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Sticking here strickly with GR, the main reason for the search for gravitons, is that GR is a classical theory, in the sense that GR isn't quantizied. Under a quantum theory of gravity, gravity would be force, mediated by gravitons (much as the electromagnetic force is mediated by photons). As for gravitons, since gravity is purely attractive, it would have to be a spin two boson. Since the effects of gravity move at c, the graviton would be massless. The questions then become does the graviton interact between mass or energy causing the appearance of curvature or does the graviton interact between spacetime (or the Higgs particle) and mass or energy, actually producing the curvature of spacetime. Those are the million dollar questions.
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Some try to tell me, thoughts they cannot defend,... - Moody Blues. |
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Hey, Steve, sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
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Some try to tell me, thoughts they cannot defend,... - Moody Blues. |
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great question i have often wondered the same thing myself...
somehow i dont really like the idea of gravitons but hey ho when the L H C gets going next year we might find out ! they will be able to see a higgs boson if it is there and also might find signs of the extra dimensions that gravity is in? it could be said ((could it?)) that there is no such thing as space just relations between things.... lol or is that no things and just folded up space i forget... i really am optomistic that the LHC will give us a clue the CERN LARGE HADRON COLLIDER podcast is very intresting on this subject.... i especially liked the idea he put forward that gravity is so weak as it is not just restricted to our four dimensions....so is reall is as strong as the other forces but alot of its power is out of our ''brane' ![]() |
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If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it... of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms... Albert Einstein |
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Some try to tell me, thoughts they cannot defend,... - Moody Blues. |
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If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it... of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms... Albert Einstein |
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OK. Poured a Bourbon - checking it out. The weekend starts early here in New Zealand.
![]() Town has gone crazy 'cos Justin Timberlake is playing the Vector Arena tonite - I'd swap JT for this guy Lisi any day! Geez - they're even talking about a movie! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...scisurf121.xml
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If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it... of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms... Albert Einstein |
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Ouch. Here's one guy who doesn't like the new theory:
http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/11/ex...theory-of.html ... but like I said, you gotta dig the personalities!
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If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it... of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms... Albert Einstein |
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It will be interesting if any of the predictions regarding the missing 18 (I think) particles turn up at CERN next year.
I don't 'get' a lot of it, I have to admit, but I kinda like the sound of Lisi, I'm hoping he's on to something - I'm not sure this theory is gonna be of the magnitude of Relativity or anything like that. But, like I said, a lot of it is beyond me. The vitriol from some of Lisi's 'academia' detractors is a bit of an eye-opener. I guess just 'cos you're smart don't necesarily make you a nice guy! If this really is something big, it's pretty cool to see it happen in 'real time'.
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If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it... of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms... Albert Einstein Last edited by Steve Limpus : 24-November-2007 at 08:56 AM. |
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I was trying to get a handle on what Lisi's point is. This from CBC News seems to sum it up:
"In short, Lisi's paper tries to find a mathematical way to unite the interactions of all the particles in the universe, from force-carrying particles called bosons to fermions like electrons and quarks, which combine to make up matter. http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2...verything.html
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If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it... of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms... Albert Einstein |
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If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it... of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms... Albert Einstein |
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..well yeah, but I'd be happy if anyone was thinking about making a movie of my Theory Of Everthing. I'm not sure who would play me. Daniel Craig maybe. A date once told me I looked like Richard Dreyfuss... ...oh well, never mind... ![]()
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If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it... of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms... Albert Einstein |
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This is pretty good, by Starkind, from this forum: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=198717
"The basic question has to do with the nature of matter, which is of course made up of atoms and molecules, as every freshman probably knows. Your first course in chemistry will probably teach you about how atoms are held together into molecules by electromagnetic forces, chiefly between the outermost electrons of the atom. You will also learn that the center of the atom is the nucleus, which in turn is made up of protons, neutrons, and some other smaller particles which appear only when the nucleus is broken into smaller bits by a fission reaction. Then there were a couple of corrections from Belliott4488 , but I reckon Starkind did a good job (these guys are fairly hardcore!): "Starkind: Yes, you did misspeak on a few points. For example, gluons are the carriers of the strong interaction, not the weak, which is carried by the W+,W-, and Z particles, which are massive. The Higgs is not a gauge boson, and as such is not a carrier of a gauge interaction. It does couple to other particles and gives rise to their masses by virtue of this interaction, but that's not the same as gravity (and has nothing to do with the strong interaction). Gravitons are indeed the carriers of gravity in quantum field theories of gravity, but they're not part of the Standard Model. There are a few other places where I'd question your description of the SM and related matters, but I'll leave it at that." And I found this way helpful (from Starkind again) getting what the E8 thing is all about: "My current understanding of E8 is that it is a mathematical object in 234 (IIRC) dimensions. The idea of projecting the object onto a lower dimensional surface is kind of like taking a wire model of a cube, holding it above a sheet of paper in the sun, and tracing the shadows. There are several ways you can turn the wire frame cube to get different patterns on the paper. These are symmetries, all of which are required to get an idea of what the higher dimensional object (in this shadow case, the wire frame cube) actually "looks" like. "The standard model uses the observable 3 dimensions of space and one of time. The Lisi model does not require extra dimensions of space and time. The dimensions of the E8 system are mathematical, not physical dimensions. ...that's a lot to quote, but I found it interesting, hope someone enjoys it...
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If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it... of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms... Albert Einstein |
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__________________
If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it... of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms... Albert Einstein |