Wow! I was reading the bullentin board and seeing all these posts about UFOs and alien civilizations, and I was wondering if this board had been taken over. I finally realized I had clicked on the wrong link and was in the Against the Mainstream forum.....Wooooahhh, I'll stay out of that one....

Anyway, I'm reading a great book: At Day's Close, Night in Times Past by A. Roger Ekirch. It's basically a social history of night during the pre-industrial ages (mostly between 1400-1700). According to Ekirch, in pre-industrial times, the first "star" after sunset was called Vesper or the Sheperds-Lamp because of its bright glow. It was actually the planet Venus. People during pre-industrial times were obviously a lot more attuned to the night sky. A popular belief at the time was that night "fell" or "descended" upon the Earth.

My question is this; Is there anyplace on Earth where we can view the night sky as seen by folks in the pre-industrial ages (w/o light pollution). Maybe the middle of the Southern Ocean or Atlantic? How far does light pollution "reach"? Just curious...

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Greenland, most of northern Canada and Alaska, large parts of Siberia, Antartica, most of the ocean (except near the coast beside large cities).

Those are the first ones to come to mind. Also, very few people like to live in deserts, so those would probably make good observations sites.

Really the only place you can't get a decent view is in towns, or for about 50-75 KM around large cities (in my experience anyway).

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I got an incredible view of the sky in a park in Canada a few years back. Middle of a lake at night, no clouds, no light sources other than the sky for miles in any direction. It was breath taking view, you literally could not miss the big dipper, and that was just for starters. I've never seen so many stars in my life before or since. So yes, it is possible to get a no light pollution view of the sky without going to the middle of the Atlantic. Indeed, I've managed to get a decent view of the sky just a half hour drive or so from my house (though it isn't nearly as good as when I was a kid anymore, too much building up around here).

It is a case of getting outside the light bubble of the community you live in. A few years ago I got out to western New South Wales (Australia) On this hill I could actually see the light bubbles of the local communities that surrounded my location.

Also if you can get a location looking out to sea you will get some pretty hot views

MG

Ha! Ha! Well said!

There are many places with good night views. I live in a large Canadian city (Calgary) but just 50 kms west in the Rockies the skies are crystal clear (we take our scopes). Light polution is an issue many places (that's an understatement) but there are other issues like air flow, pressure, etc. Much of the 'haze' is man made but a lot of it is natural. The way air moves has a dramatic effect. Two cities of comparable emissions into the air can have dramatic different air quality and sky clarity.

Clear skies were not the norm everywhere in pre-industrial times. The air was sometimes choking with all the wood that was burned. Also fire was used to burn refuge and clear crops, etc....right in or near the towns. This is unrelated but I was reading a history of London and as early as the 13th century there was pea soup fog and incredible noise polution. Folks had to shout to be heard during the day but as soon as it got dark there was a curfew and no one allowed on the streets...dead quiet.

Still, let's all curse the invention of the light bulb!

I'm about 5-6 km in a direct line from my local city and on the clear non-full moon night the view is absolutely stunning. Light polution is only a problem when there is some sort of cloud to reflect it really, and that cuts down the visiblity anyways. Of course with a full moon.....

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International Dark Sky Association

A group that does good work.

Everyone that is reading this thread should be a member!

by the way, due to a double posting, this is also being discussed here . I suggest that all further posts go over there.

I agree. I'll lock this one.

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