In the interest of full disclosure, I'll start by saying that the folks at SLOOH have asked me to participate with them by doing a radio show, but I haven't yet made up my mind. Also, I have some other projects with which I'm involved, and I cannot sign on with anything new until I find out what's going on with these other projects. I think that I'm still an unbiased observer in this discussion, however. That will become more apparent below.

This thread does present an interesting problem. Displaying enthusiasm for a product you really support is not a bad thing. Of course, it can be easy to come across as a zealot; a problem I find myself in sometimes when I am defending science. It can be a fine line.

I think part of the problem here stems from the initial response of BABBers to SLOOH. There was a decided lack of enthusiasm, and this was compounded by an early exchange that threatened to turn into a flame fest. Things then got somewhat worse when questions weren't answered fully. I think that some of those questions have now been answered, but it can be hard to drop a feeling of suspicion after it's been around a while.

I think there has been fault enough to go around on both sides.

Some posters here have implied that SLOOH is not useful. Some have said it's no use to them, and would rather people went out and actually got under the skies themselves. Of course we all want people to do that, but it's not always possible. Weather, expense, and light pollution can all impair someone's ability to observe.

And how many times have we heard stories of people spending hundreds of dollars on equipment as a gift, only to have it collect dust? A lot of the people on BABB are astronomy enthusiasts, and use telescopes often. it might be easy to forget how hard it is to start up, especially when you don't have the drive some of us did. We've always loved astronomy, but that's not true for everyone. For those folks, SLOOH or something like it might not be such a bad solution.

Going to APOD is not really the same thing, as those images are static and taken by someone else. There is something to be said for actually watching the process happen in front of you.

Having said that, I will also say that there is still a detachment, IMO, from what's being done while participating in SLOOH. You aren't really directing the telescope, the targets aren't chosen by you (necessarily), and I am uncertain about how thrilling it is to watch the image come in. Some people will enjoy it, others won't. YMMV.

Another problem, as I see it, is that the SLOOH method is fairly opaque to a user. You log in, you get a flashy window, and then an image appears in your portal. But there is a lack of, well, pedigree to it. There is no support information about the telescopes, no pictures of the telescopes, no sense that anything is actually happening. Participation is still somewhat removed, and I am not sure how much ownership a person will really feel from this. Certainly, for some people (like James), that sense is palpable, but I don't think it's for everyone. Having the chat rooms and "radio" helps as well, but I am still just a little uncertain about how much a particular person can participate. If SLOOH could increase that sense of ownership, I think that would go a long way to making this product a lot more exciting.

Time will tell how well this goes. I have not formed an opinion either way, so far, because I don't have enough information. I actually think the idea of SLOOH is a pretty good one, and I'm curious to see how this does over the following months.

__________________
Phil Plait
The Bad Astronomer
http://www.badastronomy.com
badastro@badastronomy.com

Well, I think it's a good idea, too--it's just not an idea that happens to interest me enough to pony up actual bucks for it.

The world is full of good ideas that somebody is marketing that don't happen to appeal to me enough to convince me to open my wallet.




The difference is that after the discussion was basically over on February 1, you bumped the thread two days later solely to say, "Hey, come visit our place!" which is what "Has anyone checked out the site recently?" amounts to.

Enthusiasm for slooh is one thing.

Bumping a thread only to get in yet another plug for slooh is another thing.

John wasn't saying, "Don't talk any more". He was saying, "Don't keep talking about how we should all come visit your place." And he was asking questions about slooh in a "well, as long as you've come back to the thread, as long as I've got you here, as long as you're apparently still around, I guess I'll ask a few questions" frame of reference.

Because I think we all assumed the discussion was basically over. And then...there you were again.

The Astronomical League sponsors the ISSAT

Which may some day be a noncommercial telescope network available to everyone.

Displaying enthusiasm for a product is fine. I think the reason many of us are a little irritated is that we are seeing a step over the line into using this board to advertise, in breach of rule #11 on the FAQ.

Come and check out the Bradford Robotic Telescope! (See what I mean)?

__________________
"We need rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

Kewl!

=D>

Are they friends of yours, Y? I see the latest news update is from December 5. How's the project coming?

How does one get a beta testing password code?

The Bradford project is not associated with SLOOH in any way. They do have a set of scopes located not far from the SLOOH facilities. I have been looking around a little and they are doing limited observing. Other than that I don't know what is going on with them.


Keep Looking Up.

jamesd_wallace2

Seems all of the telescopes on Mt Teide have had trouble the last few weeks. Very bad winter storms have closed all of the observatories until recently. SLOOH was the first to recover and I have heard that Bradford may have sustained damage. As winter clears SLOOH is gearing up for several attempts at Messier Marathons. I haven't found how to get a beta test password for Bradford but of course SLOOH has 7-day trials.


Keep Looking Up.

jamesd_wallace2

Just had an update from the Bradford people. They are waiting till better weather arrives to test out the system after the bad weather, but they're not aware of any major problems.

A couple of the web cams have been knocked out of alignment by the high winds, but they are not critical to the operation of the main telescope. From the internal dome-cam, the telescope itself and the interior of the dome looks secure and undamaged.

Very snowy though still!

__________________
"We need rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

Glad to hear there was no major damage. Some of the major observatories have lost external equipment and sustained lightning damage. According to Observatorio del Teide staff the mountian has sustained the worst storms in 20 years. It sounds like the little guys have won out in the end. SLOOH has opened several times for short periods and I hope Bradsford is able to soon as well. Hope for calm winds and clear nights.


Keep Looking Up.

jamesd_wallace2

For those who have been worried about the credibility of slooh.com I hope this eases some fears: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050308/nytu048_1.html

If there are still concerns please let me know and I will see what I can do to have them addressed.


Keep Looking Up.

jamesd_wallace2

I was just interviewed by a reporter for the San Jose Mercury News newspaper about SLOOH. She said the article will be out Monday in their Tech Monday section.

__________________
Phil Plait
The Bad Astronomer
http://www.badastronomy.com
badastro@badastronomy.com

Page one, above the masthead, a starry graphic, The PC Telescope, directed readers to page 1E, the Tech Monday section.

Headline: Stars: Up Close & Personal, Internet Sites Bring Observatories to Astronomy Fans' Computers.

They cited http://www.slooh.com, http://www.handsonuniverse.org and http://www.telescopesineducation.com.

Dr. Phil:

Article: See stars from your computer

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She didn't put in anything I said about the robotic telescope we're working on for education at Sonoma State. Sigh.

Hi all!

First of all, sorry if I'm resurrecting a thread you all wanted to see buried. I realize the slooh threads have been somewhat heated.

Anyway, a bit about myself: I live in Sweden and have been reading the Bad Astronomy pages for quite some time, but never visited the forum. I have been interested in astronomy since I was a kid (am now 31) and bought a Meade ETX90 a few years back which has seen as much use as is possible in Sweden (very light summers and cold winters).

So, therefor I was intrigued when I heard about Slooh. I've been researching it and this is the only place I found a real discussion about it. At the moment, I'm skeptical and will likely continue to use the Bradford scope. Here's why:

1. Slooh seem to offer few ways to directly control the result. I'm not taking the pictures, some whiz-bang preconfigured program does.

2. I can't use the images. In any way. Whatsoever. The Bradford observatory reserves copyright, but is allowing publication of the images. Here's the difference between commercial/noncommercial operation.

So, what happens if the scenario reported in the recent wired article happens (Novae discovery using Slooh)? I use my ETX and see something weird, run in and use a Slooh solo mission to check?
Hm. I can't use the Slooh image to prove my claim?

Personally, I think this is a BIG problem. What's the point in paying for a service if the results aren't MINE to use as I chose? Weird.

I'd be interested in hearing your opinions on this. I have another Q as well, but will post that in a separate thread.

Cheers,
Daniel

Foxis,

I'm glad you have at least checked out SLOOH. It is a wonderful tool. Before I get into a response to your question I will make a disclaimer statement:
"I do not work for SLOOH and any opinion that I give about SLOOH is just that, my opinion. I am not just a subscriber of SLOOH, I do volunteer my time in both the Chat room and on Slooh*Radio. My comments are in no way the opinion of SLOOH or Telescope Time Inc."

You can read more about SLOOH on the Users Group at groups.yahoo.com/group/slooh/. The message archive is open to the public.

I am glad to hear that you are getting use out of the Bradford scope but here are some comments about SLOOH's operations.

1. Group missions you do not control the object being imaged. With Solo missions you can control the pointing of the scopes. There is currently only limited ways to affect the image processing. There are four possible settings for solo (coordinate) missions: Galaxy, Star Cluster, Nebula, and Planetary Nebula. With the developement of the Advanced Observing (AO) you will be able to control filter settings and exposure lengths as well. (AO is in the development stage and has no release date yet.)

2. You can use the images. University of Maryland has images from Sloohers concerning the Deep Impact missions, and another Slooher has confirmed several supernovae using SLOOH. The links to SLOOH images are posted on non-commercial websites. The usage is based on approval from Telescope Time Inc. and they have been very liberal with the permissions so far.

In your scenario you would have the freedom to report a discovery using a SLOOH image but permission would be needed to gain commercial publication rights. The images remain on the SLOOH servers but the links to the image can be published for confirmation/discovery purposes.

I have some comments about the "point" of a the SLOOH service but I will post them later. (don't want to make extreemly long postings.)

Please feel free to ask further questions and I will attempt to respond if permitted. I feel the use of SLOOH is a great contribution to Astronomy Education. I believe that is what this board/forum is all about.

Keep Looking Up.

jamesd_wallace2

Well, I have now tried Slooh, and here is my opinion.

I signed up for the free 7-day trial tonight and entered a group mission. I did like the interface and can see how it is attractive to users. It also appeared to have a diverse and interesting "target list". The effect of the photons building up gradually to reveal the target was neat, but there seemed to be some added artificial noise to enhance the live feel, a bit weird.

Anyway, I quickly decided to cancel. I feel they have totally missed the point with the service: The "missions" are MUCH too short - 5 or 10 minutes. However, that is barely enough time for the image to build. Once it starts to get interesting, the scope switches to the next object. So all sense of observing is lost - it feels more like a slide show.

Maybe if the enhance the service, I could be interested again - mostly due to the often bad weather where I live. We'll see. But for now, I'll have more fun on rainy nights with Starry Night and image archives.

Just my 0.02 swedish kronor.

If they are truly solo missions, the user should be able to specify a certain set of coordinates. Isn't that how the supernova confirmations are done? Or do they use a galaxy setting?

__________________
http://cleardarksky.com/c/DrhmNCcs0.gif

Thousand Pardons,

The solo missions can be driven by users coordinates or by a selection from a list of missions that also appear in the Group missions. The solo missions do not allow the user to actually set the filter/CCD setting yet. Those types of solo features will be available in the Advance Observing upgrade.

Keep Looking Up.

jamesd_wallace2