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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaohua2000 View Post
I wonder how will people call Pluto?

Pluto -> 129437 Pluto?
Charon -> (129437) Pluto I Charon
Nix -> (129437) Pluto II Nix
Hydra -> (129437) Pluto III Hydra
What they should do is refer to Pluto as "Yuggoth" as the Mi-Go of the Cthulhu Universe do and call the bodies of it's size as "Plutons"
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by homo_cosmosicus View Post
Reina, have you been to Hayden planetarium, in American Museum of Natural History,
that one on the 72nd street west side Manhattan?
They have only 8 planets there for a long time, no Pluto, very smart people work there...
I'll be there in few weeks, and for sure will visit planetarium again!

Hayden Planetarium:
http://haydenplanetarium.org/

bu the way, here is scientific proof for only 8 planets in Solar system,
big work, 22 pages, but worth reading:

"What is a Planet?" (by Steven Soter, works at above mentioned place)
http://arxiv.org/ftp/astro-ph/papers/0608/0608359.pdf

I have yet to visit the Hayden planetarium, but I do know that there are only 8 planets. I also know that there was controversy surrounding the construction of them, since the only the 8 were included. I believe it was Mr. Soter who only wanted the 8 instead of the 9 and was therefore, dubbed a pluto hater. I stand by his position though, that there are only 8 planets. Guess he was right.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by homo_cosmosicus View Post
I can't say "New Horizons" is total waste of money since it will return new scientific information,
but that money could be very well invested into more imporatant scientific projects,
especially after we learned that bigger KBOs then Pluto exist out there.
Are you kidding? Pluto/Charon is a double dwarf planet with two other satellites (at least). Getting a good look at how these bodies interact may give us additional (empirical) insight on how planetary systems might work around binary stars.

That's in addition to it being the closest of the KBOs. It's worth taking a good long look at Pluto/Charon.
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Last edited by Moose; 24-August-2006 at 07:28 PM. Reason: Edit to correct the number of satellites around Pluto/Charon.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 07:29 PM
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Pluto has 3 moons.

Last night I had a dream that they found two more (what's this fixation with Pluto's moons? I already had a dream just before Nyx and Hydra were confirmed in which they turned up not to be real!)
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 07:30 PM
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Pluto's one of the coolest (no pun intended) objects in the Solar System, definitely worth visiting. Were it a dwarf planet or not.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 07:45 PM
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Last edited by Dubb; 09-November-2007 at 02:39 AM.
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubb
shouldn't Ceres or small bodies within the belt past Mars, and before Jupiter be called a 'trans-martian objects'?
You could, but why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubb
Also, anyone have a short answer as to why the 8 planets are on the same plane?
Yes, the protoplanetary disk from which planets formed was, well, a disk. Rotating clouds of gas tend to collapse into disks. Individual molecules orbit in random orbits. Molecules coming from above the plane collide with molecules coming from below and canceling the horizontal velocity component.
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 08:51 PM
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This was the right decision. It was a mistake calling Pluto a planet to begin with. So, Pluto gets demoted to dwalf planet status. Ceres gets promoted to dwalf planet. I sure do hope that Dawn is not cancelled at the last moment. It will be nice getting back information on both of these bodies. I think that Ceres and Pluto will both be very interesting. Ceres especially could have some surprises for us, as most people expect to find only a mundane rock.
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 08:56 PM
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I'll just close my involvement here with this.

What we've been given is not a definition of planet. The pure, undenied motivation here was to demote Pluto. The problem with the definition is that it cannot be used on any system of orbital bodies OTHER than the one around the Sun. It is a purpose built artifact to justify a desired eight planet arrangement in the Solar System, it does not, in any way shape or form, help with the future categorization and cataloguing of substellar orbital bodies EXCEPT in this star system.

Its a manufactured explanation for a result that was decided before the debate even began. My congratulations to the IAU for successfully executing a bowel movement on science in broad daylight and garnering applause for it.
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 09:01 PM
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When Dawn is mentioned, why everyone start talking about Ceres!? Vesta is far more interesting.
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 09:05 PM
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As they said at the IAU meeting, there is no point to create a definition for an extrasolar planet--there's no doubt many surprises waiting for us, and any definition would soon have to be changed.

And yes, the primary motive for the definition was clarification of Pluto's status, a problematic issues that has plagued astronomy for decades. It is now corrected. I don't see any problem in that. Yes, the definition should have been better, but let's be glad we have one.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argos View Post
Doodler:Ah, ah, ah! A planet is an object orbiting the Sun, so sayeth the definition.

I´m baffled by the awkwardness of this entire episode. IAU has found a way to displease everybody. I think we should forget all this and start over.
I agree, let's clear all the planets and other objects out of the solar system and rebuild so that it matches our definitions.
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Doodler View Post
I'll just close my involvement here with this.

What we've been given is not a definition of planet. The pure, undenied motivation here was to demote Pluto. The problem with the definition is that it cannot be used on any system of orbital bodies OTHER than the one around the Sun. It is a purpose built artifact to justify a desired eight planet arrangement in the Solar System, it does not, in any way shape or form, help with the future categorization and cataloguing of substellar orbital bodies EXCEPT in this star system.

Its a manufactured explanation for a result that was decided before the debate even began. My congratulations to the IAU for successfully executing a bowel movement on science in broad daylight and garnering applause for it.
So, wording of the document itself aside, do you think Pluto should be considered a planet?
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 10:18 PM
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So, wording of the document itself aside, do you think Pluto should be considered a planet?
Yes. It meets sufficient physical criteria to qualify as a planet.
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 10:29 PM
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So is it true that the pluto-haters are making t-shirts that say "If you don't like the new definition of a planet you can kiss my big fat hairy astronomer"?

I'm waiting for a US congressman to submit a bill to restore Pluto to planethood. This might be one political intrusion into science I could get behind.
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 10:49 PM
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So is it true that the pluto-haters are making t-shirts that say "If you don't like the new definition of a planet you can kiss my big fat hairy astronomer"?

I'm waiting for a US congressman to submit a bill to restore Pluto to planethood. This might be one political intrusion into science I could get behind.
Nah, lets keep the lawyers and failed lawyers out of it. Too much litigation has to do with amusing the judge, rather than anything to do with true factual discovery.

Whatever the definition is or ends up being, its got to be something that can be applied anywhere, anywhen to any object that meets the criterion.

Slamming on Pluto because its a KBO and not a rocky terrestrial is like slamming iron and carbon fusing stars because they're clearly not like the vast majority of hydrogen/helium stars. Saying Ceres isn't a planet would be like saying a red dwarf isn't a star, even though its structurally identical to a yellow dwarf or white subgiant, because its too small.

Ridiculous. Its like relativity only applies when its convenient.
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 10:55 PM
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NOOO!!! pluto should have remained a planet. it is should remain just for the common society and general ethics. ill miss u pluot
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 10:56 PM
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Just wait until an Earth-sized object is found in the outer reaches. Wait nevermind, that'd be a dwarf planet.

This definition won't last. It's better than 9 planets, but there are some flaws that will stick out like a sore thumb as we gain insight on other stellar systems (and our own).
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 24-August-2006, 10:56 PM
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Whatever the definition is or ends up being, its got to be something that can be applied anywhere, anywhen to any object that meets the criterion.
Good point... Does this mean that the IAU has effectively ruled that the rest of the universe doesn't exist?

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Originally Posted by Doodler View Post
Slamming on Pluto because its a KBO and not a rocky terrestrial is like slamming iron and carbon fusing stars because they're clearly not like the vast majority of hydrogen/helium stars. Saying Ceres isn't a planet would be like saying a red dwarf isn't a star, even though its structurally identical to a yellow dwarf or white subgiant, because its too small.

Ridiculous. Its like relativity only applies when its convenient.
I guess racism extends to inanimate objects too.
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