Considering my next car (a discourse of sorts)

[LotusExcelle]

I've recently started a new job - one which frees up some funds for a few goals I've had for a while. Some of these things are small in size... the 5D mkII for example. (And packing up my Leicas will indeed be a sad day. Its funny... 35+ years old and they are still kicking. How many digitals will survive that long?)

But as of late I've been getting sick of my car. I've always preferred odd foreign cars. My history off tweaking the crap out of Saabs in fact suggests that *I* am odd. But I somehow thought this Subaru I drive now would be a good choice for me. All-wheel drive, predicted reliability, etc.

My wife also drives a Subaru. In fact they are both Foresters. And for disclosure our phones match our cars. That was an accident. But I think says something. About something.

Both cars blew headgaskets within one week of each other. Its a common issue with that motor. Oh and the rear wheel bearings. Boy that's a great design. It will go down in history as one of the worst ideas ever. Let's have an unsealed bearing back there. Great, guys.

Well it is time to upgrade. And for some time now I've wanted something rear wheel drive. Something more toward the luxury side of the spectrum. Thus far the best-riding car I've ever had is a 1986 Saab 900. Those guys knew what to do with a suspension. Magical, for a front-drive vehicle. And *odd*.

These Foresters ride no better than a bottom of the barrel J-platform car (Cavalier, Sunfire, etc). Its bothersome. And in all honesty my car that could hit 146mph AND get 32mpg should be the benchmark. This 23mpg and sloooooowwwwnesssss.. has to go.

I'm done with Japanese cars. Done. They don't suit me.

So what are my options? Rear drive, at least somewhat luxurious.

And so I'm left with one car on my list after checking others off for various reasons.

Lincoln LS. Me? A Lincoln? Are you kidding? Nope. I'm buying an American, RWD luxury sedan.

[danscope]

Hi, I am currently driving a 1999 Subaru Outbact Legacy with a 2.5l and a 5 speed manual trans. Once you have a professional, a good one , seal the engine, you will love this car. It's like having a porsche with cargo space, heat and ac and good mileage plus 5 seats. The radio has a cassette and a cd player as well. 4W drive all the time, great in tough weather. My wife loves it.
TIP: avoid down shifting. Things last longer that way. Keep the filters clean.
Change the oil. Drive it nice. I'll keep mine for a very long long time.
Oh....by the way, get something called an Irridium Spark Plug. Better electrode exposure. I made the mistake of putting in a bosch platinum plug....
(not good.... loaded up in a month, and plugs are tough to change).
So, that was the cure. I bought mine used with 56,000 miles on it for $9K.
Over 120K now. It serves us well. 5 star rating.
Best regards, Dan

[LotusExcelle]

I am a professional and do all the work myself. The EJ25 motor is known to have head gasket problems - in fact there is a class action law suit out in regards to that issue. The engine itself, while I like the flat layout, is a gutless wonder. At for the amount of fuel it uses (yes I understand that AWD eats some fuel up) you'd think it would get out of its own way a little better.

I DO like how it handles the snow. Its nice to never get stuck (in fact I've seen 4wd trucks get stuck in stuff my Forester plows right through). But it doesn't impress me in any other way.

[sarongsong]

...so I'm left with one car on my list...Lincoln LS...Production of the LS ended on April 3, 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_LS)

If you were new car shopping, was going to suggest looking into the recently announced government-sponsored [up to] $4500 Car Allowance Rebate System (http://www.cars.gov/faq.html#question-01). :)

[LotusExcelle]

Nono not new. Can't afford that and besides I'm really unimpressed with most of the cars out right now (one of the few on the planet that has driven and does NOT like the new CTS... ergonomic nightmare, that thing).

Of course I am open to suggestion. I want something RWD and in the semi-lux to luxury type of market. I'd prefer to stay away from the offerings from Japan for the simple reason that they tend to not have any personality. i.e. while I like Lexus vehicles for a number of reasons they don't fit what I'm looking for.

I'm also looking for something in the 2002-07 range and for under 15k. Sedan or coupe is fine and I would vastly prefer a stick shift but an auto wouldn't be bad if it handled well enough to make up for the slushbox.

[Ronald Brak]

As oil was at $147 a barrel not that long ago and prices have been heading up again, I'd suggest getting a car with excellent fuel efficiency.

[LotusExcelle]

Anything above 25mpg highway would be fine for me. I'd prefer my long-gone Saab's 32mpg and psychotically fast little engine. But - I'm looking for a step up and for RWD. The LS even in V8 form returns pretty decent real-world MPG numbers. Better even than my dinky Stupidru. The V6 version is even better, of course.

People report about 27 highway out of the V8 (note that is different than the government's ratings... but I too have noticed much higher highway mileage out of most cars. Except the Stupidru).

My Subaru gets about 23mpg tops. I can't get it above that no matter how I drive. Its the older MAP style engine so its not metering quite as well as my wife's Subaru. She gets about 25 on the highway. Either way for how plasticky, slow, rough-riding the things are that is unacceptable to me. If I'm going to be under 30MPG my car is going to be large, comfortable, and have enough torque to push me back in my seat a little.

[darkhunter]

My latest car "purchase" is a 1970 MGB Roadster.

It hasn't run in about 4+ years.

It needs bodywork.

I traded a running 1991 Mitsubisi Montero for it.

To each their own....

[orionjim]

To me it sounds like you’ve done your homework!

One thing I can add is to compare prices at different locations. I live about 50 miles north of Detroit and in this area you can pick up a two or three year old car at a pretty good price. Around here people tend to change cars frequently. You might be able to save enough to make it worthwhile for a 7 hour drive.

Jim

[novaderrik]

i might have missed it, but are you looking for a 2 door or a 4 door, or doesn't it matter?
if 2 seats are fine, then how about a C5 Corvette? 400 horses trapped under the hood but still able to knock down 30+mpg if you drive nice.
if you need bigger, how about an 04-06 GTO? 2 door rwd with power that also gets decent fuel economy if you drive accordingly.
'03 Mercury Marauder- comfort and luxury with decent power, but i honestly don't know what kind of mpg they get- or get an ex cop car Crown Victoria that is built on the same chassis as the Marauder, but with less luxury and power but definitely better fuel economy than the Marauder.
there are also other 2 seat choices like the Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky that get really good mileage with a lot of power if you get the turbocharged version.

[LotusExcelle]

Novaderrik - some *excellent* suggestions in there. And they are all really fine cars. As far as sedan or coupe... I really don't care but I prefer the cargo/ease of fitting stuff into a sedan. So that knocks the smaller sports coupes right out. Plus I'm still trying to come in under 15k and I don't know of any C5's that are going for that yet.

I had considered the first-gen new GTO but dismissed it quickly, though it is a really neat machine. It isn't anywhere near the semi-lux (or entry-level luxury) that I'm aiming for with the LS.

The Crown Vic lineage (Panther platform which covers the Grand Marquis, Marauder, etc) is roughly 30 years old and is more anachronistic in this case - the live rear axle and, shall we call it sponge-like handling aren't on par with... well anything.

Basically I don't want a 5-series but I want a 5-series fighter. And when the LS came out it was just that. Something the Panther platform cars can't really claim.

If GM had sorted out their interiors sooner I might have one of their cars on my short list - but even the first-gen CTS was swathed with acres of crummy plastic.

[novaderrik]

i've heard of C5 Vettes going for $10k or less- a guy at work almost bought a 99 with 30k miles on it for $8500 last summer from a friend of his, since a dealer was only going to give the guy $8k for a trade in on a new truck- and you can jam a good amount of cargo in the back.
as for the "spongy" feeling of the big sedans with the live axle rear ends- that's easily fixed with stiffer springs and better shocks, and maybe better wheels and tires. figure a couple grand for the upgrades.
personally, the newest car i'd consider would be a 94 Caprice or Impala SS- while i respect the capabilities of the newer stuff, it just doesn't do it for me.
and i'm poor..

[LotusExcelle]

I'd much prefer an IRS (and for those not into the lingo - that's 'independent rear suspension'). You can push a live axle only so far, as evidence by the new Mustang... but the Panther platform and the GM 'B' platform (Caprice, etc) just don't have it. In fact its almost criminal that Ford didn't invest in the IRS for the Mustang. Heck their SUVs had IRS even!

Yes you can certainly update springs and shocks and so on but its still a 30 year old platform on an outdated driveline.

The C5, while a nice vehicle, simply can't hold the amount of cargo I'll need it to.

[captain swoop]

I used to have a Subaru Impreza Turbo. Crazy supercar performance in a 4wd Saloon car. King of Rallying.
Comfortable to drive as an everyday car as well and reliable.

I currently have a Nissan Primera built just up the road in Sunderland.
Japanes cars all the way for me, reliable, all the extras as standard and well built.

[Cougar]

I'm really unimpressed with most of the cars out right now (one of the few on the planet that has driven and does NOT like the new CTS... ergonomic nightmare, that thing).

Huh? I was going to say the Cadillac CTS is the car you're looking for. Rear-wheel drive, 3.6 L, speedometer goes up to 160 mph. 27 mpg. I love mine!

[LotusExcelle]

Cougar - I would have agreed with you up to the point I drove one myself. The new CTS is, in my opinion, an ergonomic disaster. Window controls next to my left knee? And that center stack is, to say the least, a headache. Plus I could never get the steering wheel positioned in such a way that it *didn't* block one thing or the other.

I was disappointed to say the least. I know the chassis and driving dynamics are way beyond anything GM has done before. But they need to take a que from the Swedes and make the interior less whiz-bang and more functional. Oh and those climate controls? Someone was on crack when they designed that.

[LotusExcelle]

I used to have a Subaru Impreza Turbo. Crazy supercar performance in a 4wd Saloon car. King of Rallying.
Comfortable to drive as an everyday car as well and reliable.

I currently have a Nissan Primera built just up the road in Sunderland.
Japanes cars all the way for me, reliable, all the extras as standard and well built.

I have 'dibs' on a WRX Wagon (highly modified) if I want it. But its not what I'm looking for. Rougher ride than the Forester plus the interior is even more plasticky. Not really what I'm after.

I'm not sure what the Nissan Primera is but the Nissans here, at least the ones in the price/age/fanciness range I'm looking for... don't exist. Here I'd have to go to the Infiniti line (do you have Infiniti branded cars there? Just higher-end Nissans. Like Lexus is just a branded Toyota. Acura is really Honda, etc)

At that the only one I think would fit the bill is a G35 or something like that. And though I like the VQ motor I don't like any of the cars it goes in. Well... okay the Z is nice. I've found that here, at least, Infiniti and Lexus make appliances just like their parent companies. Competent, good cars. But appliances.

[gzhpcu]

[quote=LotusExcelle;1517734

Well it is time to upgrade. And for some time now I've wanted something rear wheel drive. Something more toward the luxury side of the spectrum. Thus far the best-riding car I've ever had is a 1986 Saab 900. Those guys knew what to do with a suspension. Magical, for a front-drive vehicle. And *odd*.

[/quote]
How about Audis or BMWs?

[sarongsong]

A Mercedes 300E sounds like a good fit for some of the criteria mentioned, too. (Generous trunk, for one.)

[LotusExcelle]

How about Audis or BMWs?

Keep in mind I've worked on all of these vehicles ad nauseum.

BMWs are some of the best-engineered and built vehicles I've ever come across. That being said when something does go wrong the parts are either hard to find or really expensive or both. And so while the 5-series is what I'm targeting as the benchmark it *isn't* the car I'm after. To get into a 5-series for 15k or under I'd have to go back into the late 90's and find one with high mileage.

Audis are one of the most nightmarish vehicles to work on I've ever come across. Plus they aren't RWD. Which... I'd compromise if they weren't such a mechanical disaster.

[absael]

If you'd consider AWD instead of RWD, look at an Audi A4. It's an entry-level luxury car that's relatively inexpensive used. The Quattro AWD system works extremely well and is reliable, the quality of the interior materials is outstanding, it's fun to drive, and there is an extensive and mature aftermarket, especially for the turbocharged version.

Now for the bad news. Overall reliability could be better, and it's not cheap to fix. Mine had a bad door switch from the factory that caused the alarm to go off in the middle of the night. The steering rack had to be replaced, and one of the license plate lights kept blowing the fuse even after several trips to the service department.

A BMW might be more reliable, but I think the Audi is a much better bargain up front, and the Bimmer will probably be even more expensive to fix if something does break.

[LotusExcelle]

I agree that the Quattro system is nice, refined, and reliable. Its, as you pointed out, everything else that isn't. Have you ever had to replace an O2 sensor? Or do ball joints? Really not very fun - in fact *anti-fun*.

The S4 is an attractive option, I must say. Plus it connects me in a way to my GTIs (both mk I, both black on red, both a riot to drive).

[captain swoop]

Why not go for a Lotus? not the most reliable bu helolova handlng and performance.

[eric_marsh]

My current collection ranges from a Smart car to a Dodge dually with the Cummins diesel. I guess that my point is that since it's difficult to select one vehicle that does everything well in some cases it might be worth looking at more than one vehicle, each of which does something very well.

As an example, I just picked up my newest car a week ago. It's a bit of a do it yourself project. It is intended to do one thing very well, but consequently it probably isn't a very good grocery getter.

http://gallery.me.com/emarsh/100312/DSC05571/web.jpg?ver=12461689250001

[LotusExcelle]

Are you kidding? That would get groceries faster than anything else I could think of. In fact I would volunteer to go out and get groceries every 3 hours.

The Lotus is a funny suggestion because none of the ones I can afford are large enough to... well... do anything with other than hot laps around the Inner Loop.

Multiple vehicles I'd like to avoid... just more things to fix and it may be hard to believe but for all my skills I *hate* working on my own cars. Really. It drives me nuts.

[eric_marsh]

Are you kidding? That would get groceries faster than anything else I could think of. In fact I would volunteer to go out and get groceries every 3 hours.

Yea, but there's no place to put the groceries :)

[LotusExcelle]

Trivial.

[redshifter]

Anything above 25mpg highway would be fine for me. I'd prefer my long-gone Saab's 32mpg and psychotically fast little engine. But - I'm looking for a step up and for RWD. The LS even in V8 form returns pretty decent real-world MPG numbers. Better even than my dinky Stupidru. The V6 version is even better, of course.

People report about 27 highway out of the V8 (note that is different than the government's ratings... but I too have noticed much higher highway mileage out of most cars. Except the Stupidru).

My Subaru gets about 23mpg tops. I can't get it above that no matter how I drive. Its the older MAP style engine so its not metering quite as well as my wife's Subaru. She gets about 25 on the highway. Either way for how plasticky, slow, rough-riding the things are that is unacceptable to me. If I'm going to be under 30MPG my car is going to be large, comfortable, and have enough torque to push me back in my seat a little.

Weird, I have an 05 Legacy with the 250 hp turbo engine, and I routinely get high 20's on the hwy, and have seen 30mpg on occasion. And it pushes me back in my seat when necessary. It's been a great car; 92k trouble free miles.

[eric_marsh]

Trivial.

I guess, but it seems to me that if one is going to go to the grocery store it really is appropriate to be driving a proper grocery getter.

http://homepage.mac.com/emarsh/.Pictures/thump1.jpg

[captain swoop]

I had a BMW 5 series as a company car a few years ago. Nice quality and good to drive but I never liked it much. As for the Lotus, a company I worked for in London back in the 90s had an Esprit V8 as one of the vompany cars, a Director used it. I got to drive it a couple of times when there were no 'pool' cars available. Out of this world, you could have driven onto the Grid at Le mans and competed.

[Donnie B.]

I brought home a "new" car today -- woohoo!

The background: my previous vehicle was a 2004 Lexus RX330 that I bought brand new. It's been a fine car, very well suited to my needs. But with 105,000 miles, it was a bit long in the tooth.

While at my dealership for service last week, I casually inquired whether they had any leftover '09 RX350s -- the new '10 version is okay but it's in its first year. I thought I might get a nice deal on a leftover.

Well, no... but they did have a 2007 RX350 with only 22K miles on the clock. It carries the "certified pre-owned" tag, which means a three-year warranty (or up to 100k total miles, which will probably occur in about three years anyway) on the major components.

So I swapped my old RX330 plus a chunk of change, and got a much younger vehicle with a bigger engine and a very good warranty, but the same fuel economy and essentially the same features and ergonomics that I have been enjoying.

My first observation: those extra twenty horses make a very significant difference in pep. Sweeet!

Oh, one other thing: we had a major hailstorm here a month back and my old RX got a few dings -- not too obvious, but you could see them if the light hit it right. Plus, of course, five years' worth of road rash and clear-coat scratches. The new one is pristine.

I'm pleased.

[roverich]

Ypu could always get a land rover ...That is if you like working on things ...I do most of my own manitance and it is pretty simple stuff to do ... You just have to know when to do the maintance ...

[man on the moon]

Are you kidding? That would get groceries faster than anything else I could think of. In fact I would volunteer to go out and get groceries every 3 hours.

The Lotus is a funny suggestion because none of the ones I can afford are large enough to... well... do anything with other than hot laps around the Inner Loop.

Multiple vehicles I'd like to avoid... just more things to fix and it may be hard to believe but for all my skills I *hate* working on my own cars. Really. It drives me nuts.

Yea, but there's no place to put the groceries :)

This is probably why he would have to go every three hours.

----

Irony struck tonight. I read the thread title and thought "I'd recommend a soob..." then I read your OP. I love coincedences :).

I have a '91 Loyale. With some issues (leaking head gasket among others) I've been averagine 27-30 mpg freeway; a little less in 4wd. It's not luxury though. A turbocharged Caprice Classic could be a lot of fun...or a souped up/retired police cruiser of another sort (Crown Vic comes to mind) and should be fairly cheap.