Big Bang seems wrong, computers to blame

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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

That is real easy to hear wrong, it gives fodder to anti-BB types for no good reason. First of all, inadequate computers may be a reason that accurate simulations are currently impossible, but it's not the reason for the headline-- it's not the reason that current computer simulations give inconsistent results. That can't be the computers' fault, it must be the fault of the human-designed simulations. So the real question is, what are the simplifying assumptions in place to make those simulations feasible, and what is wrong with those assumptions?

It does seem unfair.

This sounds a lot like weather. Do the weather models predict your rain chances accurately a week from now? Can they predict last weeks weather accurately? How about a million years ago?

Solar system models aren't so easy either.

If these aren't so easy, no reason to be hard on BBT number crunching.

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

Do the weather models predict your rain chances accurately a week from now?

They have trouble getting it right for tomorrow

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Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

Oh, you just know the woo-woo's are going to run with this!

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In your rush to call everyone "entrenched" or closed-minded or "limited" you fail to note that the "limit" here has a very natural boundary: that point at which the evidence stops. - JayUtah

Science fiction was never meant to be an educational tool. - Editor Amazing Tales

Can anyone show me the phrase that actually says "Wrong"? All I see is indications of not accurate ENOUGH. Limitations.

But does that mean "wrong"? I think in the context of a theory it's not. It's a step.

If I want to measure the thickness of my brake pad, my ruler is not "Wrong" (although it's not the right tool) It's just not accurate enough. But; It still gets me somewhere... I measure it at 3mm when it's actually 2.9mm. Am I wrong? It depends on why I need the measure.

How would anyone be able to simulate anything that is 96 percent unknown?

With 96 educated guesses. It may be unkown, but the theories for the 96% are there. And if those guesses are right, then the simulation should match the real world.

Yes, but the issue is confidence. We have great confidence in how brakes work, but many could become more dubious about BB Theroy - "its just another theory and, now, one without a working computer model" may be their cry. Its a credibility issue.

They will ignore the wonderful concordance discovered for BBT and ignore the difficulty involved in producing a computer model for the entire universe. They do, however, know about the weather and our limitations to model it.

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

But; does that mean it's "wrong" or just not yet working. I guess I'm stuck on the word itself.

Yes, good point. If they don't get past the title, then some will claim it must be "wrong" based on advance computer calculations.

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

This whole issue speaks to what is the purpose of a simulation. Observations generate the need for a theory to explain them. The theory comes along, and simulations try to check the full ramifications of the theory. When the simulations are difficult, it is not at all uncommon for the simulations to fail to completely link the theory to the observations. Sometimes it means the theory is missing a key element, other times it means the simulations are not reliable. Supernova simulations were carried out for a very long time before they could actually get stars to supernova, and still have problems with it, but no one says that the theory that massive stars go supernova is "wrong". It just means that there must be some aspect of what is happening that is not properly accounted for in the simulations, either because of numerical problems or due to improper simplifying assumptions. It's not unusual.

I've about given up on popular science magazines. The quality of writing has just become too poor to bother with them.

The computers can't get the BB quite right. I wonder how long before the creationists jump on this?

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I'm not a scientist, but I play one on the internet.
http://www.rrac.org

Strike-five for the BB theory...or is anyone even counting anymore?

So, it has a few strikes against it. But it still has a pretty good batting average.

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I'm not a scientist, but I play one on the internet.
http://www.rrac.org

Very true, it just means that simulations should never be mistaken for physical reality; even if the results are "right" it doen't mean the theory is neccesarily true or correct.

Cheers.

I believe we are inside a body,not a universe as suggested.If this is the case,is it possible dark matter is actually the rest of the internal systems we cant see because we are so microscopic?

No.

Well, there was that couch gag on "The Simpson's" a couple of seasons ago. The camera pulls back to reveal that the universe is just a strand of DNA in one of the few hairs on the head of a giant Homer in another universe.

One of my favorite couch gags, but I don't believe it became a leading theory.

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I'm not a scientist, but I play one on the internet.
http://www.rrac.org

Yeah. Look here, but this has been relegated to "against the mainstream" status.
http://www.angelfire.com/az/BIGBANGisWRONG/index.html

My brother is a weatherman on Channel 4 in Washington DC. He often gets to interview scientists and astronauts, etc. He once asked Carl Sagan about the Compton effect being the cause of the cosmological red shift. Carl's response was: "That would change EVERYTHING!"
That's why it's not mainstream.

Can you come up with a single shred of evidence that supports the view that ideas that "change everything" are automatically resisted by the scientific community? I would like you to consider this list of ideas that "changed everything" that mainstream scientists were by far the first to accept:
-relativity
-quantum mechanics
-expanding universe
-second law of thermodynamics
-Newton's laws
-the uncertainty principle
-Goedel's theorem
...etc. Get the idea?

OK I recant. (or not)

ok,so if 90 per cent of the universe is missing,do you think the 90 per cent has already gone through massive black holes,and we are still with the 10 per cent that is left on this side of the anomoli?

What a highly misleading headline. *puke*

Yeah, we're in the top of the third, BBT's got a few runs on the board, and the ABBT team's still swinging at air.

I can't tell you exactly how many runs, mind you, what with scoring being done by a guy named Heisenberg. Something about the act of observing the scoreboard nullifying the result.

We're still working on this...

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The last time I felt a warm fuzzy feeling, I was informed by my doctor that it was just gas.

Relativity? That was in the air (eg. Poincare and others) and so Einstein's ideas were not that novel.

Quantum mechanics? Yeah that was a change everything moment. So much so that many of the old guard just could not make the leap (eg. Einstein himself by then).

Expanding universe? Yup another one, Hubble himself didn't really believe his own eyes on this and continued to look (behind the scenes) for other explanations.

etc. etc.

Well, it was novel in that Einstein was willing to get rid of the aether.

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Some try to tell me, thoughts they cannot defend,... - Moody Blues.

Neptune- The original Dark Matter.

The author feels that this technique of deliberately lying will actually make it easier for you to learn the ideas. - Donald Knuth

So you're claiming that mainstream scientists were not the first to accept these new ideas? Perhaps you think someone else accepted them first, and mainstream scientists came around later? Not. All you are saying is that revolutionary new ideas are hard to accept. News flash: we know that.

And welcome to the forum!