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  #4081 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 11:11 AM
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Oh come on! That could be anywhere!

Last edited by PraedSt; 10-November-2008 at 11:35 AM..
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  #4082 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 11:38 AM
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Is the body a satellite of Jupiter or Saturn?
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  #4083 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 11:54 AM
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Oh come on! That could be anywhere!
There are two significant features about the image that should help you solve this.

I'm not going to dole out any hints until someone has had a few cracks at it.
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Old 10-November-2008, 11:56 AM
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Is the body a satellite of Jupiter or Saturn?
This isn't twenty questions! You'll have to work this one out on your own.

The answer can be deduced through logic.
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Old 10-November-2008, 12:33 PM
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Venus
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  #4086 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 01:45 PM
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This threw me as well.
A little ambiguity can go a long way.[/quote]

I have a hunch the object is somewhat small. Perhaps something like Tethys.
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Old 10-November-2008, 02:12 PM
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Hmm. You might be right. I was going with the view that we probably haven't mapped that many bodies to that degree of accuracy. Toss-up between Mars and Venus.
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Old 10-November-2008, 02:19 PM
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I'm just going to think out loud, here.

With craters twelve km across or larger, the body has to be pretty big, so
I'd say it has to be either a planet or one of what I classify as the "large"
moons. Those large moons are, in descending order of size, Ganymede,
Titan (surface), Callisto, Io, Luna, Europa, and Triton. All the others are
too small to have so many craters that large -- I think.

Of the planets, craters should be difficult to identify on Venus, since we
can only see them with radar, so I would expect very few to have been
identified. I'm quite sure that nowhere near that many craters have been
found on Earth, and certainly not in the ocean beds, so the distribution
is too even for it to be Earth. The northern polar region of Mars is very
smooth compared to most of the planet, very sparse craters there, so
Mars is out. The gas giants are of course out. I'm guessing that the
recent MESSENGER flyby of Mercury imaged the remaining unseen parts
of the planet. If not, it is eliminated, too, but I'll go with the guess that
Mercury has now been imaged, making it the only contender planet.

Of the large Moons, Titan's clouds prevent us from seeing craters there,
and I haven't heard of them being found with radar, and the number is
way to big for that, so Titan is out. Io is constantly resurfaced, so it has
no big craters. Europa's surface is smooth like ice because... it's ice! So
no big craters there. I doubt that the entire surface of Triton has been
imaged. If not, Triton can be eliminated. That leaves Ganymede, Callisto,
and Luna as the only contenders among the moons.

Four possibilities.

Just need to look at some spacecraft images and compare. However,
the possibility that Mercury has finally -- and just recently -- been
completely imaged makes it a particularly attractive guess.

Mercury?

Here's my pre-MESSENGER image of Mercury on my website:
http://www.freemars.org/jeff/planets/Mercury.htm

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Last edited by Jeff Root; 10-November-2008 at 02:40 PM..
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  #4089 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 02:22 PM
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Shouldn't the Moon have noticeably fewer craters on the Nearside due to the distribution of maria?
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  #4090 (permalink)  
Old 10-November-2008, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreasJ View Post
Shouldn't the Moon have noticeably fewer craters on the Nearside due to the distribution of maria?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Root View Post
...so the distribution
is too even for it to be Earth...The northern polar region of Mars is very
smooth compared to most of the planet, very sparse craters there, so
Mars is out.
That's what I figured. Where I've probably gone wrong, is in assuming:
1. Venus has been well mapped, and
2. Nothing else has.
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Old 10-November-2008, 06:38 PM
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ok, since the map is complete it cannot be a body we only know a little about.

This excludes Mercury, and any moon past Saturn (and most of Saturn's moons). It's not earth because of the oceans, and it's not Mars - I know that one well enough. This leaves Venus and some moons. Venus is mostly a new surface.


Io and Europa have few craters. This leaves me with our moon, Ganymede and Callisto.

I'm going with our moon.
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Old 10-November-2008, 09:36 PM
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The image seems to show several craters that are in a neat row. That makes my amateur mind think of Roche limits and Shoemaker-Levy 9 and such, and Jupiter. That would exclude our moon and, going from crosscountry, put Ganymede and Callisto back in favor.

ETA: And since the spread of the craters is pretty even across the surface, I think that would favor Callisto over Ganymede.
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  #4093 (permalink)  
Old 11-November-2008, 10:32 AM
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The correct answer has actually been mentioned, but I want to know why it has to be the correct answer before I award the palm.

Think of crater distributions and what they tell us about a surface...
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Old 11-November-2008, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
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And since the spread of the craters is pretty even across the surface ...
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  #4095 (permalink)  
Old 11-November-2008, 10:37 AM
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... the distribution is too even for it to be Earth ...
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  #4096 (permalink)  
Old 11-November-2008, 12:33 PM
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The correct answer has actually been mentioned, but I want to know why it has to be the correct answer before I award the palm.

Think of crater distributions and what they tell us about a surface...
An 'old' surface, geologically inactive for a long time. And no oceans of course.
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  #4097 (permalink)  
Old 11-November-2008, 01:19 PM
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An 'old' surface, geologically inactive for a long time...
How old?
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Old 11-November-2008, 02:20 PM
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you seem to be insinuating that earth is the answer to your question, but no one here believes that could be true.

but this image disagrees

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Old 11-November-2008, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
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The correct answer has actually been mentioned, but I want to know why it has to be the correct answer before I award the palm.

Think of crater distributions and what they tell us about a surface...
1) an even crater distribution shows that a body can be hit from all sides. 2)It also means that the surface doesn't reshape itself very often. 3)Another thing it tells us is that there is no liquid on the surface.

#1 suggests that our moon isn't correct because one side always faces the earth leaving it less available to outside impacts.

#2 rules out Venus, Io, Europa, and some moons farther out.

#3 means Earth and Titan won't show their craters or that they won't be there at all.
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  #4100 (permalink)  
Old 11-November-2008, 02:36 PM
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How old?
4 billion years?
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  #4101 (permalink)  
Old 11-November-2008, 02:59 PM
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The fact that one side of the Moon always faces Earth shouldn't make any
significant reduction in the size or number of impacts there. About as many
bodies must be deflected toward the Moon by Earth's gravity as deflected
away, and the number actually blocked would be miniscule. Earth is much
too far from the Moon to be a significant shield.

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Old 11-November-2008, 03:22 PM
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4 billion years?
A 4 billion year old surface would be saturated with craters.
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Old 11-November-2008, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
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1) an even crater distribution ... also means that the surface doesn't reshape itself very often ...
I don't follow the logic of this statement. A saturated distribution would imply this, but an even crater distribution implies something quite different - something that virtually gives the game away!
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Old 11-November-2008, 03:32 PM
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A 4 billion year old surface would be saturated with craters.
True, true. I was thinking that there would also be a lot of craters <12km is size.

Then it has to be Venus!


No?
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Old 11-November-2008, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
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you seem to be insinuating that earth is the answer to your question, but no one here believes that could be true.

but this image disagrees
That image has entirely suspicious concentrations of craters in Baltica, Laurentia, and Australia compared to other cratons. One suspects it says almost as much about the distribution of geologists as of craters.
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Old 11-November-2008, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
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A 4 billion year old surface would be saturated with craters.
Without knowning the size of the body, one can't very well tell how saturated it is from that image, can one?
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Old 11-November-2008, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
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Then it has to be Venus!
Yes. You were right all along, though you still haven't spelled out precisely why.

The two things in the image I was hoping you would notice were:

1: Even crater distribution. This implies that the entire surface is all of the same age. If there were some very old regions and some relatively young regions (as on the Moon or Earth), the oldest regions would be saturated with overlapping craters while the youngest regions would be relatively devoid of craters.

2: Low crater frequency. This implies that the surface is relatively young. If it were very old, there would be many more craters.

So, we are looking for a body whose entire surface was recently resurfaced on a global scale. There are only two such bodies:

Io, which is being globally resurfaced by volcanism today; but its surface is so young it has no craters! So that rules out Io.

Venus, which experienced lithospheric turnover about 500 million years ago. Venus it is.

When I posted the question I thought, "No one will think of Venus", so I was a little peeved when PraedSt guessed the right answer right away.
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Old 11-November-2008, 04:58 PM
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That image has entirely suspicious concentrations of craters in Baltica, Laurentia, and Australia compared to other cratons. One suspects it says almost as much about the distribution of geologists as of craters.
Actually those cratons are the oldest surviving pieces of the Earth's crust, and that is why they have more craters.
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Old 11-November-2008, 05:19 PM
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Actually those cratons are the oldest surviving pieces of the Earth's crust, and that is why they have more craters.
Really? As Wikipedia would have it, the African cratons are mostly of older rock than Fennoscandia, frex.
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Old 11-November-2008, 05:40 PM
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One suspects it says almost as much about the distribution of geologists as of craters.
Lol!
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