Hi guys.......I was wondering, what's all this with 2012 and the end of the Mayan calender? Is something gonna happen during this time? Is any of this solstice stuff possible?

Is that why the "X-files" finale has 2012 as the day of invasion or something like that?

Here is a remarkable article on the significance of Dec. 21 2012 to the Mayan calendar system. Well written and appears to be well researched.

Oops post edited to add link. Thanks for pointing that out. ops:

http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html

Er...where? :-?

Interesting link, dgruss23. But, does this affect human life on earth.

what do you mean?

I can't imagine why. Celestial alignments of objects at large distances from the Earth (stars, Milky Way etc.) have never been scientifically shown to directly affect life on Earth. Planetary alignments happen all the time with no devastating effects to life on Earth. This Mayan alignment is fascinating, but there is no science to back up the idea that it will have any effects on the Earth.

But if you want a different view I did come across this link which does a nice job of explaining the point of view of the people that think something may result from the alignment:

http://www.survive2012.com/why2012.html

From the dgruss23's link above:

"Popular for the millennia prior to the 1830s, is the more obvious idea of catastrophism. Unfortunately it has been discounted by modern scientific techniques, which require processes to be recreated in a laboratory, or at least viewed in nature within a recent timeframe. The art of making educated guesses based on the physical remnants of ancient disasters is no longer acceptable."

Seems when science doesn't find the evidence to support claims, the believer of those claims rationalizes that the science is old, rigid, unwilling to look at the discoveries the believer thinks he/she has looked at. "Viewed in nature within a recent timeframe"? Does that mean more than 5 billion years ago? Certainly this guy isn't counting the theory of how the Moon hit the Earth, several known mass extinctions, recurrent ice ages, supervolcanoes, or asteroid impacts. The fact that the evidence shows pole reversals to be benign must just be that scientists are unwilling to 'believe'.

The myth of the Mayan calendar showing the world is re-created every 400 and how many or so years is one of those supposed 'real' things because the Mayan society was devastated by the European invasion about the same time as the predicted event.

But think about it. The world was not destroyed and recreated. Only the Mayan society. There is no evidence it happened 400 and however many years before Cortez or 400 and however many years before that. It's an interesting story but it does not hold up to scrutney.

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Just a tiny nit-picking pet peeve- The mayan calander does NOT end in 2012. It just rolls over. Sure, the long count comes to an end, and the mayans believed many bad things might happen, BUT on December 22, 2012 a new long count begins. It's very similar to what happened in 2000 in the gegorian calander (in more ways then one)

2012 is shaping up to be the next big end of the world (non) event. ::sigh::

And the bad news is we have 9 long years to listen to horse manure from people selling books, videos, blah blah blah ::double sigh::

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"Ignorance has caused more calamity than malignity" H.G. Wells

"Getting lost is part of exploring." Uniqua in "Backyardigans-Heart of the Jungle"

"Trying to wrap my head around creationist astronomy is like trying to ride a unicycle around a Moebius strip: it’s off-balance, physically impossible, full of one-sided arguments, and in the end you don’t go anywhere." Phil Plait

Thanks Rift! I was wondering about that. It seems logical that the calendar would roll over, but the sources I found we not really discussing that (unless I missed it). Its a pretty remarkable calendar.

Oh man, I get the feeling we're going to be hearing from '2012 Doomsayers' for the next nine years It doesn't help that the Mayan's picture-writings leaves itself open to gross misinterpretation by those looking for impending doom.

Maybe we should get a jump on this right now. Does anyone live near a university with a Mayan archaelolgy department? Maybe we can ask a professor to give us a brief FAQ about 2012 to use in debunking the doomsayers that shall inevitably appear soon.

I do. The next time i get a chance i will e-mail him.

DR. MICHAEL E. MOSELEY

He is more andean, but has done study there and would know who to ask for it.

BA: Do i have your permission to ask him to come on here and give a brief FAQ or have him give me one and to post it here if he says yes?
He might not say yes and just say "I do not have time right now" but it could not hurt trying.

Thanks g99, I hope it works out. I'd do it myself but unfortunately I don't live anywhere near a university and I don't know any archaeology students/professors, let alone ones that study the Mayan.

It's an amazing Calendar.

One point that the 2012 people seem to leave out is that the longest unit of time in the mayan calendar (and I believe the longest unit of time in ANY calendar) is some 60 million years long, the alautun. Why have a unit of time that long if you thought the universe was gonna end in 2012???

Another thing they forget is that the mayans, and the aztecs, thought that all kinds of horrible things would happen, and the universe might end every 52 years unless certain rites were performed. Those rites haven't been performed for 500 years and we are still here...

__________________
"Ignorance has caused more calamity than malignity" H.G. Wells

"Getting lost is part of exploring." Uniqua in "Backyardigans-Heart of the Jungle"

"Trying to wrap my head around creationist astronomy is like trying to ride a unicycle around a Moebius strip: it’s off-balance, physically impossible, full of one-sided arguments, and in the end you don’t go anywhere." Phil Plait

I read the first article...and while I am impressed at the research and ingenuity of the Mayans, I do not think this heralds the end of the world.

As Rift pointed out, the calendar rolls over, not ends.

And besides, if there were any cataclysm that would strike the Mayans, it would be localised within their region.

The doomsayers of 2012 can rant and rave of what they want, but we ain't dead yet from mythological disasters.

Perhaps on the solstice of 2012, I'll look outside and watch the skies, but without a hardhat.

~Josh

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Are you sure? Take a visit to Cancun or any other part of the old Mayan territory, and you'll see plenty of people around who look just like their distant ancestors. They may have been keeping their traditions alive!
:wink:

I can't see how the Mayan calendar's rollover, or whatever the correct term, has any more astronomical significance than any other artificially imposed calendar, ie: the calendar we use. Predictions of doom and I2K panics were based on nothing more than the count of years reaching 2000, and since 2000 wasn't even the end of the millenium... The Mayan calendar appears to me to be the same--man imposes an artificial count on the passage of the astronomical year, but should not expect the cosmos to pay any attention.

You must have the same overland express provider that I do--a mule train stops by every Saturday to collect the emails.
There's no restriction on who can post here. I think even anthropologists would be greeted warmly, just so long as they don't spend all the time on Chariots of the Gods.

I'm pretty sure they don't cut people's hearts out and throw the body down the stairs of the temple anymore. :P

Although you bring up a point that should be remembered, the descendents of the Mayan (especially in remote regions) still keep a lot of the old traditions alive, they are usually an interesting mishmash of mayan and catholic beliefs.

The universe ending in 2012 is still hogwash though :P

__________________
"Ignorance has caused more calamity than malignity" H.G. Wells

"Getting lost is part of exploring." Uniqua in "Backyardigans-Heart of the Jungle"

"Trying to wrap my head around creationist astronomy is like trying to ride a unicycle around a Moebius strip: it’s off-balance, physically impossible, full of one-sided arguments, and in the end you don’t go anywhere." Phil Plait

I once read that when we were first using computers for astronomy calculations, for calculating solstices and equinoxes, etc, that we checked their data with ancient Mayan calculations to check the computers accuracy! Anyone know if that is true?

I'm sure glad I live in the age of the calculator. [/code]

Hi,

I'm the guy from the Survive 2012 website, which is linked to earlier in this discussion.

Just thought I'd let you know that I'm not a doomsday nut. As 2012 approaches there will be a lot of the millennial madness of a few years ago, but hopefully I will be dismissing it rather than fueling it.

All I believe is that a global cataclysm will happen one day. Maybe tomorrow, maybe in 10,000 years, but one day it will. And nobody has prepared for it, and I doubt many ever will. My concern is the survival of the human species, in its current form. I like us!

The 2012 date is the last old doomsday date left. If any ancient prediction is ever to come true, the Mayans and 2012 is the last chance. For me it's a great way fo bringing my concerns for the safety of out species to a wider audience.

I severely doubt anything will happen in Dec 2012. But of all the random dates in our future, with everything else being equal, it stands out as the strongest possibility for the "when" question, and I'll be in a safe spot, just in case, come that time.

Rob Bast
Melbourne, Australia

Welcome Bast!! I am glad that you are not taking it too seriously. I applaudd that. :-) I believe something will happen to a section of the human race. Like Mt Renier going up in a massive explosion and everyone in washington having a very long winter. But unless there is a very large volcanic event of a large asteroid or comet coming for us i doubt we or any of the next few generations will see anything.

10,000 years maybe. There are long term asteroids and comets we have not seen yet. Jupirter might knock something out of its orbit into us. But a cataclysm in 2012 is unlikely to me. The most i can see is a massive volcanic event.

I do have a question: What can we do in the event of a massive cataclysmic event?

1) Sit down.
2) Relax.
3) Take a deep breath.
4) Let it out.
5) Bend over.
6) Put your head between your knees.
7) Kiss your @$$ goodbye! :roll: 8)

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bast, have you ever read the book Deliverance (from which the John Voight/Burt Reynolds/Ronny Cox/Ned Beatty movie was made), by James Dickey? James Dickey was Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress (now Poet Laureate of the United States) 1966-1968, and his novel Deliverance was about a survivalist that had similar ideals to yours, if I recall correctly. He has an epiphany in the book, after their canoe trip.

While I understand your approach, and think you're free to take it, I disagree with using fear tactics and the Mayan calendar (or Planet X, or Hale-Bopp) to encourage others to join the movement.

Couple things. First, maybe BA oughtta think about starting up a 2012 section of the forum, it's gonna get pretty hot soon.

Second,
Is this true? No more Nostradamus dates? No more ancient-civilization-predicted-this-date scares? I know that in 2038 UNIX is suppose to rollover but the common person probably doesn't even know what UNIX is, much less to worry about it. Are we left with just the occasional comet or planet Y? Of course there's the ever present religious aramgeddons but they don't have exact dates.

Sorry if this hijacked the thread, but that bugged me for some reason. Gotta have dates to know when to watch for the next mass hysteria.

Or, he could just rename the Planet X one in June.

It bugged me too.

I'm sure there's plenty left. (that's a good thing?)

I know the Edgar Cayce nuts bring up one every once and a while... Something that vaugely has to do with atlantis rising and a "store room" full of wonderfull gagets being found under the paw of the sphinx in 1999. lol.

__________________
"Ignorance has caused more calamity than malignity" H.G. Wells

"Getting lost is part of exploring." Uniqua in "Backyardigans-Heart of the Jungle"

"Trying to wrap my head around creationist astronomy is like trying to ride a unicycle around a Moebius strip: it’s off-balance, physically impossible, full of one-sided arguments, and in the end you don’t go anywhere." Phil Plait

Something to do with...
http://www.atlantisrising.com/issue4/ar4hallrec.html

AHHAAHAH classic, good ol Chariot of the gods

My favourite part was when the narrator was explaining how peice of evidence was proof that a alien spaceship visited earth thousands of years ago.
He finished his statement with: "of course there are other explanations..."

The film then immediatly cut to the next scene

Oh, I'm sure someone will come up with either something new or the spectacular, "Lo and behold! We miscalculated the dates!!!!!! The end of the world will actually be 20xx!"

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"As I lay beneath the Southern Cross, the stars tell more than I could" . . . David Meece