The symmetry arguments by Freddo are very good. But to me (and I think others) an extraordinary claim such as a civilization on Mars needs extraordinary evidence and no amount of photo-manipulation is every going to meet that requirement. There are archaeological sites on Earth that have been found by "visual" reconnaissance from above (visual in quotes, because some have been done by ground-penetrating radar, so not quite "visual"). Yet no archaeologist is going to take that as proof. You have to go down to the ground and dig.

Similarly, I don't think any serious archaeologist is going to claim that some random chunk of rock is an artifact based just on the overall shape. IMHO (and I'm sure I've made this point before) you need other evidence. Among other evidence would be microscopic examination showing tool marks (on a flint arrow for example), compositional changes showing processing/heating (in pottery for example), or proximity to other artifacts indicative of human activity (charcoal from a fire, human remains).

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

One of the mirrored images clearly has at its center a human stick figure along the lines of Vitruvian man, while the other has an indignant alien rather like a tribble with big eyes. This provides conclusive proof that the Pentagon is hosting a dark alliance between humans and aliens.

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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

Very nifty, Freddo. Thanx.

Actually, that second one looks like fractal wallpaper or something...kewl.

Aren't the Pentagon and Colosseum rotationally symmetric already? No bilateral needed!
Love the infrared grass=red color map, though.

The simplest explanation for Cydonia is the most elegant - why do we need to posit whole civilizations when nature will do the job? Knowledge of geologic forces that can produce landscapes is sufficient to explain whole planet loads of terrain - why make it more complicated than necessary? Obviously, each particular feature has a specific history: this boulder slid into that one, which changed the balance and caused a landslide, changing the cliff face, etc.

Did I just say face? Sorry.

Anyway, we may never know the details of how every little rock came to be where it is on Mars, but the principles of geology and physics should be sufficient to explain the data we discover.

Maybe we need a mutli blade Occam's razor to deal with City Slickers; the first blade lifts their argument while the second blade cuts it before it can snap back close to the skin. Mmmmm, close shave! One blade doesn't seem to work for some folks.

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Lyford Rome
"Zis is not nuts, zis is super-nuts!"
Mathematician Richard Courant on viewing an Orion test

Vegetation generally shows up red in infrared photography.

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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

Absolutely correct. There are even Earth examples. There is the Old Man of the Mountain in New Hampshire.
LINK
I never heard any theories that he was created by any ancient civilizations.

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

Didn't the Old Man collapse?

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Quaeso quousque humi defixa tua mens erit? Nonne aspicis, quae in templa veneris?

Yep.
LINK
So does that prove or disprove that it was created by ancient Martians? 8-[

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

Thought so. Kind of a shame...

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Quaeso quousque humi defixa tua mens erit? Nonne aspicis, quae in templa veneris?

You're absolutely right, I totally agree - the next point I was going to make is that a success on a bilateral symmetry analysis wouldn't impress me either.

I've said before:I see it! It's one of those secret societies of Para-Idols...

The centre of the second, ToSeeks "tribble," would make a great Rorschach.

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bunk: Empty talk; nonsense.
de·bunk: To expose or ridicule the falseness, sham, or exaggerated claims of.
http://home.iprimus.com.au/eddo/images/fredheadtsp.gif

Well, an image like the Nazca lines coming from MOC might stir the pot a bit:

But, yes, images per se aren't gonna be the last word. (Of course, the PanCam on the rovers is more than a camera, it's a bona fide calibrated scientific instrument.) A real whopper of an image would not be conclusive, it would just mean more studies by other instruments, radar, etc, and finally:

Woo hoo!

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Lyford Rome
"Zis is not nuts, zis is super-nuts!"
Mathematician Richard Courant on viewing an Orion test

The Square: As a forensic TOOL
==============================

The Square can be:

Fundamentally: a (90* right angle)


And Obviously:
-A Square.

but also:

Immutable,therefore it Speaks of it's OWN Authority.
(I cannot change a Square's properties can YOU?)

-A two dimensional representation of a 90* right angle(Mirrored | forming...)
...a self referential "analog" or a Positive/negative by way of it's diagonal Axis ,that Proves itself,by itself.
therefore a (90* right angle as a Fundamental Foundation can Square itself,without your or my assistance)
-(A 2-D graphical representation/ cross-section of...a cube)
-A component of 3 axes that make 2-D Squares/vice-versa)

-A Triangle/Phil's "3 points"

-A Square/Phils' "4 points"(but don't make a SQUARE)

-a Compass

A graph-(as a Graph/Square---also as a PROBABILITY solving tool/Two points(cubes) spinning and the RESULT mathematically -vs-Chaos***reality***.)

http://nces.ed.gov/nceskids/Graphing/
------------------------------------------
A SQUARE is proven to include:

-Washington D.C.(Earth analog)


-The Square Complex(MARS analog)


-Truth(SQUARE analog)


==========================================
Also a Square is the basis of the graphical represention of "basically' the Truth in a poly-(GRAPH)
Therefore -Truth/proof- can be represented as SQUARE.
http://www.glencoe.com/sec/math/geom...ers/Gch8p3.htm


This is partially the reason why Square will be one of our constant measures in this inquiry,no-one can "Lie" about "Truth"

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With a Forked Tongue the Snake Singsss...

Sounds right.

There I was, enjoying a nice nap, when I started to have a dream that a post on the BABB needed reading. Sure enough, it was true. Now to go do some bowling and then back to sleep.

BTW, I see our intrepid explorer has discovered plain plane geometry.

Yawn! Night all...

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A person's name, or a mark representing it, as signed personally or by deputy, as in subscribing a letter or other document.

Here some info about freemason`s symbolic numbers.
As you will see they are not pretending have something to do with Cydonia.
Maybe it is their leader Lucifer who have starting the party on Mars. #-o
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...emason_sig.htm

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...washington.htm

Uh, yep. Change the lengths of the sides. A square can have sides of any length, they just all have to be equal.


Hardly a square, since the sides don't connect at one corner. Not to mention, there is nothing in the image (if you take the superimposed lines out of the image) that would indicate that the image contains a square of that particular size and location.


Again, the large square is completely arbitrary. Why that particular size? Why aren't other craters and other straight features included?


Not really, because its only proof/truth in Euclidean gometry and since Mars surface is curved, we have to use non-Euclidean geometry. In Euclidean gometry a square has all interior angles of 90 degrees and all sides equal. In non-Euclidean geometry if the sides are equal, the angles are no longer 90 degrees. if you keep the angles at 90 degrees, the sides are no longer equal. Either way, your proof/truth does not work on a curved Martian surface. You might want to say that an image is flat and Euclidean gometry can be used, but the image is not curved like the Martian surface, and so the image is not a truth.

Sorry, on a curved surface, it can't be a constant, so it can't be a truth (by your reasoning). So now what?

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Some try to tell me, thoughts they cannot defend,... - Moody Blues.

Neptune- The original Dark Matter.

The author feels that this technique of deliberately lying will actually make it easier for you to learn the ideas. - Donald Knuth

Even if there is a square there (and I agree with Tensor, I don't see it), it doesn't prove it is not natural.

Pyrite (FeS2) crystal in a matrix of other rock.
I have several samples like this in my own collection. Squares and cubes are natural.

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009
All moderation in purple

Excellent Swift!
That is at the hands of Nature,a beautiful picture.
But there is a difference between that Cube and a "Designed" Cube.
=========================
This is the Lesson of the Ashlar(A Modified geologic Unit):
AN Ashlar has three phases,Chaos -Intelligent Tooling- Order.

-In it's chaotic state it is a lump of rock,A Stone.

-With Intellgence and Tools,Work is performed,Honing the Stone.

-Squared and Finished,it becomes an Ashlar.

Take one of the Great Pyramid's Blocks for example:
intrinsically Identical to the Quarry bed it came from.
But imbued with Intelligent design,Modified geology.

These enigmatic Structures in Cydonia May in fact Just be ROCKS.
but MODIFIED by intelligence.

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With a Forked Tongue the Snake Singsss...

Which takes us back to Swift's point, that in order to prove modification by intelligence, you need to look for alternate lines of evidence beyond just the photography, such as tool marks, evidence of manufacturing processes, etc.

We can be sure the great Pyramid of Egypt is artificial because we have - worked stone blocks, 2 million of them stacked in a way that would be tough to explain as a result of chance, geometrical regularity, and decorated internal galleries including paintings and hieroglyphics, in a location where we know there was a civilization present through a number of other means.

If I came across a single stone like one from the Great Pyramid, on it's own far out in the Antarctic dry valleys, it would attract my attention as it is regular and looks shaped, but I would be suspicious until I could examine it more closely, look for evidence of it being worked. I certainly wouldn't accept an explanation of artificial origin based purely on a grainy photograph of it taken from a distance.

At the Viking resolution, the land forms in Cydonia (including our 'Face') might just have passed as plausibly artificial, there wasn't enough resolution to decide one way or the other. But the fact that Cydonia is a region of thousands of similarly sized mesas, part of the chaotic terrain between the Martian highlands and lowlands, was strong reason to be sceptical.

With the higher resolution images from MGS MOC and Themis, the apparent artificiality has fallen away and the features look more, not less, natural.

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"We need rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

Electric Ashalar, none of your poetic metaphysical drivelings on a square change one iota the fact that the square you highlight is largely in your mind. There are a couple of features that are suggestive of a square, but then you have to ignore a couple of them for the square to actually work, and the square is dependent upon subjective selection of the features to make it work. There is no external justification for the majority of the features used to define your square - ergo, the square is a mental projection and not a true feature.

A lot of seemingly impossible stuff is very natural. Even the Fortress Of Solitude can apparently now be found in nature -


Giant Crystal Cave


Pattern recognition is instinctual. The mind is really, really good at it. Since the evolutionary consequences of false negatives (didn't see the tiger in the brush) far outweigh those of false positives (sorry, nothing there, my bad), our brains constantly want to find stuff out there. It's what's kept us alive over the millenia.

So while we can be excused for perceiving more than what's there at times, be it seeing a face in the mountain or imagining someone following us, we can't be excused from subjecting those perceptions to further scrutiny.

This is why the cat always runs away from the vacuum (loud sound bad- run!) and we don't. Our rational minds can supress those instinctual reactions with logic (yes, normally loud sound bad, but allergies even badder, so I have to vacuum up all this &%^#$&# cat hair.)

So while it would be nice to find definitive evidence of past cities on Mars, this ain't it. Or, to drag another favorite pet into the thread, this dog won't hunt.

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Lyford Rome
"Zis is not nuts, zis is super-nuts!"
Mathematician Richard Courant on viewing an Orion test

An Astronomical study of this sort should generally consider, regardless of arbitrary or focused coordinates, the necessary cross-referencing with groundtruth.

The Square as an Exo-Archeological Tool
As on Earth Archeological sites,a grid is formed to map what is unearthed.
This is where the Square can be used to refine our Test for Order.

http://home.1asphost.com/jacobsladder/GRIDLI~1.jpg

Here the square becomes the Prime unit.A system of measure.
it can "Grid Itself".
Since the square(Bold white outline) can Grid itself,What aligns with it?

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With a Forked Tongue the Snake Singsss...

Nah, he's not even listening. I'm outta here.

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"We need rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

And you really can't see this as picking and choosing what you want to use for whatever it is you are going on about? Can't you see all the other stuff which doesn't line up with anything or the fact that you can pick whatever else you want and line it up on another layout? Honestly?

I concider this babbling, well that whole post was. You go, dude.

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You're a coward and a liar and a thOOF - Bart Sibrel

EA has been on this site:http://www.anomalies.net/cgi-bin/bbs...5;t=006925;p=1
and is just as cryptic as here, I might as well throw in arrogant and condescending. If only we were as intelligent as him.....

edit for stewpid spelling.

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"However, I still think that all religions were invented by the Devil to hide God from mankind - and that faith is the ability to believe what you know isn't true."

Arthur C. Clarke from the March 2004 issue of Sky and Telescope Magazine

Thanks. I realize that this won't prove anything to people who are determined to believe, but I think it's useful for comparison's sake. 8)

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"The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient."

This is a valid idea and has helped lead to discoveries of ruins on Earth, such as at Angkor Watand Ubar. Anomalies can indeed be imaged from orbit and determined to be artificial in origin, through mutliple lines of evidence. But Electric Ashalar seems to want a less rigorous, more poetic standard for evidence, based on Pythagorean archetypes or I don't know what.

PS love your sig - WINC!

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Lyford Rome
"Zis is not nuts, zis is super-nuts!"
Mathematician Richard Courant on viewing an Orion test

WINC?

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"The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient."

Thanks Canuck for the link!
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/...eleases/airy0/

To the forum I say:
this website will help you better understand what We can do.

MSSS
QUOTE
For Mars, the prime meridian was first defined by the German astronomers W. Beer and J. H. Mädler in 1830-32.
They used a small circular feature, which they designated "a,"
as a reference point to determine the rotation period of the planet.
The Italian astronomer G. V. Schiaparelli, in his 1877 map of Mars, used this feature as the zero point of longitude.
It was subsequently named Sinus Meridiani ("Middle Bay") by Camille Flammarion."

*Note it took W. Beer and J. H. Mädler (in 1830-32.)years to define this... we can use their work and Codify Cydonia in less than a year.Then TEST.
-They used a small circular feature,which they designated "a,"
I'm proposing a theoretical feature,and designate it "AN" to define one parameter of Cydonia.
-G. V. Schiaparelli, in his 1877 map of Mars, used this feature as the zero point of longitude.
I'm proposing "AN" as a cross reference to these principles.
No mystery there gentlemen.


"Airy-0"
When Mariner 9 mapped the planet at about 1 kilometer (0.62 mile) resolution in 1972,
an extensive "control net" of locations was computed by Merton Davies of the RAND Corporation.
Davies designated a 0.5-kilometer-wide crater (0.3 miles wide),
subsequently named "Airy-0" (within the large crater Airy in Sinus Meridiani)
as the longitude zero point.
(Airy, of course, was named to commemorate the builder of the Greenwich transit.)
This crater was imaged once by Mariner 9 (the 3rd picture taken on its 533rd orbit, 533B03)
and once by the Viking 1 orbiter in 1978 (the 46th image on that spacecraft's 746th orbit, 746A46),
and these two images were the basis of the martian longitude system for the rest of the 20th Century.

I am proposing "AN" in the Same manner

Further,If Cydonia exhibits known properties of a "Ceremonial" complex,Astronomically significant.
I can refine his Model by using His own reference point:
The moment the Sun can be traced back to rising Due EAST and be seen from the "CITY SQAURE"
approx 330,000 Years ago.

Between these data points we can Standardize Cydonia in Virtually anyway,Measure it to within a reasonable degree of,
and allow for acceptable limits of inaccuracy.

By the suggestion of developing New tools,or Modifying Tools already used in research and study,Cydonia can be Codified"

Any member who want's to Further use their own Coordinates,based on Airy-0 ,feel free.

I am going to use "AN" as a personal reference point.
With the principles already accepted when thinking of Airy-O
Think of it as adding "Ares-0" -to- "Airy-0" to See in Stereo!
(how's that for poetry...lol!)

Furthering my efforts to become profient at astronomy,I can already see How most of it works through the Glosaary of terms I've encountered along the way.

This should at least impress upon you that I am applying myself and Learning,Astronomy is Pretty cool stuff!

On the subject of imaginary lines and all that...

I'm basically Using the accepted Methods and "imaginary lines" produced by OTHERS referenced above.

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With a Forked Tongue the Snake Singsss...

EA, I don't know what you are learning, nut it sure isn't astronomy. More like woowoology or something.

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Moraliser Overtax Porn

Witches In Nature's Colors -
http://www.moviewavs.com/cgi-bin/mp3..._Wind=winc.mp3

Another fave Mighty Wind line:

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Lyford Rome
"Zis is not nuts, zis is super-nuts!"
Mathematician Richard Courant on viewing an Orion test