The ancient Mayans could not have known a date such as 2012. Even if they could, our looking forward to the year 2012 is a bit interesting since it is really based on the birth of Jesus. Actually, Jesus had to be born in the year we call 4 B.C. (since Herod the king was still alive and died that year according to corresponding records) or perhaps Jesus was born in the year 6 B.C. since Herod had all the boy children 2 years old and under to be killed in Bethlehem. That would make our year of 2009 at least in reality 2013 or even 2015. Despite a galactic alignment, we are past 2012 in that reckoning..

Thread necromancy alert: About 1.5 years.

The Mayans, naturally, did not call the date in question "December 21, 2012 AD." They called it the end of one of their long-count cycles -- the end of the 13th b'ak'tun. And no matter what you call the current year in any other calendar, we have not yet reached that point in the Mayan calendar.

And your analysis of what year it actually is, is a quibble. Through long tradition, the year is currently 2009. It is what it is because of the (unknown) way Dionysius Exiguus set his starting date -- 525 AD.

The Jewish calendar year is currently 5769, so their 2012 is long past.

Fred

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Did I mention that I'm considering converting to Judaism, thus I will be Jewish by 2012. I'm therefore exempt from this looming fiasco...

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So... What you're saying is... The end of the world happened long ago and we're all in limbo? :

That actually explains quite a lot of what I've been feeling, lately...

Oh, yeah. Didn't you get the memo? The Earth was destroyed, but the stupid people weren't told so they wouldn't panic. Didn't you... hear... Oh, my. Um, never mind. Forget I said anything.

( Paraphrased from a Steve Martin gag)

Fred

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Has the alignment according to the Mayan calendar actually happened in 1997?

The Mayan calendar doesn't mention any alignment.

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As above, so below

It occurred in May of 1998, assuming you mean the alignment of the galactic equator with the winter solstice position of the Sun.

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Let me say a couple of things on this:

1) The Mayan calendar to which you are referring is a long-count calendar marking Religious and Astronomical events of what the Mayans considered the "5th Age" of the world. It started 5,000 years ago and as we all know, the Earth and life on it started long before that. The end of the Mayan calendar doesn't declare the end of the world per say. It is the end of their long count calendar of this "Age". (Thus, all days following December 21, 2012 would technically be in the 6th Age). This isn't to say NOTHING will happen on this day, however it is likely not nearly as tragic as people are making it out to be. Something happens on this day that the Mayans had never seen before. Something astronomical and unknown and therefore projected to be much more destructive than it actually will be. Besides, the planets all galactically aligned some 26,000 years ago and the world is still here.

2) To those who don't think Mayans were "cool"...well...you're right that it depends on definition...and on ignorance (in the case of some of the posts on this site). A majority of the educated peoples of contemporary society were schooled with religious undertones and teachings based on a definition of what "Civilized" is. The Mayans weren't bad, or evil, or demonic. They also weren't good. They just were. Same as the rest of us. Is sacrificing captives to gods and having your King and Queen bloodlet in order for lands to be fertile, disease to be non-existent, and enemies to be few barbaric and savage? What about paying money to watch two caged men pummel each other until one is either unconscious or dead (UFC)? I think modern societies have a twisted view of what makes one group civilized and another barbarian. The formative Mayans, like the Olmecs, weren't much for bloodletting. Similarly, the ball game that was referred to dates back to the early formative times and, though very competitive, was not used to round up sacrifices. The golden age of Mayan society as seen in major cities such as Palenque, Tikal, and Chichen Itza was when bloodletting really began, though it was still very minor at this time. The King and Queen would sacrifice their blood (from the mouth and genitals) up to the gods in order to appease them and maintain prosperity for their people. In support of the King and Queen and to further make the gods happy, all other people made blood sacrifices of their own (either by cutting themselves or having a priest take the blood). When crops started to fail due to soil erosion and limited resources (the Mayans were a very prosperous, advanced society) the Mayans believed that perhaps they weren't appeasing the gods enough and began to offer more and more sacrifices. Captives were offered as were the losers of the famous, or infamous, ball game. Eventually the Mayans would cease their bloodletting and abandon their glorious cities. But look at what they left in their wake. Architecture far advanced for their time. Astronomical calculations unparalleled today. Mathematical achievements such as the use of zero. Agricultural techniques that haven't been mastered even today.

The Mayan legacy is not one to be ashamed of or to be thought barbaric. From many perspectives, the Romans were more barbaric than the Mayans. When one learns or speaks about history, an open mind is the most valuable thing. Also, not all things are black and white. It's a matter of perspective and what you know.

Welcome to BAUT Forum -- a place for astronomy and space science.

Do you have any scientifically persuasive evidence of that?

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I am basically supportive of cultural relativism, but that doesn't mean that we should say that anything is fine. I think that we can be critical of the Maya's bloodletting just as we can be critical of the gladiator sports and bullfighting and yes, the UFC. I absolutely agree that calling the Mayans an inferior culture would be wrong, but clearly there were completely barbaric things that they (like many ancient cultures) did.

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As above, so below

No, they didn't. The only alignment that happened 26000 years ago was between the Earth's orbital solstice and the apparent galactic equator as seen from Earth; this 'alignment' did not involve any other planets. This alignment has already happened again, in 1998, and wont happen again for another 26000 years.

Nothing particularly spectacular happened in 1998, and there is nothing special about the 2012 date (no special alignment, no anticipated catastrophes, nothing to see here).

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I've thought the Mayans were "cool" since I studied them in my History of Visual Astronomy class in 1979. They had a base 20 counting system, an excellent calendar, excellent visual astronomers, could predict the Venus cycle and eclipses, built amazing cities, etc.

But something special about 21 December 2012... modern day nonsense that has nothing to do with the Mayans.

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