multiple fires that started in 85mph winds on brush that hadn't seen a drop of rain in six months or more. California can figure it out. So can Victoria.

If you post the same basic thought in this thread again after being repeatedly told why it's both inappropriate and incorrect, it will be treated as trolling, and you will be permanently banned.

ToSeek
BAUT Forum Administrator

[BigDon]

What's the latest word on the fires now guys?

[WalrusLike]

Unbelievable... some folk are just unstoppable in their ignorance.


I will be using the 'Ignore this user' feature for Ral just as soon as I can work out how to.... :confused:

[WalrusLike]

Big Don, a good source for the Victorian fires is the Melbourne Age newspaper (Melbourne is the capital of state of Victoria).

Melbourne Age newspaper story (http://www.theage.com.au/national/many-still-missing-18-days-after-black-saturday-fires-20090225-8hf0.html).

Eighteen days after the Black Saturday bushfires killed hundreds in Victoria, many people are still listed as missing, police say.

Bushfire Appeal: 1800 811 700

Superintendent Rod Collins from Victoria Police told journalists it could be a month before the names of some of the missing were confirmed dead.

Despite being missing for weeks, those thought to have been in fire areas and still not located are not included in the official death toll, which stands at 210.

"Working through the DNA, et cetera, it takes a little bit of time to narrow down those that are believed, and probably came from the fire, against those that might have been in the fire area unexpectedly," Superintendent Collins said.

"My understanding from the last briefing is that is getting to a smaller, manageable number. I am believing that is in the 20s to 30s range," he said.

However, a Victoria Police spokeswoman said there was no confirmation of that number.

Superintendent Collins cautioned that not all of those believed missing in the fires necessarily died in the inferno.

He said some of those in the police database may have been listed as missing more than once under different names, or not even been in the fire area.

"We are getting to a stage where, hopefully, at the end of the process we will be able to work out there might be a few that are unaccountable for," he said.

"As far as the names of the people getting released, that could be a month or so before the names are released," he said.

Meanwhile, authorities warned Victorians that bad bushfire weather was predicted for Friday.

Emergency Services Commissioner Bruce Esplin said that while conditions were not expected to be as bad as Black Saturday, people should be prepared More text followed... see site for full story.

[BigDon]

Unbelievable... some folk are just unstoppable in their ignorance.


I will be using the 'Ignore this user' feature for Ral just as soon as I can work out how to.... :confused:

I know the feeling...

[SolusLupus]

Unbelievable... some folk are just unstoppable in their ignorance.


I will be using the 'Ignore this user' feature for Ral just as soon as I can work out how to.... :confused:

Go to their profile page. Then go under "user lists", at the very top, and "add to ignore list".

It's right under their name, in big bold letters, and their ranking.

[WalrusLike]

Done. Thank you Lonewolf, and thanks Don.

[SolusLupus]

No problem!

[HenrikOlsen]

My point being, that being prepared for immense fires is possible and capable. Saying that because a fire is too hot and large, is kind of a victim syndrome. California figured it out. You can control and fight these fires. Australia just needs the proper allocation of resources to do it.
Seeing how California is the current place for uncontrolled fires, it looks like it took only three months to prove RalofTyr was completely wrong.

[Gillianren]

Seeing how California is the current place for uncontrolled fires, it looks like it took only three months to prove RalofTyr was completely wrong.

Or, you know, my entire childhood, wherein the news regularly told of us uncontrolled fires.

[HenrikOlsen]

Or, you know, my entire childhood, wherein the news regularly told of us uncontrolled fires.
Ah, but his claim was that California has figured it out now, not that they had in your childhood, so those memories doesn't actually discount his claim.

[Gillianren]

Ah, but his claim was that California has figured it out now, not that they had in your childhood, so those memories doesn't actually discount his claim.

Sorry--my mistake. We could ask my mom, I suppose; she's still down there.

[JonClarke]

My point being, that being prepared for immense fires is possible and capable. Saying that because a fire is too hot and large, is kind of a victim syndrome. California figured it out. You can control and fight these fires. Australia just needs the proper allocation of resources to do it.

Al;though I am about to leave I could not let this statement stand.

Australia devotes a great deal of resources to fire flighting and research and there is considerable and extensive expertise. Australian firefighters at times go to the US to help deal with fires. I suspect that Californian fire fighters could learn as much or more from their Australian counterparts as the reverse.

Jon

[geonuc]

I don't think there should be any doubt as to the abilities and dedication of Australian firefighters and the idea that California had mastered wildfires is proved wrong almost every year.

Santa Barbara is hardly remote countryside and still this happens. Come rainy season (something both Australia and California desperately need), fire-denuded hills will mean mud slides will be a problem again.