I am going to be purchasing a viewing device within the next day or two. I am looking for advice, your personal experiences, both good and bad.

As this is the first purchase I am going to make, I am wanting to keep the cost down, say under 125 USD.

I have seen people talking about bino's instead of telescopes for starters. I went to a sporting goods store to look at some bino's and none were mountable which was a major complaint I seem to remember people having. The guy in the store mentioned that maybe a spotting scope (almost all have tri-pods included) would definately be more stable, but he wasn't sure about night use for star gazing. If anyone has any thoughts on them as a possibility I would like to hear your thoughts/ideas.

I know I am asking for a lot, but I am wanting to start viewing sooner than later, but realistically I will be unable to make another purchase for about 8-9 months. (I am moving back to Phx, AZ later this year. =D> ) So that's it in a nutshell. Thanks for any responses.


P.S. Please be as specific in any recommendations you have so I can look at purchasing options.

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Calvin: Sometimes when I'm talking, my words can't keep up with my thoughts. I wonder why we think faster than we speak.
Hobbes: Probably so we can think twice.

~Calvin & Hobbes~

Binoculars. It's unlikely you'll be able to get a decent telescope for that amount of money. I enjoy using binoculars more because I get better views of the sky through them. I only use a telescope when I want to look at specific objects up close.

I kind of assumed that to be the case when I couldn't even find a telescope at 3 stores I visited.

Any pointers on what I should look for in the bino's? I have only used them for Military/Hunting applications & I am not trusting that the same "good" selling points apply.

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Calvin: Sometimes when I'm talking, my words can't keep up with my thoughts. I wonder why we think faster than we speak.
Hobbes: Probably so we can think twice.

~Calvin & Hobbes~

Light-gathering ability is the key. For astronomy, 7x50 (i.e. 7x magnification, 50mm objectives) is much better than 10x30. I don't have any specific recommendations, but take a look at the reviews on www.cloudynights.com or www.excelsis.com.

If somehow you could get a good used Zeiss binocular, I would urge you to consider them. My father got one and the difference is very significant.

I would bet you could find some sort of binocular mount even if it's not much more than a stick.

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

I found binocular tripod adapters on eBay for $4. (Of course, shipping was $6, penny wise....) Take a look at... this item to see the kind of thing I'm talking about. You need to get binoculars with a tripod mount, of course. I started thinking mine didn't have one until I found it was under a cap in the hinge, which is where that adapter screws in. Now I'm just waiting to get my hands on a tripod, and consoling myself by telling myself that if I'd gotten the tripod, it would be just as useless until I got the adapter. :wink:
Though I don't know firsthand yet, I think one of the best uses for the tripod-mounted binoculars (besides the obvious jitter elimination) would be that you can point it at something and then let someone else take a look, rather than having to explain starhopping to a newbie right off the bat.

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GhiaPet Home Page

I have been cruising ebay a little and am thinking of going that way for now. It seems to me that I can get a decent bottom line scope for the same price of a midline set of bino's and with out the mount/tripod issues.

I have a basic understanding of how the reflector v. refractor work technically. What I lack is understanding the difference when viewing. Is there a difference in views presented? or is it 2 different means of achieving the same picture?


(Edit for spelling.)

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Calvin: Sometimes when I'm talking, my words can't keep up with my thoughts. I wonder why we think faster than we speak.
Hobbes: Probably so we can think twice.

~Calvin & Hobbes~

You might want to share with us what, specifically, you have found out there in the price range you are considering. There are pros and cons to everything.

Do you know what objects you prefer to observe? What about terrestial viewing of birds, etc.?

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

$125 is not a lot to spend on any scope. The only recommendation that comes to mind is the 80mm short tube sold by Apogee Inc., that comes with an Alt-Az mount. I think it sells for $99, plus shipping.

Other than that, check out Big Binoculars for some reasonably priced astronomy binos. I think their larger binoculars come with a tripod adapter.

I wouldn't recommend buying anything from a sporting goods store. The binoculars there are good enough for daytime viewing or for aid in starhopping with a telescope, but not as a primary astronomical instrument.

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I like crinoids.

I picked up some Bushnell 16x50's at academy for about 60 bucks then spent another 7 bucks on the tripod mount. I love them.

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The More I learn, The More Ignorant I Become

Eagle Eye Observatory

OK, these are just typical stats from some of the listings I am considering.


1) Barska
900mm x 114mm OPTICAL DIAMETER 114mm=Reflector
FOCAL LENGTH = 900mm
RESOLVING POWER = 1.0
FINDER SCOPE 6x30mm
EYE PIECES H6 and H20
TRIPOD = Fully adjustable height, solid aluminum construction with accessory tray
INCLUDED ACCESSORIES = 2x barlow lens, 1.5x Erecting prisms, Moon Filter

2) 76700M Model NEWTONIAN REFLECTOR
FEATURES
Aperture: 76mm (3")
Focal length: 700mm
Focal ratio: F/9
Finderscope: 5x24
Easy to use altazimuth mount
Heavy duty adjustable alluminum tripod with accessory tray. Maximum tripod height (to the point where it is attached to the tube) is 54".

ACCESSORIES
Three standard size eyepieces with 1¼" focuser: SR 4mm (175x), H 12.5mm (56x), and H 20mm (35x)
1.5x Erecting Eyepiece
2x Barlow lens for a total magnification of 350x
Instruction manual included

3) SHORT TUBE NEWTONIAN EQUATORIAL REFLECTOR TELESCOPE

Diameter=150mm (6") - Focal point=750mm (30") and 1400mm (55")
PL6.5mm eyepiece
2x Barlow
PL25mm eyepiece
Moon Filter
1.5x Erecting Eyepiece
Metal tube

4) Tasco ** This afternoon there were about 4-5 w/similiar stats, atm this is the only refractor listed. **
FEATURES AND SPECIFICATIONS:·
FOCAL LENGTH: 800mm
MAGNIFICATION: 660x
TELESCOPE TYPE: REFRACTOR
MOUNT: ALT-AZIMUTH 1/STAB
EYE PIECES: (1.25'') H25mm (28x), H12.5mm (64x), SR4mm (200x)
FINDERSCOPE: 6x24mm
METALLIC CHAMPAGNE FINISH
ADJUSTABLE ALUMINUM TRIPOD
OBJECTIVE LENS DIAMETER: 60MM
FOCAL RATIO: F/13
BARLOW LENS: 2x/3.3x ·
INCLUDED ACCESSORIES(FREE): SkyWatch CD-ROM with 10,000 object database, Diagonal, Moon filter, Solar Projection screen :


This is a good sampling of what is out there in my current price range. As far as viewing, I am more interested in viewing the planets/features and possibly some deeper stuff if possible. If pushed for an answer I would say better quality within our Solar system over deeper viewing, if that helps.

I appreciate the help so far. I am lost in the options, and want to make a decently informed purchase.

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Calvin: Sometimes when I'm talking, my words can't keep up with my thoughts. I wonder why we think faster than we speak.
Hobbes: Probably so we can think twice.

~Calvin & Hobbes~

Thanks for the links, I will look into those as well. The amount I have to spend is why I assumed Bino's would be the only decent option. I can spend a little more on a scope if it's going to be one that I'm not going to outgrow in a really short time, that's why I figured I would at least check out ebay. I understand the risk involved there and it's acceptable to me.

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Calvin: Sometimes when I'm talking, my words can't keep up with my thoughts. I wonder why we think faster than we speak.
Hobbes: Probably so we can think twice.

~Calvin & Hobbes~

AZgazer, Seriously, for the price range you have, Binoculars are going to be your best bet. Celestal viewing is all about light gathering, not magnification.

A set of Binoculars is a great way to get started. You will be able to see the phase of Venus, the moons of Jupiter, possibly the rings of Saturn. I am able to see NEAT with the set I have and they were only about $60 bucks, and another 7 for the tripod mount.

The thing is, if you purchase a telescope that is NOT suited to your needs it could have the adverse affect of turning you off astronomy completely. Inexpensive telescopes have questionable optics, possible collimation problems, and generally are not tools but rather toys.

For your immediate price range, a Set of Bino's will help you accomplish several things. First it will get you out there. Second, you will have a decent set of optics that you can use while you save money for a decent scope. This is exactly where I am right now cause my scope is going ot cost about $800. If I lose interest in astronomy during this time, well then, I have money saved up and a cheap pair of Binoculars I can use for other things.

I gurantee you can get some decent Binoc's, a Tripod mound and a tripod for under $100. Don't feel bad about it, because I can also Gurantee that there is not a person posting on this board that wouldn't want a better scope. Hell, BA gets to use Hubble, and I'll bet even he wants a better scope.

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The More I learn, The More Ignorant I Become

Eagle Eye Observatory

You might enjoy this basic scope site... here

The key for planet viewing will be lens, or mirror, diameter. You need light gathering and resolution.

116/dia. (in mm) is a general rule for resolution of objects in arc. seconds. Jupiter is about 35 to 45 arc seconds in diameter as a reference.

You can only get reasonably clean magnification in the 50x dia. (inches). So, a 4 inch can go up to 200x (not 600x).

I have an 8" and use my Dad's $800 Zeiss binocs more. My brother and I gave him a $80 gift certificate for his birthday to an outdoor store and he came back with the binocs. I came out pretty good, too.

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

That site is exactly what I needed, I was starting to feel like a pester with so many seemingly basic questions. This purchase is going to be it for a little while though, so I definately want to get it as right as possible. TYVM.

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Calvin: Sometimes when I'm talking, my words can't keep up with my thoughts. I wonder why we think faster than we speak.
Hobbes: Probably so we can think twice.

~Calvin & Hobbes~

This article covers things you should consider when shopping for binoculars.

Orion, Celestron, Oberwerk, and Apogee make very decent binoculars in that price range.

Don't worry about being a pest, thats what his board is here for. I was all set to get an ETX90 but after spending time here and chatting I decided to go with a Dobson. I figure the Goto feature isn't that important right now, I want 10" of light gathering goodness first.

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The More I learn, The More Ignorant I Become

Eagle Eye Observatory

Oh, I forgot to add...

If you wear eyeglasses (as I do, full-time), you'll definitely want to look closely at the manufaturers' specs for eye relief. In my case, that was a substantial factor, and the differences between many pairs I tried out were very pronounced. :wink:

Gah, I hadn't even thought about that. #-o I have started wearing glasses full time myself from the time when I seperated from the Military and had used bino's a lot. Any advice on eye relief stats? I will be wearing glasses when viewing.

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Calvin: Sometimes when I'm talking, my words can't keep up with my thoughts. I wonder why we think faster than we speak.
Hobbes: Probably so we can think twice.

~Calvin & Hobbes~

I agree with skrap1r0n - for $125, you can get usable binoculars or a junk scope.

I'd like to point out one thing from your list of scope specs:

If they're claiming 660x magnification from a 60mm scope, they are simply lying. Oh, the supplied eyepieces might deliver 660x, but you will see nothing. If you had superb optics and perfect seeing conditions, the best you can ever hope to get is about 60x per inch of aperture. This doesn't really matter most of the time (your main concern is faintness, not small size, but would you buy something being advertised so dishonestly?

Incidentally, if you're looking for more advice, have you considered, um... www.badastronomy.com? Some good stuff under "Links".

I am considering ebay as a more expensive alternative. My thoughts were "For $125 I didn't think I could get a usable scope, but it's worth looking into." (I had not priced a scope in at least 10 years, so I had no idea at all what I was looking at cost wise.) I quickly realized my original assumption was right on only spending $125. So then it became, "If I go to ebay and spend $200 or so could I get something worthwhile in a scope, and if so which would I be better off with?"

I had previously read that cheaper brands try and toss in gaudy magnification numbers and that most people find enjoyable observing in the 50-200x range IIRC. So I wasn't as concerned with that stat. That scope's maker is also why I tagged it. I wouldn't buy a bb gun scope made by them, let alone a telescope unless the BA himself came down and declared it be so.

My biggest concern now is where is the first real jump in scope quality price wise? I have found some with MSRPs (that I have verified) upwards of $600-$800 that I might be able to get now. (If the ebay Gods smile on me.) Getting into that price range of scope am I still going to be better of with binoc's and a tri-pod?

Once again I thank everyone for their input. I have asked for opinions and have learned a lot that has definately saved me money and undoubtedly frustration as well. I had switched gears on price .vs value and I thought I had related that. #-o I apologize for that confusion.

Hopefully I will have something to look through soon and can then share some experiences.

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Calvin: Sometimes when I'm talking, my words can't keep up with my thoughts. I wonder why we think faster than we speak.
Hobbes: Probably so we can think twice.

~Calvin & Hobbes~

In a nutshell (for me, anyway), the longer, the better!

I had originally set my sights on a pair of Orion 15x70 Little Giant IIs. When I checked them out in person, I discovered that they only offered 8mm of eye relief... so when I was looking through them, I'd have had to smash right up against them in order to (maybe) resolve a clear image.

Realizing that, I tried a pair of 15x80 MegaViews that offered a generous 20mm of eye relief in comparison, which was infinitely more comfortable for me. Ended up taking those home.

The best advice I can give is to find a shop that carries models specifically designed for astronomy and try out as many as you can. You'll notice the difference immediately and be able to find something comfortable for you and your vision.

I was the most impressed with the optical quality and totally long eye relief on the Celestron Ultima models, but they're a lot more than what you want to spend.

I have the Bausch and Lomb Legacy 10x50 and Celestron Skymaster 15x70. I really enjoy the Celestron, though the chromatic aberation is noticeable. They have 18 mm eye relief, and were cheap. (~CDN$140 last summer - I paid more for the B&L in 1998)

I also have the original model 90 mm Meade ETX with the simple clock drive. I find my most enjoyable views are with the 26 mm Plossl eyepiece, often using a 2x Barlow as well, which yields magnifications of 48x and 96x. I don't care much for using the 9.7 mm eyepiece to yield 129X because I have to cram my eye right up close to get a decent view. The eye relief on the 40 mm eyepiece, which gives a 31x magnification, is really long and I find it "unnatural" to have to "hover" over the eyepiece to get the proper picture. Maybe if I wore glasses. . . ?

Under $125 US? Binoculars, nothing else.

That sum spent on a telescope will be wasted, and you will be frustrated by poor equipment. That sum spent on good binoculars (50mm objective lenses minimum) will be a lifetime investment, and you will have a great time observing, especially under dark skies.

8)

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Wolverine thanks for the eye relief info. I can't ebelieve I hadn't even thought about that being an issue. Funny thing about you recommending the Celestrons, I had looked at 2 of their scopes on ebay and told my fiance' they looked more solid (construction wise) than most I had viewed.

I have looked at enough pictures today to make my head explode, I am about to go buy a Capt. Crunch around the corner scope and use it. ](*,) I will have some great stories of my UFO's I am sure. (Unidentified Food Object :P )

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Calvin: Sometimes when I'm talking, my words can't keep up with my thoughts. I wonder why we think faster than we speak.
Hobbes: Probably so we can think twice.

~Calvin & Hobbes~

Do you have astigmatism? I have a very slight astigmatism myself, but I find that I usually prefer to look through my binoculars without the glasses, usually by eyeballing the star (or bird, depending on the time of day) I have in mind and then pushing my glasses up on my forehead while I put my binoculars to my eyes. Sure, I look like a dork doing it, but it works for me. :wink: I use the diopter to compensate for the different vision in my two eyes, and the astigmatism is slight enough to be barely noticeable. If you have bad astigmatism, of course, you'll definitely want to do your viewing with glasses on. Otherwise, you might at least consider this approach.

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GhiaPet Home Page

You only need to keep your glasses on for viewing if you suffer from astigmatism. Any short/long sightedness can be corrected for by focusing the binocs.

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. . . My moustache is touching my brain!!!!

If that's your budget, you might be better off with a telescope, but you will need to do your homework. $600-$800 is beyond bad scope territory, but you'll need to separate the good scopes from those which are just OK. Partly, this depends on your needs: how dark are your skies? do you need something portable? deep sky or solar system? do you want goto? etc, etc...

I bought a scope earlier this year after about three months of research (but I tend to read reviews before buying a pint of milk). Two websites I found really useful while working through all this were www.scopereviews.com and especially www.belmontnc.org, which has a very helpful "About Telescopes" tutorial.

[-X Not true! I am extremely nearsighted; -8 diopters of correction (20/1100). I cannot focus most binocs on objects in the sky without my glasses (bummer)!

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Any day you wake up on "the right side of the dirt" is a good day.

T. Anderson

I did things a little backwards and ended up with a scope first. When I first started astronomy as a serious hobby I worried that binoculars wouldn't be enough and would be a waste of money, especially since I was planning to get a scope eventually anyway.
I ended up doing naked eye astronomy for about a year while I saved up for a scope. After, I had been oberving for a while and was totally hooked, I decided that I wanted a set of binos for wide angle viewing. I love my binos and use them regularly.
So, a good set of binoculars are definately better than a "toy" scope.
As far as where to look check out www.astromart.com and look at the classifieds under binoculars. You can generally find a pretty good deal in the price range you are looking at. I also concur with ChesleyFan about www.bigbinoculars.com Oberwerks are a great "bang for the buck bino".
If you are still undecided go to a star party if you can find a local astronomy club and try out everyones equiptment. You might get lucky and find someone ready to upgrade who is willing to sell their old equiptment cheap to a good home. (thats what happened to me)
Good luck

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