panic attacks, need some advice

[some dumb kid]

since about june of last year i have been having panic attacks about the end of the world, it started with the LHC (wich after doing reserch i know is [removed]) then the whole 2012 thing (wich after reading ians articals i know its [removed]) and now ive moved on to undebunkable things (like nuclear war, global warming, cybernetic revolt etc.) dose anyone have any advice on how to calm down?
ive tried the whole "you cant control it so you shouldent worry" thing but it dosent work!

[Doodler]

since about june of last year i have been having panic attacks about the end of the world, it started with the LHC (wich after doing reserch i know is [removed]) then the whole 2012 thing (wich after reading ians articals i know its [removed]) and now ive moved on to undebunkable things (like nuclear war, global warming, cybernetic revolt etc.) dose anyone have any advice on how to calm down?
ive tried the whole "you cant control it so you shouldent worry" thing but it dosent work!


Drink. Heavily.

Can't say I haven't had my own panic attacks on a similar vein. After coming face to face with human mortality up close and personal, I would wake up in cold sweats over the idea that one day I'm gonna close my eyes and never open them again. No afterlife, no eternal reward. I saw the beginning of consciousness, and someday, not too many years from now, I'm going to see the end of it.

Bottom line is, you've got to look at any day you wake up and see the Sun rise as a good one. If the world burns tomorrow, you gotta be able to go back to dust satisfied that you made the most of the time you had, no matter how much you had.

Otherwise, you're just going to be miserable no matter what you do.

[Gillianren]

From a technical perspective, what you are having are anxiety attacks, not panic attacks. Anxiety attacks have a cause; panic attacks do not. I tell you this as someone with long, long experience in panic attacks.

The first thing you should do when you feel one starting is sit down and start long breaths. Have an imaging technique--think of a happy time or place, and when you feel yourself starting to tense up, imagine that place. Keep taking deep breaths. If you can, have a place where you feel safe and go there physically. I can't guarantee that this will stop them, but it should help, at the very least.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you should seek out therapy. It's obvious to me that you have a tendency to find things to be afraid of. I don't want to diagnose you; I'm not qualified. But I think you should talk to someone who is.

[PetersCreek]

If you're experiencing genuine panic/anxiety attacks and/or if they are negatively impacting your daily life, my advice is to seek medical help.

If you're just getting yourself a little worked up over these things, try to think them through. For instance, you mentioned "cybernetic revolt". How anxious should you be about that since we don't have cybernetic technology capable of staging a revolt? As for other real but relatively remote threats, try to put them in perspective. You probably do at least a dozen things each day without even thinking about them, that are statistically more likely to cause you harm...things like crossing the street, taking a shower, or driving/riding on the freeway. If you can handle these daily risks without undue fear, you should be able to get a grip on the others.

But again, if these things still bother you greatly, find some help.

[orionjim]

I agree with Peters Creek, see a doctor.

I would suggest seeing a Neurologist, if there is a physical problem they are the ones that will find it. If they don’t find the problem they will suggest a Psychiatrist.

I don’t know how you determined you were having panic attacks; if you did it yourself the odds are you are probably wrong.

As far as someone giving you a real solution online would really be questionable. See a doctor.

Of course you could stop reading all the negative things that you seem to be attracted to, the problem might go away. It’s like the guy complaining that his finger hurts when he hits it with a hammer. The solution would be to quit hitting it with a hammer.

[Gillianren]

I would suggest seeing a Neurologist, if there is a physical problem they are the ones that will find it. If they don’t find the problem they will suggest a Psychiatrist.

Mmm. I suggest trying to rule out psychological problems first, since it seems very unlikely to me that it's neurological. Further, you're not going to get to see a psychiatrist without seeing a therapist first. There aren't enough psychiatrists to go around.

[novaderrik]

If you're experiencing genuine panic/anxiety attacks and/or if they are negatively impacting your daily life, my advice is to seek medical help.

If you're just getting yourself a little worked up over these things, try to think them through. For instance, you mentioned "cybernetic revolt". How anxious should you be about that since we don't have cybernetic technology capable of staging a revolt? As for other real but relatively remote threats, try to put them in perspective. You probably do at least a dozen things each day without even thinking about them, that are statistically more likely to cause you harm...things like crossing the street, taking a shower, or driving/riding on the freeway. If you can handle these daily risks without undue fear, you should be able to get a grip on the others.

But again, if these things still bother you greatly, find some help.

good going- you probably just made Some Dumb Kid afraid to get out of bed in the morning- or at the very least afraid to cross the street or ride in a car..

my suggestion would be to find something to occupy your time with wholesome goodness so you don't have the extra time to think about all the bad things that could kill you or make you into a quadriplegic hooked to a feeding tube every day..

[HenrikOlsen]

Drink. Heavily.
Definitely disregard Doodler's moronic suggestion to self-medicate, whether with alcohol or any other substance suggested by anyone who isn't a doctor who has actually examined you.

[orionjim]

Mmm. I suggest trying to rule out psychological problems first, since it seems very unlikely to me that it's neurological. Further, you're not going to get to see a psychiatrist without seeing a therapist first. There aren't enough psychiatrists to go around.

The problem is there is a connection between epilepsy and anxiety, a psychiatrist or therapist only treats the symptoms and really don’t look for a physical cause. If a person has a problem with certain types of epilepsy that leads to anxiety; it will never be properly diagnosed by the psychiatrist or therapist.

See: http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/mood_anxiety

Of course I am not a doctor; my only knowledge on the subject is I have epilepsy that was misdiagnosed by many doctors. But heck if you like lying on a couch and talking to someone then go see a therapist.

[tdvance]

The problem is there is a connection between epilepsy and anxiety, a psychiatrist or therapist only treats the symptoms and really don’t look for a physical cause. If a person has a problem with certain types of epilepsy that leads to anxiety; it will never be properly diagnosed by the psychiatrist or therapist.

See: http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/mood_anxiety

Of course I am not a doctor; my only knowledge on the subject is I have epilepsy that was misdiagnosed by many doctors. But heck if you like lying on a couch and talking to someone then go see a therapist.


I think your situation is the rarer one--most of the time panic attacks are just that--and Zoloft, for example, combined with cognitive or behavior therapy is what's needed.

[orionjim]

I think your situation is the rarer one--most of the time panic attacks are just that--and Zoloft, for example, combined with cognitive or behavior therapy is what's needed.

Like I said I’m not a doctor. If you are then “Some Dumb Kid” should follow your advice.

[tdvance]

I'm not that kind of doctor--but I have been treated successfully for panic attacks.

[jrkeller]

I think the first step is to go your regular doctor, especially if it has been a while. If you do go one medicine, then you'll have a pre-medicine data point for weight, blood pressure etc, so that any changes can be noticed.

That's what my doctor recommends.

[LaurelHS]

Do you have times when you're not thinking about the end of the world? Because sometimes when you're having these intrusive thoughts, you can tell yourself, "Okay, this will pass, my mind will move on from it, it's happened before." This is just a temporary solution of course, but it can help.

I also think it's a good idea to stop reading about things if you know they're going to upset you, or at least cut back on reading about those things.

And talking to your regular doctor is a good idea. That's what I did when I started having problems with anxiety (I still have these problems but things are better than they used to be).

[Romanus]

Gosh, this post could've been written by me...

My advice is terribly unhelpful: if--like me--you're an indefatigable worrywort, the only thing you can do is avoid those things that you know will set you off. If you can't do that, besides therapy, I can't think of anything other than (as Gillian said) finding some place to sit down, breathe deeply, and mentally tell yourself again and again that what you're worrying about is baloney, even if you're convinced it isn't. I know it's hard to do when you think you're going to die, faint, puke, or all three at once, but for me it's all that can get me through the wave.

In any event, I fully sympathize with your condition, and wish you the best of luck.

[LotusExcelle]

Panic attacks are often helped by medication - prescribed by a doctor and regulated. Do not try to self-diagnose or self-medicate. If you really suspect a true panic attack vs, as Gillian said, anxiety attacks then I'd suggest at least seeing a doctor about it. Panic attacks can send your blood pressure through the roof and should be taken as a medical issue.

[orionjim]

I think the first step is to go your regular doctor, especially if it has been a while. If you do go one medicine, then you'll have a pre-medicine data point for weight, blood pressure etc, so that any changes can be noticed.

That's what my doctor recommends.

That's good advice.

[Gillianren]

I'm not that kind of doctor--but I have been treated successfully for panic attacks.

Ha. I have been treated unsuccessfully for 'em, but I've learned enough about how to get through them that I can manage even though the meds don't help. At any rate, it's not as though either of us are coming at this without anything on which to base our opinions.

[geonuc]

Another non-doctor here. Just wanted to add that I've recently had some concerns about weird brain activity and my doctors insisted that they rule out neurological causes before moving to the psychological arena.

I'll also add my voice to those of others - if you can't quell the panic/anxiety (I think Gillian's right) attacks on your own, seek help.

[Ozzy]

I agree that you should visit your GP and discuss your feelings with him. He may recommend a therapist, and he may prescribe some medication. Just be aware that different meds affect different people differently (hows that for gooderer Anglish). You should try the pills two weeks, and if you are not happy with the results go back to the GP. There are wide variety available, and you may have to do a little trial and error until you get it right.

Until then I agree with Gillianren about breathing, but suggest you take it a bit further. Breathe in for the count of 1, hold your breath for 1, and exhale for 1. Do this for half a dozen times.
Then move on to twos ... in 2, hold 2, out 2.
Then threes ... then fours ... then fives.
This will slow your breathing down.
Focus on your counting. This will stop the whirlwind of thoughts.
This is also a form of meditation.

When you have established a regular breathing pattern of 5's, you need to think about 1 simple thing (I focus on my big toes. See my posts in Babbling re: I'm a weirdo).

It can be anything but it must be simple i.e your thumbnail. In your mind just think thumbnail, my thumbnail, I have a thumbnail, thumbnail, my thumbnail.

This simple single focus will give your mind a chance to rest, and allow your fight or flight response to calm down. Repeat as often as needed.

As an intelligent person you can experience the joys of savouring the future potential of mankind, but the downside is also being aware of our potential for creating global havoc. When you have lived with the knowledge of our potential for global destruction for a couple of decades, you start to think ... well if it hasn't happened already, there is a good chance that it wont happen at all.

Chin up old bean, your anxiety is a sign of your intelligence.:)

[some dumb kid]

im sorry i left ALOT of details out, i have seen a shrink and she gave me some advice on calming down. (no meds but thats ok by me) my attacks have gotten way better (they used to happen every day, but now its more like every other week) also i have found something that makes me forget about the world: world of warcraft :)

[gzhpcu]

im sorry i left ALOT of details out, i have seen a shrink and she gave me some advice on calming down. (no meds but thats ok by me) my attacks have gotten way better (they used to happen every day, but now its more like every other week) also i have found something that makes me forget about the world: world of warcraft :)
Not so sure if a violent video game is what the doctor ordered... Why not something less violent?

[LotusExcelle]

In the vein of gaming to calm down I've found Flight SImulator (any version but I use X) calms me waayyyy down after a stressful day.

[Gillianren]

You should try the pills two weeks, and if you are not happy with the results go back to the GP.

Wrong, I'm afraid. Some medications may take as long as six to eight weeks to start showing positive benefit. Oh, the side effects start right away, but if you tried the meds for two weeks, decided they didn't work, and went back to your doctor, your doctor would almost certainly tell you to give it another month or so. Of course, if the side effects are intolerable--and I've had that happen--that's different. There was one medication that I was on for perhaps six days, and that only because it took some time to get in contact with someone authorized to tell me to go off it.

Oh, and there's another one I'd like to stress--if your doctor puts you on psychiatric medication, do not go off it without consulting that doctor, especially if you've been on it for a while. A lot of the drugs need to be weaned out of your system slowly. Besides, if you're feeling better, that's just a sign that the meds are doing their job, not necessarily that you don't need the meds anymore.

[tdvance]

Ha. I have been treated unsuccessfully for 'em, but I've learned enough about how to get through them that I can manage even though the meds don't help. At any rate, it's not as though either of us are coming at this without anything on which to base our opinions.

My next-door neighbor currently takes 200mg Zoloft, maximum legal dose (since studies show if 200mg doesn't do it, more won't either) and still fights it--it's not always successful, but usually is. But it's a lot worse for her without the Zoloft. DC area seems to be a prime location for panic disorder, for some strange reason.

[tdvance]

Wrong, I'm afraid.

it definitely takes more than 2 weeks, for lots of reasons. Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitors take 2 weeks to start working, to begin with. That stops an internal source of panic attacks, but there's still the conditioning, where for example a panic attack at a train station leads to train stations triggering panic attacks. It takes time to un-condition these triggers--and that's where cognative/behavior therapy can help the most. (a lot of is is advice like: ok, now that you're taking Zoloft, go visit the train station more to desensitize yourself to the trigger).

[Gillianren]

I was on Zoloft for a while. It made me horribly nauseated, and when I wasn't ill, I was asleep. But then, straight antidepressants are a dicey thing to put someone like me on in the first place. They're contraindicated for my condition, but no one wanted to properly diagnose me; they were ignoring, or at least forgetting, some of my symptoms.

I have almost constantly found therapy to be a great help. (I've had a couple of lousy therapists, I'll admit, but other than that.) I don't think most people need medication. I stand by my statement that the neurological possibilities are very rare compared to the psychological ones. Having someone to talk to about it for an hour a week, someone whose whole job is to help you, is far better.

[PetersCreek]

I was on Zoloft briefly a number of years ago and had a reaction the doc hadn't heard about. My TMJ muscles cramped something awful.

[orionjim]

Another non-doctor here. Just wanted to add that I've recently had some concerns about weird brain activity and my doctors insisted that they rule out neurological causes before moving to the psychological arena.

...


The reason you rule out the neurological causes first has to do with what the possible causes are. Some of the causes don’t give you the luxury of wasting time. How rare the causes are have absolutely nothing to do with where you should look first.

Your doctor understands this.

This thread is a classic case of why you should see a real doctor, it doesn’t matter how well meaning some people are; they are not doctors.

[LotusExcelle]

I was briefly on Paxil and Effexor. Both SSRI class and both had some damnable side effects on me.

[Swift]

Im sorry i left ALTO of details out, i have seen a shrink and she gave me some advice on calming down. (no meds but thats ok by me) my attacks have gotten way better (they used to happen every day, but now its more like every other week) also i have found something that makes me forget about the world: world of warcraft :)
sdk,
I'll add one other thought. Though I don't have panic or anxiety attacks in any clinical sense, I do recall a time in my life, in my early and mid-teens, that I had similar feelings to what you seem to be having. I think its that time of life when you realize that one, you are mortal, and two, there are a whole bunch of bad things going on in the Universe that you don't have any control over. I think many people start really thinking about the nature of the world and sometimes we fixate too much on the bad side. Just keep in mind that this is pretty normal and a lot of people go through the same stuff.

That's not to say to ignore the advice others have given you here. I think its good that you've talked to a doctor already and it seems things have gotten better. Certainly, if these fears get in the way of you doing what you want to do, you should seek further help.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[LaurelHS]

I was on Paxil for awhile and my side effects weren't too bad. I was nauseous at first and then I had a decreased appetite for awhile. I lost some weight from this but I wasn't emaciated or anything. And I went off it very gradually so I didn't have any withdrawal symptoms. But it's not a miracle cure either.

[Gillianren]

I don't remember why I went off Paxil. It was years ago. I do know they didn't bother trying me on Effexor.

[geonuc]

The reason you rule out the neurological causes first has to do with what the possible causes are. Some of the causes don’t give you the luxury of wasting time. How rare the causes are have absolutely nothing to do with where you should look first.

Your doctor understands this.

This thread is a classic case of why you should see a real doctor, it doesn’t matter how well meaning some people are; they are not doctors.
Thanks. I know why my doctors advocated what they did.

As to people seeing 'real' doctors, I believe several us on the thread who are relating relevant personal experiences also first stated up front that the OP might want to seek medical help. Please don't make it seem like we're all playing doctor.

[orionjim]

...

As to people seeing 'real' doctors, I believe several us on the thread who are relating relevant personal experiences also first stated up front that the OP might want to seek medical help. Please don't make it seem like we're all playing doctor.

Sorry; I certainly didn’t mean that. I found your post was saying what I had been trying to say earlier, but said it better. BTW, you weren’t playing doctor; you gave some good advice.

What I was attempting to do in that post was to convey that some causes of the symptoms need immediate attention.

Jim

[Argos]

I was briefly on Paxil and Effexor. Both SSRI class and both had some damnable side effects on me.

Psychiatrists generally think in terms of drugs. Nasty ones [Most of them have pretty nasty effects]. Once I tried to consult a psychiatrist for a mild anxiety. It took me just one session to see how bad their rationale is. Needless to say I abandoned the idea, and didn´t even attend the next session. Now I live with my doubts and fears and try to make the most of life as it is. I would recommend a Psychiatrist only for people with severe depression and people who´re a menace for society or for themselves.

A behavioural therapist would be a better choice. Or, alternatively, a talk with a calm, balanced and joyful scientist. I think all you need is talk.

BUT if you could just rationally understand the magnitude of the universe, the transitory nature of things, our lack of control over the most basic elements of reality, our meaningless proportion, the lack of purpose of our existence, you´d be far better off. Give it a try.

All things must pass. Even stars, galaxies and the universe itself [refer to Proton decay]. Abandon all hope and enjoy the time that´s left for you.

[mugaliens]

Drink. Heavily.

Well, that'll work until the liver doesn't...

[geonuc]

Sorry; I certainly didn’t mean that. I found your post was saying what I had been trying to say earlier, but said it better. BTW, you weren’t playing doctor; you gave some good advice.

What I was attempting to do in that post was to convey that some causes of the symptoms need immediate attention.

Jim
Sorry for the misunderstanding. :)

[dodecahedron]

Begin a course of psychological therapy.
Stop watching the news. Read it. The former is porn with the sole purpose of entertaining viewers and generating advertising revenue rather than actually convey anything more than a superficial understanding of world events peppered with sound bites.
Finally stop looking for this kind of advice on the internet especially in forums regardless of their erudation (like this one).