Wow! I was reading the bullentin board and seeing all these posts about UFOs and alien civilizations, and I was wondering if this board had been taken over. I finally realized I had clicked on the wrong link and was in the Against the Mainstream forum.....Wooooahhh, I'll stay out of that one....

Anyway, I'm reading a great book: At Day's Close, Night in Times Past by A. Roger Ekirch. It's basically a social history of night during the pre-industrial ages (mostly between 1400-1700). According to Ekirch, in pre-industrial times, the first "star" after sunset was called Vesper or the Sheperds-Lamp because of its bright glow. It was actually the planet Venus. People during pre-industrial times were obviously a lot more attuned to the night sky. A popular belief at the time was that night "fell" or "descended" upon the Earth.

My question is this; Is there anyplace on Earth where we can view the night sky as seen by folks in the pre-industrial ages (w/o light pollution). Maybe the middle of the Southern Ocean or Atlantic? How far does light pollution "reach"? Just curious...

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yeah, lots of places obviously, in the middle of the ocean or antartica
More realisticly, if you live in the US, i'd also recommend WAY out in the desert or midwest, as far from the light of any cities or town as possible; in not-heavily populated mountains is pritty good as well, but i've found the desert suprisingly clearer. One good spot is lake meade in nevada... except you can see the lights from los vegas in a corner of the sky, but elsewhere was amazing! we need less light polution, and smog in general

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Central Nevada = astronomer's paradise.

I would know. I used to live there. I remember camping a hundred miles from the nearest podunkville and thinking.... WOOOOWWWW

There are also a lot of good empty places in canada and alaska, but of course your veiw of the summer constellations would be somewhat limited due to that 22 hours of daylight thing they've got going.

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Michigan's Upper Peninsula, northern Wisconsin, northern Minnesota...been to all three of 'em in the dark...oooooohhh...pretty...

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Both rims of the Grand Canyon provide excellent dark sky views. Plus you're 6000 to 8000 feet above sea level. The San Francisco Peaks do a good job of blocking any light from Flagstaff, which isn't that big anyway, and the park does an good job of keeping night lighting under control.

BION, northern Mississippi provides some really dark skies, and the seeing is usually quite good after a cold front cleans things out. Just make sure you aren't driving a car with Yankee license plates while observing out in the boonies. It's usually a really long walk to the nearest car rental agency to acquire their one remaining pickup truck. 8)

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I can't answer the question, but I'd be interested in knowing the answer as well. Even in the most isolated spot on earth today, say Antartica or the middle of the Pacific, would you get a view as good as in the ancient past, or would the light from big cities somehow filter into the atmosphere even at that distance. Given the amount of light, as seen from satellite pictures of the earth, it would seem that the light might reach everywhere from being reflected by clouds and the ocean surface. But maybe it would be such a tiny effect that it would be insignificant.

On a related note, just out of curiosity. During the night, does light from one side of the globe filter to the dark side by being reflected through the atmosphere?

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I don't know what it is like today but 30 years ago I was observing at Mount John University Observatory on the South Island of New Zealand with really dark skies. They turned out the light in the village of Tekapo at about 7PM and all there was was you and the night sky (and the killer sheep all around - but that's another story). The sky looked almost as great as the image I posted in another thread.
http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/vi...=504567#504567

(edited to better specify the URL)

IMO: at the top of the post, you have the text 'posted', and left of it an orange icon. If you click on it, you get the URL of that post.

All: I fear that pollution will have changed the way the sky looks almost everywhere compared to four centuries ago. Still, there are many places left with a good view and without (blatant) light pollution. I've once been in the Alps (the original version), in a hut some 3000 metres high, with no inhabited valley (let alone a city) in sight. Going out at 2 AM, I had the best view of the night sky I ever had. I just had to watch carefully where to put my feet But it was the first time I really understood what the Milky Way was (to people without access to telescopes, I mean), and why there were supposed to be thousands of stars visible to the naked eye.

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Hmm. Judging by the Earth at Night composite APOD ran a few years ago, I'd say Siberia, North Korea, and Central Greenland would be good places in the northern hemisphere. The australian outback, or in the mountains of south america, either would be a decent choice on the southern hemisphere. (* Subject to reality, of course.)

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Interior Maine is also very good. If you can find a spot without a lot of trees.

I'd have to go to the outback then....

It's about a 4hr drive...

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does anyone know of excellent spots for a telescope while in New Zealand? maybe that goes along with a great hiking trail?

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I reject your reality and substitute my own! - Adam Savage

Two by two, hands of blue - River, Firefly

In general, no. Too many refractions and reflections needed.

But you can see something related to this called the gegenschein. This is sunlight reflected back at the Earth from various particles opposite the Sun's position.

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Rural Michigan, right after a thunderstorm.

We get a little light pollution far to the south from Toledo, Ohio (where I live, South Southeastern Michigan, anyway), but aside from that, it's great. We have too many clouds though. It stormed a few hours ago and the stars are starting to come out. I just hope all of the clouds disperse, so I can drag my scope out. Usually I only get 4 great viewing nights a month, and 6 more good ones.

I've been to Arizona to visit my aunt. We were driving at night from Pheonix to Tuscon, and in the middle of the desert, the viewing is AWSOME!

--hippie

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Take a look at this map here.

See the little island at 7N, 144E, Woleai? Electricity there isn't on during the night. When I was last there, there was no artificial light besides flashlights and campfires for almost 400 miles in any direction. Paddling out into the lagoon and turning off the flashlight around midnight is just an unbelievable sight. And folks there know the sky backwards and forwards, its how they navigate from island to island. I've never been anywhere else where not only can everybody you talk to name every star you point to, they can draw any constellation from memory and describe its relation to every other constellation. Even the kids. I don't know if pre-industrial cultures anywhere else were the same, but around there, astronomy isn't a hobby, its a practical, necessary skill.

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There really is nothing like looking at the sky while lying down in a boat in the South Pacific two hundred miles from the nearest electricity. Next time, I'll try to remember a telescope.