Seems like Cleopatra was beautiful after all..

[gzhpcu]

Other discoveries include an alabaster bust of Cleopatra, and 22 coins bearing her "beautiful" image, according to council Secretary-General Zahi Hawass. The discovery contradicts some recent reports that describe her as unattractive, he said.

source:
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/17/cleopatra.tomb/index.html

So, maybe the Liz Taylor portrayal is not so much off after all...:)

[Ivan Viehoff]

There are plenty of other statues and coins showing her as hook-nosed with a protuding chin, a bit plump, etc. And as queen, she could probably control her image, as Elizabeth I of England did. So the statue of her naked and beautiful (curious by our standards that a statue of the queen would show her naked) appears more like an idealised tailor's dummy than a real person.

We can conclude that probably most of the population was rather ugly - subject to periodic famine, required to undertake hard labour, suffering various afflictions, so probably the level of competition was much lower those days. On the one hand her power would have given her access to plentiful food denied much of the population, and avoid hard labour, and those features could well have been seen as attractive in their time. On the other hand she was substantially in-bred, having only 4 great-grandparents, and that rarely does much for people's appearance. Roman authors mainly speak of her charm, and those who offer some sort of compliment on her appearance are rarely without reservation and are usually second hand reports. It seems that Mark Antony was no great beauty himself.

Other queens noted for their prodigious libido - Catherine the Great, Victoria - also appear to have been rather short, plump and plain.

[Gillianren]

Wait, Victoria? "Close your eyes, dear, and think of England"? I mean, yes, she had a ton of kids, but when I think Victoria, I do not think libido. And, by period standards, both Elizabeth I and Mary Stuart were considered libidinous, not because they did anything about it but because it was obvious that they wanted to. (Well, Mary made some foolish marriage choices!) Neither of them could exactly be said to be dumpy.

[Abbadon_2008]

I've always envisoned Cleo as looking a bit like Iman, the supermodel/actress. I never believed she looked anything like Liz Taylor.

[Paul Beardsley]

I've always envisoned Cleo as looking a bit like Iman, the supermodel/actress. I never believed she looked anything like Liz Taylor.

For one ghastly moment I thought you meant John Inman.

Please God, don't send me any dreams tonight!

[Gillianren]

There's no reason Cleopatra would have looked anything like Iman, since Cleopatra was Greek in descent, not African. (I've read that, if you believe what the coins show, she looked rather like Robin Williams, but I'm not sure I've ever seen one of the coins.)

[Paul Beardsley]

There's no reason Cleopatra would have looked anything like Iman, since Cleopatra was Greek in descent, not African. (I've read that, if you believe what the coins show, she looked rather like Robin Williams, but I'm not sure I've ever seen one of the coins.)

I can just imagine Ptolemy (either one) thinking, "I don't know which is worse - the fact that my bride-to-be is my own sister, or the fact that she looks like that bloke out of Mork and Mindy."

[Trantor]

Well, she couldn't have been too bad. Didn't she introduce herself to Caesar by putting her naked body in a rug, and then having her servants unroll it before him. Afterwards, Caesar was apparently smitten.:)

[novaderrik]

Well, she couldn't have been too bad. Didn't she introduce herself to Caesar by putting her naked body in a rug, and then having her servants unroll it before him. Afterwards, Caesar was apparently smitten.:)
when a naked woman shows up at your house, one would tend to overlook a few imperfections..

[kleindoofy]

... according to council Secretary-General Zahi Hawass ...
Errr, it is well known among egyptologists that Mr. Hawass' view is that historical truth is based on personal opinions, wishes and dreams and not on facts.

However no egyptologist will ever say so publicly, knowing that he/she would never be able to set foot in the Cairo Museum or visit any excavation site in Egypt again, probably also causing that same treatment to be extended to all egyptologists from his/her country, for at least a decade.

[Ilya]

Wait, Victoria? "Close your eyes, dear, and think of England"? I mean, yes, she had a ton of kids, but when I think Victoria, I do not think libido.
You should. Her and Albert's bedroom in Balmoral Castle had to be soundproofed because she was such screamer.

"Close your eyes and think of England" was general imperative to British women of the time because "official wisdom" was that women do not enjoy sex. Or at least that's what young women were taught -- what your husband will want to do to you is dirty and awful, but you'll have to bear it for the good of Empire.

[Gillianren]

She must have spent an awfully long time stifling that libido, is all I'm saying. Rather unlike Catherine, who really seems to have gotten going once her husband died.

[gzhpcu]

Here is a famous Roman bust of Cleopatra:

http://www.touregypt.net/magazine/mag04012001/mag6.htm

Certainly not fat and ugly...

[mugaliens]

Very Hellenistic.

Certainly not Helen, though...

[sarongsong]

when a naked woman shows up at your house, one would tend to overlook a few imperfections...Especially when you're 52 and she's 21...and rich! http://www.bautforum.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Gillianren]

Certainly not fat and ugly...

I don't remember anyone saying fat. I, for one, was only commenting on her face. It is, however, almost certain that she weighed a bit more than is currently thought of as having a good body. The Romans--and she did appeal to more than a few Romans!--liked them heavier.

[gzhpcu]

I don't remember anyone saying fat. I, for one, was only commenting on her face. It is, however, almost certain that she weighed a bit more than is currently thought of as having a good body. The Romans--and she did appeal to more than a few Romans!--liked them heavier.

One of Egypt's most senior antiquities officials, Zahi Hawas, has challenged a description of Cleopatra as short, fat and ugly.

source:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1250323.stm

[gzhpcu]

And here:

http://www.era-az.com/index.php?s=1001&x=132&lg=en

Cleopatra was short, fat and ugly

Cleopatra, the queen of ancient Egypt who seduced Julius Caesar and Mark Antony with her supposedly irresistible beauty, has been revealed as short, frumpish and in need of a good dentist in a new exhibition at the British Museum.

[Wizard From Oz]

I think Cleopatra's charm came more from her grace, poise and sensuality.

[novaderrik]

I think Cleopatra's charm came more from her grace, poise and sensuality.
and getting naked and being rolled up in a blanket certainly helped..

[Romanus]

Seeing as to that Plutarch himself described Cleopatra as plain, I'm not inclined to believe this until we find a bust that has her *name* on it and depicts a beautiful woman. To be far to her, though, as aforementioned the ancient sources refer endlessly to her boundless charm, if not charisma. "Age cannot wither her, nor custom stale her infinite variety", indeed.

[Gillianren]

Heck, not even necessarily then. You've heard, I trust, the story of Anne of Cleves? Henry VIII was presented with a portrait of her and was delighted at the prospect of marrying her. When the actual woman was presented to him, he was not as pleased.

[Wizard From Oz]

and getting naked and being rolled up in a blanket certainly helped..

LOL true, but trying to be a gentleman, I kinda lumped that in under sensuality :)

[gzhpcu]

And now Cleopatra has a lawyer to defend her good name....
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/19/egypt.cleopatra.mystery/index.html

Plutarch wrote in his "Life of Antony" that "for her beauty was in itself not altogether incomparable, nor such as to strike those who saw her." In other words, she was plain. Plutarch goes on to write, however, that she was intelligent, charming and has "sweetness in the tones of her voice."
The mystery of what Cleopatra really looked like may never be solved. In any event, it's just one of many mysteries in Egypt.

[mfumbesi]

I'm lovin this thread

[Disinfo Agent]

Other discoveries include an alabaster bust of Cleopatra, and 22 coins bearing her "beautiful" image, according to council Secretary-General Zahi Hawass. The discovery contradicts some recent reports that describe her as unattractive, he said.No, it doesn't!

This report can hardly be taken seriously. First of all, we're comparing statues of Cleopatra, not photos. Secondly, Cleo ruled for many years. She might well have been a beauty when she was young, but become less interesting when she aged. There's no contradiction to begin with.