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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

Your in timeout. Hehe, I used to hate when the teacher would tell me to go stand in the corner of the room (facing the corner). It wouldn't happen very often but it would happen sometimes. Always for talking with a classmate while the teacher was lecturing.

Anyway....Walrus....I understand your concern about astronomers (and Doritos) "shouting out". I too prefer that they wouldn't, but I don't have a problem with it if it has scientific value. Such as radar mapping of the solar system or communication with planetary spacecraft. The risk reward is worth it to me. However, in the case of the Doritos commercial, I think it is very irresponsible. I too couldn't help but phatom a scenario where a hundred years from now aliens show up on our doorstep ready to annihalate us because our unfriendly (as percieved by them) message. As you said, Murphy's Law is real. As a result, I will no longer eat Doritos. How dare they do something as stupid as that, and without having the approval of the majority. This however is just one example (an extreme one) of how we don't have total control over our lives let alone others. Another example is you could be crossing an intersection when someone runs a red.

With that said, I am convinced that many people want to see ET right now. They don't want their lives to pass without knowing if intelligent life exists elsewhere. They are so hellbent on this that they are willing to jeopardize everyone and everything. This is Russian roulette on a galactic scale. That is why I advocate legislation that would prevent this from happening. If you "shout out" for no scientific reason or without proper licensure, you get fined and/or go to jail. Anyway that is my stance.

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Show me the money
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I agree, but would point out that I don't mean those 'in-system' transmissions when I refer to shouting. I put them in the 'leakage' category. I agree they are worth doing... and I just hope they do it as efficiently as possible... since the higher the signal efficiency the less the unwanted leakage...

The 'shouting' I refer to is those that are directed deliberately, with as high a power as possible, to a carefully(?) selected stellar system that 'may' harbour ET. That is where the risk increases since the whole point is to have a team spend time working out the best chance of contact and then proceed to try to do so.

EndeavorRX7 made me think of a few interesting points. The first being that broadcasting is regulated by the government and you need a license to do it. What license covers SETI activity?

And what if the aliens have laws about broadcasting in the frequency range we're blasting at them. We could be starting our relationship with them by violating their laws.

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The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible.

Arthur C. Clarke

The Brain Science Podcast

Since this Doritos issue keeps popping up: here's a good video summary of the initiative.
It seems the signal will be sent on June 12th...

It amazes me that otherwise intelligent folk can say things like 'I believe they will be excited to get the signal.... I hope they are... they are not like us if they are not...' duh!

Warm and fuzzy.

Thanks Clint for putting a face to the ..... (I cant think what to call it....)

Maybe they can biologically sense radio frequencies, and we're sending out their mating call...

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

I've posted something like this in another thread, but this seems to be the correct one.

What if aliens, picking up our signals (perhaps future, stronger ones) judges us to be - in the long run - a potential threat to them?

"This species surely seem to be expansive, aggressive, not very good at empathy, greedy. In a few thousand years, maybe a lot earlier, they will be desperate finding a habitat, when their original homeplanet in nothing but a desert. The they will come here.."

If I was an alien, I would not pick up the phone when homo sapiens rang.

Hi again, teabinge, I see you found the thread Ok, I also copy my post:

It seems, there are roughly two types of positions:
1) sending out signals is dangerous because we don't really have a clue what might be out there listening
2) it isn't very dangerous because a) it's worth the risks considering what we could learn, or b) we're too far away from everything anyway

Of course your own answer also depends on how densely populated you think our galaxy is.

You also seem to be focusing on the negative a bit.

Much of our history is ...well... pretty bad. But much of it is good too- demonstrating our desire for peace, prosperity and equality.

If I were a listening species, I would pay attention to how we learn from our mistakes, overcome the primitive side and how we aspire for progress and improvement.

I imagine that a world would be hard pressed to evolve only a few species and also evolve intelligence. This is speculation on my part but still...
Given such, it seems natural that any intelligent life would understand what it is like to compete, squabble and create nationalities.
Perhaps some would view us as advanced, others would see us as primitive and immature as a species.

In the end, sometimes I am ashamed of humanity. Other times I'm proud of humanity. It just depends on what angle you look at us from.

Sigh...yes, maybe I'm too negative. Hope so.

I think everyone has watched a bit to much hollywood. who says aliens are bad?

I think it's only a problem if a Kardashev type II or III class civilisation picks up a signal from Earth, a civilisation so advanced it can manipulate space time, harness the energy from stars and have the capability of travelling huge distances in space, only then could we expect a visit, but I think it's highly unlikely. But why would they visit us anyway, we would be so inferior to them, would we be important enough to get any interest??

I think that everyone overlooks the fact that in order for a species to evolve it must overcome hardships for millions of years. It must know how to fight like hell and win out over every comer. To get to the level of intelligence of humans a species has had to have a REASON to become intelligent.

For this reason alone ANY intelligent species should be considered a threat. Peace is great, but survivors are the ones that won the wars whether the war be against nature or themselves. We can hope they are so advanced they are able to evolve themselves and no longer require nature to do the job. In that case they probably would be above fighting over anything like resources we may want. They'd say, go for it, have it... we'll be over here on Venus setting up shop... monkey.

The upside is that there have been some great arguments against the feasibility of other intelligent species existing within our radio bubble and against the ability of those species to come here even if they did detect us. You have to add up a lot of "if"s to get to the point where we need to worry. But I also agreed with the fact that despite the improbability, the possibility exists. Winning the lottery and getting hit by lightning are very improbable but it happens all the time. My luck is so bad that if I ever held a winning lottery ticket I would be hit by lightning before I turned it in. My mere existence on this planet puts you all in danger. (I am the anti-Teela!)

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The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible.

Arthur C. Clarke

The Brain Science Podcast

From this reference, I must assume that you must be aware in the "Known Space" universe there is a spectrum from non-aggressive species (Peirson's Puppeteers) to ultra-aggressive (Kzin)!

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Any day you wake up on "the right side of the dirt" is a good day.

T. Anderson

And to form an industrial civilization capable of interstellar communication, it has to be a social species, able to act cooperatively on a large population scale.

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

But my point ( a few postings up) was more like a solution to Fermi's paradox: If there are aliens out there, why (provided the number of stars and years) haven't we met?

It might be because they are cautious. Or they might be just introverted. They might be...you know...humanity is a rather young species, in it's puberty sort of. Energetic, dynamic, go-ahead but also some negative aspects, not very responsible, sensation seeking and a bit dangerous overall.

Older civilizations (included those with advanced technology) might be - older. And similar to older humans, they might be slower, more introverted and not so very interested in getting new friends.

If I was seventyeight, doing my garden and reading my beloved books, I hope I would be polite and friendly, but I sure as hell wouldn't be enthusiastic if some young, loud, beer-infested, giggling and barfing college-dudes in Hawaii-outfits knocked on my door.

I'm exaggerating a bit for fun, but I think you get the point. ?

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I think the most likely solution to fermi's paradox, however, is that life may be abundant but intelligent life using technology (dolphins do not) during a looong time (enough to overlap with us) is rare.

As for interstellar travel. If there are no shortcuts, wormholes, in spacetime, it might cost more than it tastes. If some advanced culture wants to study the Universe, they could do it by other means than by transporting their own bodies. We will, in decades to follow, search for life in alien solar systems studying the atmospheres of its planets. Imagine (no, we can not) what astronomy and robotics and unknown technology might be able to accomplish, regarding curiosity and science.

Regarding "lebensraum": For the costs of interstellar travel, they could build large inhabitats in their own solar system, on moons or on artificial bodies.

If there are no wormholes or warp drives, interstellar space is a desert. I believe..

Or a young, aggressive, armed to the teeth species that had the good fortune to be visited by a race that had been civilized so long that the concept of war was beyond their comprehension.
Presto! Instant space faring race!

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Any day you wake up on "the right side of the dirt" is a good day.

T. Anderson

you guys keep using the word species, but I think that only applies to animals that fit within our own classification system.

Suppose they're non-vertebrates with silicon based life. Then wouldn't they have their own Kingdom in our system?

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"I will do my best to understand and explain the universe from big to small without invoking miracles, unrepeatable events, or divine intervention. In place of those things I will use observations, mathematics, and science."


-Cross
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Some of my Astrophotography


Those that lack education have a hard time understanding its value. - Cross

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