Machu Picchu

[steffanie]

Hey everyone,

I am planning to plan a trip to Machu Picchu in Peru hopefully by the end of the year, i will be going it alone as my bf has no interest in such an expedition. I have looked up various packages i could travel with and they are all around the same price tag and itinerary, my query is about fitness.

It's eight thousand feet above sea leval so i am already feeling concerned as to how fit a person needs to be to enjoy the trek but also not feel under pressure. I cannot seem to imagine this altitude.
I would say i would be of average fitness (i think) but should i be training at the gym for this holiday?
Has anybody any experience or advise they could lend?

Much appreciated

Steffanie.

[gzhpcu]

Hey everyone,

I am planning to plan a trip to Machu Picchu in Peru hopefully by the end of the year, i will be going it alone as my bf has no interest in such an expedition. I have looked up various packages i could travel with and they are all around the same price tag and itinerary, my query is about fitness.

It's eight thousand feet above sea leval so i am already feeling concerned as to how fit a person needs to be to enjoy the trek but also not feel under pressure. I cannot seem to imagine this altitude.
I would say i would be of average fitness (i think) but should i be training at the gym for this holiday?
Has anybody any experience or advise they could lend?

Much appreciated

Steffanie.
A friend of mine went years ago. I think a bit of gym training (exercise bike) would be helpful...

[hhEb09'1]

I would say i would be of average fitness (i think) but should i be training at the gym for this holiday?
Has anybody any experience or advise they could lend?
With average fitness, you'll be OK. However, if you're not currently enjoying regular physical exercise, you should be. Start now. :)

[jfribrg]

8,000 feet should not be too much trouble. If you will be doing lots of hiking, you should probably do some hiking now, and don't expect to be able to hike as fast at altitude, but IMO you will be low enough that you don't need to do anything special.

A couple of years ago, I did a vacation in the Rocky Mountains. I got up to 12,500 feet. I read a warning in my travel guide book that I might feel somewhat lightheaded when I got out of the car, but it didn't feel any different. I suspect that smokers and others with limited lung capacity might have a problem, but not a healthy person. My kids decided to run around the parking lot to see how long it would take to get out of breath. They didn't. When we went hiking, the altitude was definitely noticeable, but we took our time and had no problems.


Enjoy your trip.

[steffanie]

Yes i have been warned about altitude sickness and having to acclimatize for a day before moving up further. I don't smoke thankfully. Seems altitude sickness would apply if Everest were involved but obviously not! I guess people react differently to less oxygen.

There are plenty of hiking area's in Ireland i just don't want to do them really. But, failing to plan is planning to fail. People turn back from the Inca trail alot, especially at day 2. I don't want to end up giving up after travelling so far and shelling out 1800euro.

[gzhpcu]

In that case, bite the bullet and train...:)

[Francisco]

I guess people react differently to less oxygen.

In my experience, that is true. Response to altitude is a very individual thing. Being in excellent physical condition is no guarantee that you won't have problems.

I'd say most people will be fine at 8,000 feet, but a small number will have problems. I think almost everyone will feel it, if engaging in any kind of vigorous activity (like hiking), but most will manage. They only sure way I know of to find out if you'll be alright is to go to that altitude - if you find yourself in the neighborhood of the Alps or the Pyrenees anytime soon, you might experiment :) Other than that, the main thing that seems to help me (I do fine at 8,000 feet, I really start to feel it at 13,000 feet if I haven't acclimated) is to make sure you eat and drink properly. Funny things can happen when you are hiking at altitude, people just stop eating even when they need it badly. I think a certain percentage of cases of what is usually called altitude sickness are really dehydration. So I'd say, be in good shape (helps, but no guarantee), and make sure you keep hydrated and nourished. That should improve your odds, although I don't think there is any way short of going to that altitude to know for sure how you'll react.

Enjoy your trip!

[steffanie]

I won't be in the neighbourhood of the Alps or the Pyrenees but Irelands tallest mountain is 3,406ft and it is pretty much on my doorstep. I have driven passed alot but never ventured up. I am now very concerned at the difference in height from 3,406ft - 8,000ft!

[crosscountry]

8000 feet won't bother a healthy person. I get tired more easily at that altitude as most people will. Altitude sickness is usually reserved for when there is very little air - 14000 feet is more common to see people get headaches or worse.

[Francisco]

I won't be in the neighbourhood of the Alps or the Pyrenees but Irelands tallest mountain is 3,406ft and it is pretty much on my doorstep. I have driven passed alot but never ventured up. I am now very concerned at the difference in height from 3,406ft - 8,000ft!

Well, sorry to have contributed to that concern :(

Here is the wikipedia page on altitude sickness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude_sickness

I think odds are, if you are in good shape, you should have no problems. You might be in the small percentage of people who do have problems at lower altitudes. Appropriately enough, the article cites 8,000 feet as the starting point where significant numbers of people start to have problems, but it notes that some otherwise healthy people start to have symptoms even at 6,500. The article lists a few preventative steps, although some of these should be obvious (don't drink alcohol). But by and large, if you do happen to be one of the more susceptible people, there isn't a whole lot you can do about it even if you know in advance.

You don't mention why people turn back on the second day; I wonder if many of them are having problems with strenuous hiking rather than with altitude per se.

But, "don't worry" may be the best approach. Odds are, you won't have any significant problem, and if you are one of the unfortunate people susceptible to altitude sickness at low altitude, there isn't a great deal you can do about it anway.

[clint]

I think the Inca trail is overrated.

The train from Cuzco to Machu Pichu offers an amazing ride,
and there's enough opportunity for a little hike once you get off.

[cosmocrazy]

Yes i have been warned about altitude sickness and having to acclimatize for a day before moving up further. I don't smoke thankfully. Seems altitude sickness would apply if Everest were involved but obviously not! I guess people react differently to less oxygen.

There are plenty of hiking area's in Ireland i just don't want to do them really. But, failing to plan is planning to fail. People turn back from the Inca trail alot, especially at day 2. I don't want to end up giving up after travelling so far and shelling out 1800euro.

Doing exercise prior to this trip would be very beneficial any how regardless how the altitude affected you. Some people are more tolerant to high altitude than others. But being fit and healthy means you can walk further, enjoy the hikes better and if the altitude does affect you slightly your body will be better equipped to cope with the change. Get some cardiovascular fitness training in, it will be worth it! Lots of pro athletes go and train at high altitude so their bodies can be more efficient using the much need oxygen. No matter what, you will feel better and the gains are high anyway. :)

[steffanie]

Have you been Clint?

[steffanie]

Cosmocrazy i am starting my training program tomorrow after work:D Alot of cardio methinks. I will soon know how realistic my fitness leval is! I have a brief flash back of the Brigid Jones movie of her falling off the exersise bike after 5 minutes:lol:

[cosmocrazy]

Cosmocrazy i am starting my training program tomorrow after work:D Alot of cardio methinks. I will soon know how realistic my fitness level is! I have a brief flash back of the Brigid Jones movie of her falling off the exercise bike after 5 minutes:lol:

:lol: that made me laugh, about the Bridget Jones movie!!:lol:

Thats great stuff, that you are keen and dedicated enough to get some exercise done! You will feel the benefits after a couple of wks i promise! :)

[HenrikOlsen]

You don't mention why people turn back on the second day; I wonder if many of them are having problems with strenuous hiking rather than with altitude per se.
It's also quite possible they are experienced hikers but not used to height so they picked their usual, but for the height wrong, tempo for the first day and exhaust themselves.

[Van Rijn]

It's also quite possible they are experienced hikers but not used to height so they picked their usual, but for the height wrong, tempo for the first day and exhaust themselves.

Yes, you don't need altitude sickness to just get exhausted at higher altitude. I remember many years ago when my family moved to Albuquerque (about a mile up) after living a long time at about sea level. Especially at the beginning, a quick run could leave you breathless, and extended activity wasn't so extended.

At one point when we visited the Sandia mountain peak (about 10,000 feet up) my mother made the mistake of running to the car to get out of the cold and wet. She wasn't used to it, and spent several minutes getting her breath back.

The moral is: If you're going to do a lot of activity at altitude, try to build up to it, and be a bit careful when you get there.

[flynjack1]

I climb 14000 foot Colorado mountain peaks every year. I have been taking my family up these peaks for years for summer recreation. My advice is thus: do get some exersize, spend as much time as possible at altitudes around 8000 feet prior to an extended time above 12500, eat lots of carbohydrates while at altitude and of course stay hydrated too. Additionally, take some electrolytes to add to your water.

Read up on altitude sickness so that you are aware of the symptoms. Here in the mountain west of the US they advise descending below 8000 feet if you experience acute symptoms. My experience with various climbers would verify this. The best thing you can do to adjust quickly is light exercise at lower altitude around 8000 followed by good rest and nurishment. At 16000 feet you will be breathing roughly half the oxygen that you are accustomed too. Fitness is helpful but the suseptablility to altitude sickness is very individual and varies even with the same individual. Spending a day above 12000 or so then returning to lower altitudes for rest will help your body to adjust. I usually try to get some hiking in at the 12000 foot level the day before I go for the peak at 14000. I live at 6000 feet so my adjustment may be a little quicker. Have heart though, I took my wife from sea level to summit 14300 in three days and she did just fine.

[dodecahedron]

It's no big deal. Moved to Colorado Springs 6k feet above sea level when I was 300 pounds. Sure I rediscovered the joys of sitting but it's no big deal. Just drink lots of water and don't overextend yourself. When you're five digits above sea level things can be a bit hairy.

[steffanie]

The heights you guys have described is awesome. 14000ft peak! What is Everest?
Eating carbs won't be a problem:D I wasn't able to run for fifteen minutes today on the tread mill before i nearly collapsed, my heart rate was up around 180pm and i did feel under pressure towards the end.
I guess the best training is to get out and hike. The highest peak in Ireland like i said is 3,406ft so its the highest i can go!

I read that Altitude sickness is not fully understood, they don't understand why people react the way they do. I have seen documentaries on people attempting to summit Everest and having to be carried down having gone into a coma and being near death. It is a scary thought that climbing could do that to you.

[jfribrg]

FYI, Everest is over 29,000.

Since you can't hike above 3,600, maybe you can take an open cockpit flight from Ireland to Peru, or get permission to open the window on your plane while you're cruising at 50,000 feet. After that, 8,000 feet will be nothing in comparison.

[لطفيّ]

FYI, Everest is over 29,000.

And the oxygen pressure is approximately 1/3 the pressure at sea level.

Since you can't hike above 3,600, maybe you can take an open cockpit flight from Ireland to Peru, or get permission to open the window on your plane while you're cruising at 50,000 feet. After that, 8,000 feet will be nothing in comparison.

I think if you ask permission to open a window on a commercial airplane, you might need to ask permission to do almost anything for some time after that :(

[mugaliens]

Hi, Steffanie. I've hiked a few peaks in my time, including to 14,115 ft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikes_Peak). For that, we began at 6,412 ft in Manitou Springs.

If you've got access to the gym, train slowly, but steadily. Walking 30 min on the treadmill, 3x per week is plenty of training for the beloved Peruvian peak.

It's so easy it's not even funny! See:

For each session, I'd do a 5 min warmup (flat, normal pace), followed by (at the same pace):

Week 1:
Mon - Angle: 0 deg
Wed - Angle: 1 deg
Fri - Angle: 0 deg

Week 2:
Mon - Angle: 1 deg
Wed - Angle: 2 deg
Fri - Angle: 1 deg

And so on. By 15th week (more than three months) you'll be hiking at a 15 deg incline for half an hour at your normal pace.

After each 30 min session, do a 5 min cooldown at zero inclination.

Stretch lightly before and after, and again on off days. Stretching needn't take more than a few minutes (less than 10) each day.

If you don't have access to a gym, find some hills, beginning easy, then mod, then hard, with the same 5-30-5 x3/week. Either way, you'll be more than ready.

I would recommend you start not later than 4 months in advance to allow for any possible injury... Plenty of sleep, eat right, multivitamin, a...

You'll do fine.

Good luck, y ustedes no bebas el agua! (or use bottled/purified/filtered...)

[steffanie]

Hmm the open cock pitt flight is not an option, plus i am a terrible flyer so i would noT be keen on opening a commercial flights window, i would like to keep the flight a smooth as possible. But thanks for your suggestions!:D

[steffanie]

Por que gracias Mugaliens, que ha sido muy provechoso en fecto!
I appreciate that advise. I did warm up today at a 1.5 inclination for ten minutes.
I won't be going until October or so hopefully i should have no excuse to get fit by then.
It's a great achievment to summit any peak fair play everyone who did!

[flynjack1]

Hi, Steffanie. I've hiked a few peaks in my time, including to 14,115 ft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikes_Peak). For that, we began at 6,412 ft in Manitou Springs.

If you've got access to the gym, train slowly, but steadily. Walking 30 min on the treadmill, 3x per week is plenty of training for the beloved Peruvian peak.




All good advise from Mugs, best to build up your routine slow. Most benefit from cardio comes from the low end anyway. If you are short of breath during your excersize to the point of it being difficult to talk you are working too hard.

Incidently, since you cant do any altitude adjustment before you go, look at your itenerary and see if you can work it so you do the Machu Pichu hike after you have had a couple of days of adjustment in country. Either way you most likely will be fine, but you most assuredly will enjoy it the more adapted you can be. It actually takes about two weeks to fully adapt to big altitude changes, but using the method of climbing and descending resting and then climbing higher the next day is a well tested way of making a rapid adustment.

By the way this is one of the ancient sites that is on my must see list too. Have a great time.

[Swift]

By the way Steffanie, the January/February issue of American Scientist (http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/id.76/past.aspx) (scroll down to the Engineering column) had a very interesting article about the engineering and design of Machu Picchu and some of the related sites around it. Unfortunately, the on-line article is only available to subscribers, but maybe you can find a copy at a local library or university.

[steffanie]

Thank you Flynjack1 Hopefully i will be landing in Cusco and getting transport straight to the Sacred Valley which is 9,000ft maybe stay there a few days and then go on to MP. Lake Titicaca is an option also but at 13,000ft i will have to see how it goes:)

Swift thanks for the link i will be starting an astronomy course tomorrow evening at the tech colllege i will have a snoop around the library for a copy:)

[sabianq]

Hey,
I am so jealous, I would give up a tooth to go with you. I have always wanted to head over to central america see the achient ruins.

as for altitude, I grew up near Evergreen, Colorado, my house sat at 7,800 feet and i had Mt Evans in my back yard where the summit sits at 14,240, I would ride my bike to the summit about 10 times a year in the summer. (there is a paved road all the way to the top) I had always been interested in the observatory at the top and had a chance to visit one time on a clear night.
[edit] the observatory is called the Meyer-Womble Observatory if anyone is interested.
http://mysite.du.edu/~rstencel/MtEvans/
http://www.mountevans.com/

I would make the suggestion that you start to do light to moderate running/jogging everyday. (my cardiologist says i should run everyday because it makes the heart stronger)

also don't forget to drink water, it is really easy to get dehydrated at altitude (above 7000 ft), i don't know about the quality of the water there but a good portable filter is always in my inventory.
drink water,
Watch the alcohol consumption,
it is really easy to get drunk at altitude.
(numerous times when i was young and more stupid than i am now, we would head to the summit and camp out with a bottle of bourbon, the only way to really sober up was to go back down the hill.)
so really watch your alcohol intake.
eat protein in the morning, but keep your food intake light.
breath deep
don't panic

bring a good pair of binoculars.
if you have never been at altitude,
you will be absolutely amazed at how bright and clear the stars are,
even though Mt Evans in Colorado is so close to the lights of Denver, the altitude lets the star light really punch through the thin atmosphere.

Have fun!
Drink (clean) water.
Breathe deep!
and
Have fun!

[steffanie]

Cheers Sabianq you are more than welcome to join me i think i have a few people rounded up already!:lol: Thanks for the advice, i love the attached pics, looks pretty awesome eh?

[beskeptical]

Ooohhh! I went! I went! And I traveled alone except in the Galapagos and I'm female. Pero hablo bastante Espanol.

I went to Ecuador and Peru last August including Machu Picchu. At first I wasn't going to go to MP because all the treks were full and it seemed too touristy. Would have been a big mistake not to have gone. It was incredible and you can't get the feel of the place from the pictures. The fact you are thousands of feet up these sheer peaks doesn't come across in a photo.

So here's the scoop I'd want to know if I were you going for the first time.

Health matters:
I routinely walk a couple miles a day, am moderately overweight, live at sea level and got altitude sickness (terrible headache, right arm pain and nausea) at the top of Pike's Peak (http://www.pikespeakcolorado.com/GeneralInformation.htm) in Colorado, (14,110 feet), but which was immediately relieved a couple hundred feet down the mountain. You drive to the summit, ie it is a very fast ascent.

It is not simple hypoxia that causes altitude sickness. If it were, then you'd expect a straight correlation between fitness and unfitness but that isn't the case. It's genetics and time to acclimatize that matters just as much.

Altitude Sickness (http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/altitude-sickness-topic-overview)Your age, being male or female, and how physically fit you are play no role in whether you get altitude sickness...

...A doctor can give you acetazolamide (Diamox). This speeds up how fast your body gets used to the a higher altitude.


This site has more than you need to know for MP but useful for the section on Diamox. (http://www.ismmed.org/np_altitude_tutorial.htm)Acetazolamide (Diamox®) is a medication that forces the kidneys to excrete bicarbonate, the base form of carbon dioxide; this re-acidifies the blood, balancing the effects of the hyperventilation that occurs at altitude in an attempt to get oxygen. This re-acidification acts as a respiratory stimulant, particularly at night, reducing or eliminating the periodic breathing pattern common at altitude. Its net effect is to accelerate acclimatization. Acetazolamide isn't a magic bullet, cure of AMS is not immediate. It makes a process that might normally take about 24-48 hours speed up to about 12-24 hours.

Acetazolamide is a sulfonamide medication, and persons allergic to sulfa medicines should not take it.

I used the med three times on my trip for a couple days each time. Once going from here to Quito (9,350 feet), and then for going back to Quito from the Galapagos (eat your hearts out :) ), and then for going from the Peruvian coast to the Altiplano (mountain plains). But I'm pretty sure none of these places were really high enough to trigger altitude sickness. I just didn't want to test it on a three week trip. And obviously some people experience the symptoms between 9,000 and 13,000 feet (Quito - Puno - Cusco) or there wouldn't be so much talk about it on all the travel web pages. But I do think the altitude thing is a bit overrated.

Machu Picchu is lower than Cusco, but you probably already knew that. I went to Puno, then took the train to Cusco before going to MP so I had more than a week to acclimatize plus I used the Diamox to speed things up. The only problem I experienced was getting out of breath going up hills. There is a lot of uphill walking in Peru. I don't think I was much more out of breath than going uphill at sea level.

I also chose not to take Malaria pills even though there is still some malaria around Lima and in the lowlands. I didn't want to have to take the med for so long after returning for such a short risk period. The mosquitoes at MP don't carry malaria or yellow fever. But Peru has 3 major climate zones for mosquito borne disease so be sure to check the hazards of your specific destinations.

However, speaking of biting bugs, I wore a long skirt at MP. It was cool, convenient for emergency peeing (didn't need it there) and comfortable. People were using bug repellent. I used a little. I did not feel a single bite or see a single mosquito. But back at the train, turns out my legs were covered in bites. It was a minor annoyance. I don't recall itching more than a brief time. I recommend if you care to wear long pants and socks.

There was talk of crime everywhere I went. I saw none and experienced no place I felt particular fear. I got the impression the crime rate was high but the usual common sense precautions one would need anywhere were sufficient.

Ground travel, OTOH, that was definitely a cause for fear. OM FSM! The driving was unbelievable. Shear cliffs, no guard rails, fast drivers, they literally squeeze past walls and cars with less than an inch to spare. And of course along the road are all the crosses telling you it is not your imagination that your life is at risk. It's one of the hazards you have to endure to enjoy world travel. You DO NOT want to rent your own car, (unless you are a Nascar racer at home or something). Only natives know how to drive in Peru.


If you are young and want to walk any part of the Inca Trail you needed your reservation yesterday. A couple years back the government put a limit on permits including a clause that says once a space is assigned to a trekker (by name and passport #) cancellations can not be filled with a new person. This was to prevent companies from buying up the permits before they had customers to fill the spaces. Now a company must get the permits along with the customer and once they are gone, that's it until next season.

I wasn't so unhappy that I missed the window on permits however. It looked like a hot grueling hike that might have been enjoyable were I still in my 20s. If you miss the window or decide not to go the Inca Trail way, there is an uphill trek from within MP that I understand is well worth the climb as the ruins differ. It's the walk up Huayna Picchu. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huayna_Picchu) I didn't find out about that one until too late also, but I don't think I would have had time to climb it anyway. If you have 2 days at MP, definitely take that hike. Twice in the morning they allow the first couple hundred (can't remember the limit) people through the gate to go up the peak. The first option is very early and the second is 9 or 10am, I can't recall. And I have no idea how many people actually line up at the designated times, but I wouldn't let the numbers worry me. I didn't see hundreds of people crawling on the peak like ants or anything.

I went on the luxury train, the Hiram Bingham. But I did so because it was worth it that it fit in my schedule. It is too expensive for most travelers' taste. As soon as we got inside MP, I ditched the guide and went off on my own. I'm not one to waste time listening to all the stuff I could read about anytime. One day, probably the only day I was ever going to be there in my life, was not going to be wasted being polite to a guide and slowed down with a group. That is a matter of personal taste, to each his own.

Get your train tickets as soon as you decide the dates you are going. You can buy Peru Rail safely online. I read a few horror stories of lost reservations in the travel reviews so I don't know how often errors are made but I found the system to be pretty normal as far as buying train tickets from a distant location. The train from Puno to Cusco was wonderful and cheap. The Hiram Bingham was wonderful and incredibly expensive. The hotel on the MP grounds cost $1,000/nite. There are cheap hotels in the very nearby town of Aguas Calientes. If you are staying for more than one day, staying there is fine.

Staying in Cusco is fine too but it's 4 hours from there to MP. The train is pretty much the only way to get to MP except there is a road from the other side of the mountain if you really get adventurous. That's how I ended up taking the H. Bingham. It was either a long train ride, a tired tour of MP and a long train ride, or I would have had to stay in Aguas Calientes over night. I would have but I couldn't squeeze everything I really wanted to do into the time frame and have 2 days at MP. So that left the H Bingham which was a long luxurious train ride, a well rested tour of MP and a long train ride back to Cusco.


OK, that's the scoop. I'm sure I'll think of more things as the thread progresses. Definitely plan early, buy the important tickets as soon as you decide what you want to do.

[HenrikOlsen]

It is not simple hypoxia that causes altitude sickness. If it were, then you'd expect a straight correlation between fitness and unfitness but that isn't the case. It's genetics and time to acclimatize that matters just as much.
I'm reminded about president Carter visiting some high place and two of his Secret Service guys getting altitude sickness while he didn't.
I doubt he was more fit that them:)

[Ivan Viehoff]

The heights you guys have described is awesome. 14000ft peak!
If you do the Inca trail you climb over Warmiwañusca or "Dead Woman's Pass", which is generally quoted as 4,200m. Which at the usual 3:10 approximation computes as .... 14,000 feet. Comes out slightly less if you do it properly. I'm afraid I'm fully metric with altitudes, so the rest comes in metric. MP is about 2,400m and Cusco is at about 3,300m.

You can't predict your reaction to altitude in advance, fitness has nothing to do with it. A former colleague of mine saw someone die from altitude sickness in Nepal, who had ascended too rapidly to about 4,500m. But that is rare. Personally I don't react to altitude too well. I do acclimatise, but slowly. I got a nosebleed and noticeable difficulty breathing going over a mere 2,700m pass in the Alps. If all I had done was hang around in Cusco at 3300m for 2 or 3 days, I would definitely suffer going over the 4200m pass. But I have ascended to about 5,200m quite happily after a long period of acclimatisation. As one person I know said, 4000m you can get used to but 5000m is no joke. Now you understand why Everest at 8900m such a challenge. It is barely more than a trekking peak, if we are honest, there are only a couple of short technical stretches. K2 is a totally different order of difficulty. It is the altitude and the weather that does for you on Everest. Above a certain altitude, I forget what, 6500m or so, you can no longer survive in the longer term; you are in a condition of slowly dying, and you must descend within a few days or you will die, even if you have food and shelter. People who get stuck in extended bad weather on high peaks die, even if they have enough food to wait it out.

I agree with Clint, though I got terribly slagged off on another forum for saying so a bit too starkly. So I shall be a bit more careful how I put it this time. The Inca trail is an amazing trail and an amazing experience, especially in comparison to what you might see most other places. But there are other treks of a much greater amazingness in Peru and Bolivia. Those people who deny that the IT is overrated usually haven't had the benefit of going on one of the really good ones. So the ideal thing to do, in my view, is go to MP on the train, and do another trail somewhere else. In fact the very best thing to do is stay the night in Aguas Calientes, and then get into MP before almost everyone else does (the people who stay in the posh hotel right at MP get the advantage in this over most tourists). When I was there, the only way to achieve that was to walk there, because the first local bus from AC to MP was not very early. It is about 3 km from AC to the bottom of the zig-zags. But there is a footpath so you don't have to endure the full 8km of zig-zags to walk up, but it is about a 400m climb (in terms of altitude). I was about 9 months into an Andean cycling tour, so I was very fit and acclimatised at the time... Don't miss Ollantaytambo either, in my view the remains there are even more interesting than those at Cusco.

I had no difficulty filling a whole day at MP. Huayna Picchu, the little peak above MP, is amazing. But it is very steep and vertiginous, and you have to go up/down steep sites through some tight little tunnels. So bear this in mind before you do it, and allow a couple of hours. They close the entrance to it mid-pm to make sure you have plenty of time to get up and down.

[steffanie]

Thanks Beskeptical and Ivan Viehoff for your lengthy replies:) I appreciate the advice. I would be the type who shys away from very touristy places so i wouldn't mind heading off the beaten track to the road less travelled if it was going to be worth it. I have two friends who went also and were very ill from altitude sickness and again would be fit people but a you guys say fitness has nothing to do with it.

I will look into it anyhow, the price tag is high, so if there are other places just as breath taking i would consider them:)
Thanks again.

[beskeptical]

I've been a lot of places, MP is one of the best. But I enjoyed Palanque and Tikal almost as much.