Note added by The Bad Astronomer: In this thread, The Lunar Embassy was mistakenly refered to as The Lunar Republic. These are, evidently, two separate, unaffiliated companies. I have changed the text in the posts to the correct name, but have otherwise left things alone. Please also look at my post on page three of this thread about emails sent to The Lunar Republic.


I am wondering what you all think. This very night I watched Late Night with Conan O'Brien (a great, great show) and he had on the acting-president of the Lunar Embassy. This guy is claiming that he owns the Moon and the other eight planets and their moons. He is selling the acreage on the web to the Moon and to several moons and Venus last I heard.

I had heard of this guy and his organization before, in fact I jokingly ran a campaign to be elected to the Lunar Embassy's Senate. I had a good laugh over this guy, thinking how ludicrous everyone must think he is. But when I saw his interview with Conan, the hilarity left me. People are actually buying what he says. They are buying up acreage on the Moon and elsewhere, according to this guy, two former presidents of the US have bought land, and so have many celebrities (he mentioned George Lukas, Meg Ryan and others).

Obviously, from the conotiation of this message and my signature, I do not believe anyone holds any soverign claim to the Moon or anything beyond our atmosphere. This guy cites a 1960s resolution that says that no coorporation or government can own space, but since they did not say individuals, he found his loophole.

To me this guy is a con-artits. Preying on people's will to own things. He should be stoped, but I do not know how.

This is what I think, what do you all think?

The website of this fool is "http://www.lunarembassy.com"

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Bad Astronomer on 2003-03-18 13:35 ]</font>

just making it so you can seem my signature

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"Real astronomers use kilometers. Hardcore astronomers use centimeters."
- One of the best Phil Plait quotes of all time

Dang i was going to post on this topic. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Welcome to the board!! You will love it here.

I agree that this guy is a con artists and a A****le. I want to say more about him but this is a family board.

He conned the UN into giving him the deeds and he is cooning people into something that they can't own.

He is in the same league as the International star registry. They sell peaople the option to name a star after their loved one. Dumb and useless unless you want a cute and funny valentines day gift.

I was watching him and what made me madder is that Connan was giving him free press and advertising. He was treating this guy like he truthfully did own the planets.

What is sad is that this guy will probobly get away with it untill we can actually go to those places. Then we will colonize them and care less who owns it. He just want's a cheap buck.


P.S. Leno is better than Connan. Connan makes fun of himself and his show too much. But then again who can beat a show that has a bear who really loves himself? [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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"Watch out for falling coconuts!".
"It takes Thousands to fight a battle for a mile, Millions to hold an election for a nation, but it only takes One to change the world." - Dan Sandler 2002

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: g99 on 2003-03-07 03:13 ]</font>

steiny, welcome to the board. You can always edit your postings, just look at the icons below your message.
On your subject: The whole thing is BS and I'm sure, the guys who sell this stuff can always produce the explanation that you pay for a nice piece of paper and not for real estate if you drag them to court.
The point is, as no authority can have authority over celestial bodies, if you think you have property on the moon there is no place you can go if you need legal help to defend your "property" from others.

It's like the "buy a star" business. They say you can name a star, but htis name will never be officially aproved by the IAU. And again, you just pay for some leass or more nice document.

Some time ago, IIRC, in the Netherlands some guy was fined for selling pieces of the moon. But not, because he did, but because he even didn't deliver some nice document.

Harald

kucharek,
But according to the guy on Connan, he actually went throught the UN and got a signed document saying that he owns the moons and planets in the solar system. I don't know how true this is, but he sounds like he did it.

If he did i think the UN has much bigger problems and you know what right now. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Added this: Steiny: You can use html in your posts if you make sure the diable html box is unchecked. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: g99 on 2003-03-07 03:16 ]</font>

I don't think the UN has authority to do such a thing. AFAIK, he sent a letter to the UN asking them if the UN has anything against it if he is going to sell property on the Moon and received some answer, maybe that the UN doesn't care about him. The exact formulations of these letters would be nice to know. He gave that answer a twist as if it is an official permit of the UN, but I guess, the letter wasnt signed by the Secretary General, but by some secretary...

Harald

Here's a previous thread on this lowlife scum, including a discussion on the basis of his claim. Simply put, it's an out and out fraud.

http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/vi...c=3139&forum=1

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...And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped. --Sir Bedevere

Here are two more links from the main Lunar Republic site. If you'll notice, it's long on rhetoric and short on actual legalities.

http://www.lunarregistry.com/info/faq.shtml
http://www.lunarregistry.com/info/legal.shtml

The second link especially boils my blood. Not only do they never actually state how they became legally entitled to control the Moon, but they paint it as if they are doing the world a public service by taking over administration.

The words that spring to mind as I read this sibrel would get me banned from this forum. I gotta go cool off now.

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...And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped. --Sir Bedevere

Well, me, I'm going to auction the moon off. And I'll start the bidding at - 50 cents.

fity, fifty, fifty, fifty, fifty, do I have a taker?

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Behind every conspiracy is another conspiracy.

Hey, that is what all colonialists, imperialists and other -ists do or did. That's part of the game. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]

Harald

The sad thing is that this guy will probably make lots of money. Why didn't I think of it first?

How does one tell who legitimately owns a piece of land here on earth? You could have a deed to it, but I could write myself up a deed to anything I liked. You could say your claim is recognized by the government, but I could organize my own government to recognize my claim. You could say it's because you bought it, but that leaves the problem of deciding how the person you bought it from came to own it. The same for inheriting it. You could say that the first one there gets it, but America was already inhabited when the Europeans started claiming it. And why should it be the first one there that gets it? That discriminates against people who weren't born yet.

If you trace the ownership back far enough you'll eventually come to someone who arbitrarily claimed it, or perhaps claimed it for his country. Since this applies to every piece of land that currently has an owner there's enormous precedence for ownership of property by simply declaring that it's yours.

Why doesn't this apply to lunar real estate? A bunch of countries can agree that no one owns it, but do they have that authority? The inhabitants of Europa might disagree. In order to tell someone that he doesn't own something you have to arbitrarily claim some authority over it yourself.

Of couse, that still means that it's silly to pay someone for lunar real estate when you can claim it for free and have just as much right to declare ownership.

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Life is like a box of chocolates. All of your choices are bad for you.

Land isn't yours until you can occupy it and defend it. All they can do about the stars and planets is declare names. There is no substance to any of it.

It's about as meaningful as MyJeansInc buying rights to saying they are the "official pants of the Nude Olympics"

I was thinking the same thing: I'll concede a claim to private ownership on the Moon when someone is actually standing on the land they're claiming, not before then.

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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

Well, that still seems rather arbitrary. If a street gang breaks into someone's house when no one is home and defends it, does that make it theirs? If you mean defend it successfully then it's might makes right and no other opinion means very much.

Is it illegal to claim ownership of something that you can't possibly stand on nor defend?

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Life is like a box of chocolates. All of your choices are bad for you.

There are different methods of securing property. It depends on what's necessary to have effective control over the land. In an uncontrolled or lawless area, then might makes right. You keep it because you can keep it. But in more civilized areas, the defense of your property defaults to the government. You don't defend it yourself, you get the community to agree to your claims and defend it for you. That's why the biker gang example wouldn't work. They aren't as strong as the government backing you up.

As far as I can see, Hope doesn't have either of these things, though he's trying to claim the latter. He has no real control over the Moon whatsoever, and no backing by any governing bodies, just a few bureaucratic tricks to make it seem more legitimate.

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...And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped. --Sir Bedevere

<font size="-1">(fixed a few spelling errors)</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David Hall on 2003-03-07 13:05 ]</font>

First off, I thank you all for the warm welcome. From what I gathered from the interview is this guy basically just sent a letter to the UN and the US and Russian governments stating his claim to the Moon. I don't think he actually said that he recieved I reply. It seems to me that the UN and these governments just wrote this guy off as an idiot who didn't deserve a reply. He assumed that no reply meant the Moon was his.


I agree with Chuck when he questions how we can own land here on our own Earth, and I believe in principle he is right. Any of us only own our land because people, a government, recognize that we do. Sure a street gange or whatever could come and take over my house, but no one, no government (God willing), is going to recognize their claim to it and will probably aid in the ejection of that force and the reinstatment of the previous ownership.

No goevernment (as far as I know) recognizes this guys claim to the Moon. And I'm sure if we took a poll of the people across the earth, we'd find that most of them don't recognize this guys claim, but I still think it is excedingly sad that there are people out there lineing this guys pockets with money.

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"Real astronomers use kilometers. Hardcore astronomers use centimeters."
- One of the best Phil Plait quotes of all time

I considered my constraint to be necessary but not sufficient: there's no point in talking about ownership of the Moon until ownership means you can do something about it. But so far as I'm concerned, if some corporation or organization is visionary enough to get to the Moon and start exploiting it, more power (and property) to them. However, I have a prior claim on my house, so I'd expect them to leave it alone.

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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

can you actually claim ownership of land (other than through a transaction with a properties previous owner) without stepping foot on it? cause what this guy is basically claiming is squatters rights, and I can't see how you can claim that if you haven't squated in the first place.

at any rate, it goes against every accepted concept of land ownership to lay claim to an unclaimed plot without ever having been there.

but even if his claim does hold, twenty bucks and acre is way too expensive. land value must be adjusted for remoteness and ease of access. I can't think of anything more remote or hard to access than the moon, and therefore its true value when and if we decide to colonize or mine it would likely end up being amongst the cheapest per acre peices of land a person could buy. the only way a $20 per acre price tage could even be worth it would be if the thing were fifty percent gold! what I'm saying is, an acre of moon land is a fine gag gift or conversation piece, but if you buy it as an investment, prepare to take a bath!

I would realte this to someone buying up a bunch of domain names for companies and things like major didaters to seel them off to those who want them.

A good example is of the latests columbia Disaster. After the disaster i went on e-bay and found people selling 4 differeent columbia domain names for $1,000 each. Just a version of internet squatting.

Look at all of the hoplah over Bartsibrel.com.

This same the same thing. Eventually people will wise up and this guy will loose interest. When countries actualy go to the planets they will settle where they want and overrule this guys poor documantation and faulty claims.

P. T. Barnum would of loved this guy.

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GIYUL :-)
"It takes Thousands to fight a battle for a mile, Millions to hold an election for a nation, but it only takes One to change the world." - Dan Sandler 2002

Last year, this same guy was in my town (Moncton, NB) selling pieces of the moon at the local mall. He even got some air time on one of the local radio stations, where he "proved" that what he was doing was legit.

I was so angry at him, I just wanted to call the station and give him a piece of my mind. Of course, I shut up because he would have won the arguement. I wished I had thought of what was mentioned earlier: if no government can have a claim in space, how can their court systems give a verdict over what is and isn't legit up there?

(Edited to fix the smilie thingie)
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Isn't the fact that they don't visit us proof that intelligent life is out there?

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Shade on 2003-03-07 19:32 ]</font>

No takers? Ok, how about 20 cents? Twenty twenty twenty, oh come on ladies and gentlemen, this "moon" is a prime piece of real estate - granted it isn't much to look at right now (it looks a bit cheesy) and it doesn't have much of an atmosphere but it has great potential. Use your imagination. Think of how it could be! Come on! Twenty cents. That's all to start the bidding. Anybody?

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Behind every conspiracy is another conspiracy.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Rusty Lander on 2003-03-07 19:33 ]</font>

I'll take 300 acres of mars. Northern hemisphere. For 300 zeta bucks. A buck a acre for something i will never step on is not bad.

Oh and the 300 acres encompass 10 acres surrounding each of our mars landers and the rest in one centralized area between them.

The cost for visiting each lander will be 10 zeta bucks.

P.S. Zeta bucks are a new currency i am formulating. So when the zetas finally come in a month or so we will have something to spend as a gloriopus slave planet for their gold mines. Hail Nancy! [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

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GIYUL :-)
"It takes Thousands to fight a battle for a mile, Millions to hold an election for a nation, but it only takes One to change the world." - Dan Sandler 2002

A fool is born every second.

These folks buy anything you sell them, just for fun. Btw, do they really know where is the Moon? And I doubt an ex-president of the USA would be so incautious to get in contact with this riff-raff.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Argos on 2003-03-07 21:03 ]</font>

But he never said what kind of presidents bought the land. They could of been self proclaimed or presidents of comapnies.

I do doubt that the remaining living presidents would of bought that. Many of them have a above average intelegence and should of seen throught this junk.

Is Nancy selling acerage on Nibiru yet? [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]

Or Zeta Reticuli for that matter...

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"Ignorance has caused more calamity than malignity" H.G. Wells

"Getting lost is part of exploring." Uniqua in "Backyardigans-Heart of the Jungle"

"Trying to wrap my head around creationist astronomy is like trying to ride a unicycle around a Moebius strip: it’s off-balance, physically impossible, full of one-sided arguments, and in the end you don’t go anywhere." Phil Plait

reagan was never too bright, and was something of a closet UFO buff.

carter is idealistic enough to appreciate the fantasy aspect of such a thing.

bush sr. is pretty shrewd with his cash, and thusly might have bought some land with the intention of claiming a residence there for tax purposes.

ford has a rep for clumsiness, and so he might just want to insure against falling off the planet and accidentily trespassing on someone elses plot.

clinton probably just wanted to impress a chick.

And Bush Jr. wants to drill for oil on the moon. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

nah, he want's to wage war against the man in the moon cause he saw an old film where he had what appeared to be a large weapon of mass destruction hidden in his eye.

Hmmm..You might have something there. Anyone know the adress for the UN? I think we should all send letters to own Nibiru and pretend to sell land on it.

If this guy can own planets why can't we own something that does not exhist? Now of course i can't in good concience sell it to somebody, but just saying that we own it would be fun.

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GIYUL :-)
"It takes Thousands to fight a battle for a mile, Millions to hold an election for a nation, but it only takes One to change the world." - Dan Sandler 2002