I'm new: Telescope recommendations?

[Alien Trilogy]

Hello, I'm totally new to star-gazing and want to buy an affordable telescope for my upcoming 5-day trip to Montana. I live in the city, so light polution will make it hard to gaze very often. So it doesn't need to be the best telescope possible, I'll probably use it only on trips. Ebay has so many in my price range (around 200 bucks) but I don't want to accidentally buy a piece of junk. My goal is to see objects in our solar system (like Saturn's rings) and other cool stuff like nebulae if possible. My iphone has a star map program that I intend on using to help me find stuff. I hope somebody here is excited about their own 200 dollar telescope and can give me a suggestion. Thanks guys.

[Swift]

Hi Alien Trilogy, welcome to BAUT.

I moved your post to a more appropriate thread, I think you'll get more of a response here. Good luck on the telescope hunt, have fun in Montana, and clear skies!

[AndrewJ]

Trilogy - the standard advice for new gazers seems to be "start with binoculars, don't buy 'scope from Walmart". I would buy one if I could afford it so don't let me put you off!

You can see Saturn's rings with binoculars and Jupiter's larger moons etc. The Orion nebula is one of the most interesting bino views in the sky. There are supposedly about a dozen Northern Hemisphere galaxies visible in 10x50 binoculars, I can see five.

Montana sounds good for observing. The Continental Divide should block uplight from settlements.

[Kyle Edwards]

I would recommend Orion's lower priced telescopes, all of them I have used have been good. In fact I have even taken some Saturn pictures with a $169 Orion 70mm refractor. But steer clear of the ones with cheap goto mounts.

Hope this helps.

[RickJ]

The solar system can be seen as well from light polluted skies as from Montana skies. I really doubt that star map is going to help you much though I don't have any familiarity with that one most beginners are really lost in a dark sky. Finding the faint fuzzies isn't easy. I remember as a beginner with a rather good star map needing three days to find M11 a rather bright star cluster. Three very frustrating days! Finally I had to ask a elderly (younger than I am now) amateur. He took all of 5 seconds to put it in my scope. Talk about frustration.

If time I'd plan on taking binoculars and a planisphere out into the country and start to learn to recognize the constellations. Even so you will see so many more stars under dark skies miles from anywhere that you will likely be rather lost. The sooner you start the better. It doesn't help to have a good scope if you can't recognize the sky well enough to point the scope.

As Kyle says, those cheap goto scopes are to be avoided. They don't point well without the user really knowing how and what to tighten down and how to hold your tongue for best results. They tend to be a crap shoot from my experience.

For easy travel I use a 6" f/4 reflector, no mount. It runs about 25x. I sit in a lawn chair with it in my lap. Quite easy to hold it very steady, far steadier than I can binoculars and sweep the sky, especially the Milky Way.

Telescopes need aperture to see faint fuzzy things and they also need focal length to see high resolution images of the planets. Neither are all that easy to achieve in a small carry along scope.

A 6" f/8 dob is a basic starting scope but not for travel. It has the light grasp and focal length needed for good all around viewing. You'll need to sacrifice both to fit it in a travel case. A good quality 80mm ED scope is a good compromise but with the needed eyepieces would be far beyond your budget. The 70mm refractor mentioned by Kyle, on a good mount is pretty good for planets but rather dim for deep sky objects. Main problem as a travel scope is its length. Not all that portable unless you have more room in the car than I normally have. Note that if you touch the scope and can see it move the mount isn't up to the task. That little motion when you go to focus it will be 100x bigger at 100x and it will look like there's a level 9 earthquake going on making focusing impossible. Most don't realize how important the mount is. Good optics are easy, a good mount isn't. This is why the Dobsonian mount has become so common. It's the exception, cheap to make and rock solid but only really suitable for Newtonian scopes.

My standard recommendation is to search out a local astronomy club and attend a few star parties. There you can see and use many different types of scopes, each right for its owner, and thus determine what is right for you. We've had beginner scopes in our club for decades. They keep getting passed down to other new members. Some have had 5 to 8 owners over the years. They make an inexpensive beginner scope that usually is sold to the next newcomer at the purchase price. Another reason to search out a good club.

I don't know your time frame. If no time for that get a good pair of about $100 10x50 binoculars for the trip.

Rick

[schlaugh]

Second the binocular recommendation. Useful on land too.

If you'd like a very entry-level telescope and for few dollars, you might try the Galileoscope. (http://www.bautforum.com/astronomical-observing-equipment-accessories/85029-galileoscope-now-open-purchase.html) Yes, it's not high end. Yes, it's only $15. Yes, its target market is kids. But for something very portable it's apparently quite functional.

ETA: Whoops...won't be available before June.

Another choice could be the Celestron portable Dobsonian (http://www.celestron.com/c3/product.php?CatID=92&ProdID=568).

But you really can't go wrong with binos. And if you can afford it, go with more aperture like a 20 x 80.
(http://www.binoculars.com/topastronomybinoculars.cfm)

[Alien Trilogy]

OK, thanks alot guys, excellent. I looked at orian's website and they have a 80mm "2nd" on sale. I also I found 2 good used possiblilties on craigslist for way under $200. One is a 8" reflector with tripod, but he doesn't say which brand, just calls it "Professional Telescope".. So I'll go check it out. The other is a Galileo 800mm-80mm Newtonian reflector telescope. I don't know which of these 2 are better. I like the binaculars idea, Orian has those too. Anyways, I'll post what I decide if I get it.

[Alien Trilogy]

schlaugh, those Zhumell 20x80 SuperGiant Astronomical Binoculars are more than 50% off! Am I supposed to get a tripod, too? Those look so cool, I may skip the telescopes and buy that now.

[schlaugh]

schlaugh, those Zhumell 20x80 SuperGiant Astronomical Binoculars are more than 50% off! Am I supposed to get a tripod, too? Those look so cool, I may skip the telescopes and buy that now.

A tripod would help, since the binocs are likely heavy. Even a monopod (http://www.opticsplanet.net/monopods.html) would be good.

[redshifter]

I highly recommed a tripod at least for any binocs over 50mm. 80mm will be VERY difficult to hand hold steadily for any length of time.

If you're gonna go with an 8" reflector, I recommend a dob. A dobsonian mounted reflector is an excellent beginner scope. Portablity may be an issue for you, how are you getting to Montana?

Here is something any beginner should read: http://scopereviews.com/begin.html

[RickJ]

It isn't a question of which of those two scopes is better, from my experience both are likely junk. I have seen lots of Galileo scopes brought in to Hyde (a public observatory where I was a supervisor for over 27 years) all were very poor quality. A "professional" newtonian on a tripod is an oximoron in my book. This is a sure sign of crap as is no brand name and likely several other things in the ad. Real "professional" gear is FAR beyond your price range! Also no professional would put a newtonian on a tripod, they are way too shaky for this type design unless VERY expensive.

Avoid telescopes that tout their magnification. Another sign of junk. Especially if the magnification touted is more than 2x the diameter of the scope in mm or 50x in inches. So a 80mm scope tops out at about 160x. You'll find even smaller scopes advertised at 400 or even higher powers. All designed for suckers. Also a tripod is worthless with a newtonian as you will constantly be running into its legs and they are usually very shaky. Piers are used for newtonians that aren't Dobs. As redshifter says the Dob mount for a newtonian is the way to go for an inexpensive scope. Anything else in your price range will likely be way to shaky for decent use.

See links at:
http://www.skyandtelescope.com/equipment/basics

You'll find similar threads on your topic in this forum. Lots of good links and advice.

I'd avoid Amazon, Craig's list etc. as scope sources. These places tend to sell mostly junk. Often by people who bought a junk scope and are now trying to get rid of it. You need experience to separate the very few good deals that might be found there, I've never found any. There are places like Astro-mart where knowledgeable amateurs sell their gear. They don't use Craig's list etc. nor do reputable dealers as they have their own websites.

Rick

[Siguy]

At all costs, never, ever buy off-brand eBay scopes, (for example this (http://cgi.ebay.com/WHITE-6-NEWTONIAN-REFLECTOR-TELESCOPE-TRIPOD-NEW-FREE_W0QQitemZ320363647712QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTeles copes?hash=item320363647712&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 17|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50) is garbage) they are complete junk. Being hasty to buy a telescope will often land you with a several hundred dollar useless toy. It's best to buy a telescope from a place that knows what they're talking about, and isn't going to rip you off or sell you crap.

Lots of cheap-o telescopes are meant to look like good quality scopes that amateur astronomers actually would use, but really are just meant to impress with their size and really have terrible optics and useless mechanics.

Stay away from Galileo telescopes. They are usually junky, "department store" style scopes and are also exceptionally overpriced.

Less than $200 for an 8'' telescope could be a fantastic deal, but don't go for it until you've seen it firsthand and told us about it. It could be junk. If the seller only describes it as a "professional telescope" they clearly don't know much about it and that could either mean that they are selling a high quality telescope for a great deal, or selling a junk telescope for too much.

RickJ: The seller could know very little about telescopes. They could be describing an equatorial mount as a "tripod" and say that it's a professional telescope because to them it might look that way. Though they could just as easily be measuring the wrong part of the telescope, I wouldn't be so quick to say it's junk or a scam.

[RickJ]

Siguy,
You may be right. For the sake of whoever does buy it I sure hope so! But I really doubt it. At best the seller is likely someone who bought junk so described and is now selling it, not even realizing it isn't as they are advertising it just thinking they didn't know enough to make it work. I didn't mean to imply the seller was a crook, just that a scope so advertised is rarely, if ever, a good buy. In any case we agree there are far better brands than Galileo for the money. The other scopes that have been suggested here would be far superior based on the Galileo scopes I've seen at Hyde.

After 27 years at Hyde I've seen so many people buy scopes advertised as "professional", "high quality", "superior quality" etc. that were all junk I am a bit jaded. Watching kids cry when told the scope they bought for $150 that has so poor it can't be salvaged and the folks who thought they were buying something good obviously spent their last spare penny on it does this to me. There's a chance of course it isn't shaky, it isn't a tripod, the optics work and the price is fair; there's also a chance I'll win a $200 million power ball lottery. My years at Hyde tell me those two are about equal.

One club member did find a $1000 (1960 dollars) scope at a garage sale for $100 but in that case the seller thought it poor because they didn't know how to use it. He told them where and how to sell it for $1000 but they wanted done with it and he ended up with a super bargain. But then he knew telescopes. Buying on Craig's list is crap shoot. There are far better places to find bargains. Starting with a good club as I mentioned. Ours usually has several of good quality in his price range that are great bargains. We also have loaner scopes from 4" to 13" for club members while they save for a good scope.

In any case you need to know something about scopes before running out and buying based on advertised claims.

Rick

[nokton]

Hello, I'm totally new to star-gazing and want to buy an affordable telescope for my upcoming 5-day trip to Montana. I live in the city, so light polution will make it hard to gaze very often. So it doesn't need to be the best telescope possible, I'll probably use it only on trips. Ebay has so many in my price range (around 200 bucks) but I don't want to accidentally buy a piece of junk. My goal is to see objects in our solar system (like Saturn's rings) and other cool stuff like nebulae if possible. My iphone has a star map program that I intend on using to help me find stuff. I hope somebody here is excited about their own 200 dollar telescope and can give me a suggestion. Thanks guys.
Hi there, my two pennies, check out Televue basic scope with one of their occulars to
give you about 100 mag, you will see Saturns rings, never known anyone satisfied with
a $200 dollar scope.
Nokton

[Siguy]

Hi there, my two pennies, check out Televue basic scope with one of their occulars to
give you about 100 mag, you will see Saturns rings, never known anyone satisfied with
a $200 dollar scope.
Nokton

Televue's cheapest scope is the $825 (ota only) TV-60. Their eyepieces can cost hundreds of dollars. You don't need a Televue just to see the Rings of Saturn! Sure, they're a great brand, but I don't think this person is going to jump into the high end stuff as a beginner.

Today there are plenty of fine scopes well under $300.

[kookbreaker]

Stay away from Galileo telescopes. They are usually junky, "department store" style scopes and are also exceptionally overpriced.


uh, the Galileoscope schlaugh referred to was the $15 refractor scope made specially for the IYA. Not the Galieo brand line sold on The Shopping Channel.

[RickJ]

Alien Trilogy was looking at an 80mm Galileo brand reflector not the IYA scope, hence Siguy's comment. Two scopes with the same name can get confusing! For $15 the IYA scope is a good deal for kids and anyone wanting to learn about telescopes before buying one. But way below his budget.

Rick

[schlaugh]

Alien Trilogy was looking at an 80mm Galileo brand reflector not the IYA scope, hence Siguy's comment. Two scopes with the same name can get confusing! For $15 the IYA scope is a good deal for kids and anyone wanting to learn about telescopes before buying one. But way below his budget.

Rick
Yep, now s/he's looking at Binos and that's a darned good start. If I had some spare change I might buy those Zhumells as well. Seems like a good price (or maybe it's only a fair price since I don't know the quality.)