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Old 30-November-2006, 06:17 AM
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Thumbs up Ancient Moon "computer" Revisited

As reported on the BBC

Quote:
The delicate workings at the heart of a 2,000-year-old analogue computer have been revealed by scientists.

The Antikythera Mechanism, discovered more than 100 years ago in a Roman shipwreck, was used by ancient Greeks to display astronomical cycles.

Using advanced imaging techniques, an Anglo-Greek team probed the remaining fragments of the complex geared device.

The results, published in the journal Nature, show it could have been used to predict solar and lunar eclipses.
If they can recreate one of those artifects and get it to work, how long before they will be commercially available.

It would be great for teaching science and the history of science
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Old 30-November-2006, 06:25 AM
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See also: topic The Antikythera Mechanism, hiding in the ATM forum for mysterious reasons.
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Old 30-November-2006, 10:41 PM
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What an amazing find! Such intricacy in design. Pretty damn advanced gearing system. Why on earth did such technology get lost for ~1000 years?
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Old 01-December-2006, 05:15 AM
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Thats the same thing thats been uncovered since the 60's...wtf?

It's a damn stoneage atari console system cant u see?, where all the bear skin is rubbed off...no doubt... >:
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Old 01-December-2006, 05:12 PM
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Why on earth did such technology get lost for ~1000 years?
Dark Ages?
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Old 01-December-2006, 09:08 PM
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Dark Ages?
Probably.

Humans.

Although... Maybe this was the only one ever made, and it was in the shipwreck along with the person who built it, on the way to wherever to show it to someone important.
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Old 02-December-2006, 12:35 AM
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the way i understand it, a lot of high-tech stuff got "lost" when the Roman empire fell apart.
not that i think they had flying cars that ran off energy efficient nuclear fusion reactors or anything like that- but there is probably a lot of cool stuff that they had that is yet to be discovered or will never be discovered.
which brings up the question..
what if our modern civilization suddenly broke apart for some reason- how long would it take to get back to a similar level of advancement, and what cool stuff that we have now would be lost forever? and how would the people that discovered some of this stuff interpret it 2 or 3 milennia from now when some farmer stumbles across it in his field..
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Old 02-December-2006, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
The results, published in the journal Nature, show it could have been used to predict solar and lunar eclipses.
By the way, this kind of slipped through-- I hardly think it could be used to predict solar eclipses, at least not that could be observed. It's very hard to predict where on Earth a solar eclipse will be visible, and I really don't think a bunch of gears can do it.
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Old 02-December-2006, 05:07 AM
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By the way, this kind of slipped through-- I hardly think it could be used to predict solar eclipses, at least not that could be observed. It's very hard to predict where on Earth a solar eclipse will be visible, and I really don't think a bunch of gears can do it.
At that time they were probably satisfied with the probability of a solar eclipse on such and such a day, as the Chinese were with their calendrical calculations. After all, it takes time to get a bunch of people together to pound the drums and scare the dragon away!
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Old 02-December-2006, 05:10 AM
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<<By the way, this kind of slipped through-- I hardly think it could be used to predict solar eclipses, at least not that could be observed. It's very hard to predict where on Earth a solar eclipse will be visible, and I really don't think a bunch of gears can do it.>>

To second the above post, it wouldn't be difficult. They couldn't predict the location of any given eclipse, but eclipses follow a pattern by date which, IIRC, was definitely known in the ancient world.
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Old 03-December-2006, 04:05 PM
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They couldn't predict the location of any given eclipse, but eclipses follow a pattern by date which, IIRC, was definitely known in the ancient world.
But that's just it-- what does someone in the ancient world care if there's a solar eclipse several thousand miles away? How do they even know?
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Old 03-December-2006, 05:30 PM
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But that's just it-- what does someone in the ancient world care if there's a solar eclipse several thousand miles away? How do they even know?
They probably don't.

But, they would be able to figure out that, given a certain situation or set of conditions, that sometimes a solar eclipse happens.
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Old 03-December-2006, 06:01 PM
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Perhaps eclipses had some special significance to them. Or perhaps they just liked the numerical exercise; even today we do astronomical calculations for events we'll never see.
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Old 03-December-2006, 06:46 PM
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All I'm saying is that the "predictive" capability of the mechanism, with respect to solar eclipses, would have been highly unreliable for the person using it, and most of the eclipses predicted by the mechanism would have been unverifiable, as they would have fallen on places on the Earth with which the individual could never be in contact (or they'd miss the Earth altogether). I am suggesting that if you look at, say, a computer program we would not use to predict solar eclipses, it will contain far greater complexity than could be built into the gears of an analog computer. Lunar eclipses are far more reproducible, as they happen for the whole planet Earth.
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Old 03-December-2006, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Mechanic View Post
After all, it takes time to get a bunch of people together to pound the drums and scare the dragon away!
I resent this.
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Old 04-December-2006, 09:50 PM
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I wonder if the ancients had any way of observing a partial eclipse of the Sun without blinding themselves?
Perhaps observing 'through a glass darkly' (or a polished metal mirror) or similar. In this way they could observe partial eclipses predicted by such a mechanism as well as total eclipses.
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Old 05-December-2006, 01:47 AM
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Partial solar eclipses can be observed by looking at the sun's multiple images on the ground under a tree with leaves.
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Old 05-December-2006, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eburacum45 View Post
I wonder if the ancients had any way of observing a partial eclipse of the Sun without blinding themselves?
I'm hesitant to admit this, but I watched a solar eclipse without eye protection when I was a kid. It did not blind me.

Do not try this yourselves. People will think you're a geek
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Old 05-December-2006, 05:07 AM
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I'm hesitant to admit this, but I watched a solar eclipse without eye protection when I was a kid. It did not blind me.

Do not try this yourselves. People will think you're a geek
Oh? Then how many fingers am I holding up?
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Old 05-December-2006, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Star
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Mechanic
After all, it takes time to get a bunch of people together to pound the drums and scare the dragon away!
I resent this.
Of course you weren't frightened away by any of this, were you?

I do have to admire the ancients for their egotism in believing that their puny drumming could drive away an entity capable of devouring the Sun or Moon!
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Old 31-July-2008, 09:56 AM
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The Daily Mail has picked this one up now

Quote:
The world's oldest calculator - a box of dials, gears and cogs created by the Ancient Greeks more than 2,000 years ago - could predict eclipses decades in advance, say researchers.

The Antikythera Mechanism, recovered from a Roman shipwreck more than a century ago, was also used to record the four-yearly cycle of the original Olympic Games.

It was created around 100BC and previous studies have shown that it was used to chart the movement of planets and the passing of days and years.
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Old 31-July-2008, 10:07 AM
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Another bite at the cherry by the BBC


Quote:
A 2,100-year-old "computer" found in a Roman shipwreck may have acted as a calendar for the Olympic Games, scientists report in Nature journal.

The Antikythera Mechanism has puzzled experts since its discovery by Greek sponge divers in 1901.

Researchers have long suspected the ancient clockwork device was used to display astronomical cycles.

A team has now found that one of the dials records the dates of the ancient Olympiad.
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Old 01-August-2008, 09:40 PM
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It would be a nice table piece.

Another idea

www.longnow.org
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Old 01-August-2008, 10:06 PM
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Dark Ages?
It was only dark if you looked in dark places.
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Old 01-August-2008, 10:11 PM
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Phil has now blogged about this now
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Old 04-August-2008, 01:33 AM
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I hope they do reproduce them, I'd buy one
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Old 05-August-2008, 04:05 PM
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Default Dude!

Dude! You're getting an Antikythera!

(Actually, I'd like one too.)
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Old 05-August-2008, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
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Dude! You're getting an Antikythera!

(Actually, I'd like one too.)


Hey baby wanna see my Antikythera? Hahah
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Old 06-August-2008, 12:13 AM
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It's unfortunate that its taken us this long to get where we are. I think civilizations just "peak" at a certain point and after that little or no technological progress is made.

Mostly because of a flawed worldview (The Romans were pretty full of themselves if you ask me, as is our current civilization) or simply a lack of resources.

You can't discover iron if you don't have the necessary ore to create it in your realm. You won't discover water wheels to generate electricity or grind wheat if you don't have waterfalls around.
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Old 08-August-2008, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken G View Post
It's very hard to predict where on Earth a solar eclipse will be visible, and I really don't think a bunch of gears can do it.
The Mayan's predicted the July 11, 1991 eclipse visible over Mexico City.
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