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Old 26-August-2004, 02:13 PM
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Here is a paper that shows some strong evidence that the supermassive black holes in the centers of galaxies formed before the bulk of the stars in the galaxy.

Caught in the Act?

What the paper gleans from observations of very distant quasars is that the dark matter halo seems to form first, and that the SMBH forms next. Some stars form early very close to the SMBH [providing heavy elements], but there is a huge area of gas ionized by the SMBH [100,000 light years across] of unevolved gas falling into the center of the galaxy.

This is beginning to settle the matter of what came first.
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Old 26-August-2004, 03:51 PM
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The following has been excerpted from:
Caught in the Act?
Zolt´an Haiman
News and Views, Nature, 26 August 2004

Quote:
Ref. 1: Primordial gas is essentially a pure mix of hydrogen and helium, but all of the quasars discovered so far have shown the presence of various heavier
elements (such as carbon, nitrogen, oxygen and iron). This indicates that the gas has been enriched by the nucleosynthetic yields from previous generations of stars. Even the most distant quasars, including those that existed about 1 billion years after the Big Bang (a mere 5% of the current age of the Universe), show significant heavy–element content.


Ref. 2: .....according to Weidinger et al.1, who have detected the faint glow
of hydrogen emission enveloping a distant quasar at a radius equivalent to about 100,000 light years – several times the size of the visible part of a typical galaxy.

Ref. 3: If most of the gas has already cooled and settled at the centre of the halo, the extended fuzz would be absent. Although the fuzz detected by Weidinger et al. is
faint, it is as bright as would be expected if all of the hydrogen needed to make up a typical galaxy is still infalling. As a result, the galaxy imaged by Weidinger et al. is likely to be still in its infancy, despite the fully–formed appearance of its bright central quasar black hole. From the shape and kinematics of the fuzz, the authors were also able to confirm the presence of the dark–matter halo, which is accelerating the infall of the hydrogen gas, and to measure the halo’s mass.
Their value – 2-7×10^12 solar masses – is in accord with independent estimates from spectral absorption features and from the abundance of other quasars of similar brightness.
Ref. 1: How does "significant" presence of heavier elements compare with that of nearby galaxies and those of intermediate age as a function of time? Has anyone constructed a profile of the gradual increase of metallicity with time? Are we avoiding concluding that metallicity is fairly constant through time which supports the theory that from a general perspective the universe is in a steady state and that some process exists (i.e., black hole disintegration or gradual but appreciable "evaporation") that recycles higher mass elements back to H and He.

Ref. 2: Isn't 100,000 light years about average for a MW-type galaxy?

Ref. 3: Two to seven thousand billion solar masses seems a bit heavier than most especially for such infants. Since only ten percent of the gas has been incorporated into the galaxies, it looks like a large portion of the dark matter is unlighted unincorporated gas.

I'm not sure how happy Occam would be of this paper's conclusion. But then speculation is lotsa fun!!
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Old 26-August-2004, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GOURDHEAD@Aug 26 2004, 02:51 PM
Ref. 1: How does "significant" presence of heavier elements compare with that of nearby galaxies and those of intermediate age as a function of time? Has anyone constructed a profile of the gradual increase of metallicity with time? Are we avoiding concluding that metallicity is fairly constant through time which supports the theory that from a general perspective the universe is in a steady state and that some process exists (i.e., black hole disintegration or gradual but appreciable "evaporation") that recycles higher mass elements back to H and He.
The metallicity of quasars is not a reflection of the metallicity of the whole universe at that time. The general presumption is that shortly after or during the formation of the supermassive black holes, that massive [100-200 solar masses] stars formed very near the SMBH from material falling in and being blown out of the SMBH. It would only take a few million years for these to start turning into type II supernovas and enriching the gas falling into the SMBH accretion disk. The relative abundance of metals seen in early quasars is consistant with this model. This article shows that the other gas in the galaxy is metal-free.

BTW, it is also assumed that SMBHs 'evaporate' much more slowly than smaller black holes. They do not recycle heavy elements into Hydrogen or Helium.
Quote:
Ref. 2: Isn't 100,000 light years about average for a MW-type galaxy?
Yes, but in that era, galaxies were rarely bigger than about 10,000 LY across.
Quote:
Ref. 3: Two to seven thousand billion solar masses seems a bit heavier than most especially for such infants. Since only ten percent of the gas has been incorporated into the galaxies, it looks like a large portion of the dark matter is unlighted unincorporated gas.
Right, that would be four to sixteen times the mass of the Milky Way, which is still small compared to the mass of Centaurus A, and the other giant ellipticals we see close by. The point of the paper is that most of the cold dark matter [representing 90% of the mass of the galaxy] was already present as a halo before the bulk of the baryonic matter [that will eventually be luminous] had a chance to begin the galactic star burst.
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