Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > Space and Astronomy > Astronomy
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2005, 11:22 AM
Matthew Matthew is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,713
Default Escaping the event horizon.

The escape velocity for any object closer to the singularity than the event horizon is greater than c. However on the earth the escape velocity is 11.2 km/s, yet craft like the Voyager probes were definetly not launched with this velocity, they had a constant acceleration.

Lets take a Schwarzschild Black Hole with a diameter of 1 ly. Its mass would thus need to be 3.19e42 kg.

The acceleration due to gravity at the event horizon would be 9.5 m/s (a=G{M/r^2}), slightly less than than that on earth. The acceleration due to gravity one meter in from the event horizon of this supermassive black hole does not change appreciably.

Now a small craft launches a small object (say 1 kg) with a velocity of 100 m/s directly behind it (so aiming directly out of the event horizon). The distance the object travels before gravity stops it (v=0) can be calculated using the following equation:


From the point of release the objects moves 526 m, so thus the object gets 525 m from the event horizon. It escaped the event horizon! Without further propulsion being given to the object it would fall back to the black hole. But giving extra propulsion wouldn't be too hard.

So is it possible to escape the event horizon? Or have I missed something in my understanding of the problem?
__________________
MacTalk - The Australian Apple Community - iPod, iPhone and Mac.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2005, 11:42 AM
Champion_Munch's Avatar
Champion_Munch Champion_Munch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: 27º 29' 37" S - 153º 04' 55" E
Posts: 913
Send a message via MSN to Champion_Munch
Default

When you use 'd' in your equations, do you mean 's' (as in displacement, not distance)?

Quote:
Now a small craft launches a small object (say 1 kg) with a velocity of 100 m/s directly behind it (so aiming directly out of the event horizon).
Wouldn't the object have a negative initial velocity, seeing how it was moving in the direction of the black hole with the mother craft before it was launched?

with regards
__________________
All words, phrases, definitions and theories provided in the above post are, unless otherwise stated, the property of Champion Munch © 2005.

Sign up to sue the Sun
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2005, 12:11 PM
Matthew Matthew is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,713
Default

The object is yes moving toward the singularity, but is quickly accelerated to 100m/s after seperation from the mother craft.

Yes "d" is displacement. With 0 on the x-axis intersecting the event horizon. In displacement everything outside the event horizon is taken as positve, while between the event horizon and singularity is taken as negative.

In velocity/acceleration: negative is taken as velocity/acceleration toward the singularity. Positive velocity/acceleration is taken as away from the singularity.
__________________
MacTalk - The Australian Apple Community - iPod, iPhone and Mac.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2005, 12:27 PM
Champion_Munch's Avatar
Champion_Munch Champion_Munch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: 27º 29' 37" S - 153º 04' 55" E
Posts: 913
Send a message via MSN to Champion_Munch
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew
The object is yes moving toward the singularity, but is quickly accelerated to 100m/s after seperation from the mother craft.
Well, if you take away that initial velocity then you could easily end up off by a metre or two...but I can see where this is going - all you have to do is add another m/s or so to the craft's velocity to get it over that limit again.

Unfortunately I know very little about black holes to give you much feedback on this.

with regards
__________________
All words, phrases, definitions and theories provided in the above post are, unless otherwise stated, the property of Champion Munch © 2005.

Sign up to sue the Sun
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2005, 12:42 PM
Matthew Matthew is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,713
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by champion_munch
Well, if you take away that initial velocity then you could easily end up off by a metre or two...but I can see where this is going - all you have to do is add another m/s or so to the craft's velocity to get it over that limit again.
Alright forget about the launch of the small object. When d=-1 m, u=100m/s.

So one meter from the event horizon the small object is travelling at 100m/s away from the singularity.
__________________
MacTalk - The Australian Apple Community - iPod, iPhone and Mac.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2005, 01:21 PM
johninf johninf is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 20
Default

Any space craft ,would be accelerating toward the event horizon or the centre of the black hole.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2005, 04:55 PM
tofu tofu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: florida, USA
Posts: 2,383
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew
So is it possible to escape the event horizon?
Sorry. No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew
Or have I missed something in my understanding of the problem?
You're using Newtonian physics in one of those rare instances where it gives the wrong answers.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.0.0
©  2006 Bad Astronomy and Universe Today