Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > Space and Astronomy > Astronomy
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 19-March-2008, 08:30 PM
Kullat Nunu's Avatar
Kullat Nunu Kullat Nunu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,687
Default Possible naked eye GRB

AAVSO Alert Notice 372: Possible naked-eye gamma ray burst detected (GRB 080319B)

Quote:
The intense gamma-ray burst GRB 080319B was detected in gamma ray, x-ray,
optical light, and early indications by two automated cameras suggest that
the optical afterglow of the burst may have briefly reached naked-eye
visibility (mag ~ 5.76, GCN 7445, Cwiok et al) within 60 seconds of the
onset. It is highly unlikely the burst was caught visually, but it is
possible the burst may have been detected if any observers were monitoring
this area of the sky (e.g. for minor planet searching).


If you have seen or photographed it, let them know!
__________________
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.
-- Richard Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 19-March-2008, 11:24 PM
Don Alexander Don Alexander is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 93
Talking The Stunner of the Year!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep.

This is it.

The monster event everyone has been waiting for.

Swift detected a GRB this morning, GRB 080319A. It slewed to the GRB (which was discovered to have a very faint optical afterglow), and several robotic telescope systems observed it too - mostly without results. Several of these systems have wide-field sky imagers that reach 8th - 12 magnitude in single shots, usually a domain where afterglows don't get to.

But not long after, just roughly 10 degrees away, another GRB exploded, and this one was a blast. It's one of the brightest GRBs ever detected!! Since quite a few robots were already pointing in this direction, at least three wide-field systems recorded images before and during the explosion which lastet about a minute. One of these is a video system that seems to yield a time resolution of maybe a second per image or so.

Of course, multiple larger robots then slewed to the GRB, some of them also catching the peak magnitudes.

The peak magnitudes reported still diverge a bit, but the consensus is ~ 5.5!!!

Therefore, as mentioned before, under dark skies it was visible to the naked eye!!!!

Now, the real clou is that the redshift is 0.937!! This means the GRB exploded roughly when the universe was half it's current age, and the distance to the event is very roughly 10 BILLION light years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Furthermore, I've just figured out that this event was nothing less than the brightest optical flash ever detected. The luminosoty at peak exceeds 10^17 solar luminosities, so this basically outshines the entire universe for a few seconds. :O
__________________
David Alexander Kann
PhD student, Gamma-Ray burst Afterglow Collaboration at ESO
Thueringer Landessternwarte Tautenburg

<span style='color:blue'>Ignite our minds and let's burn brighter
These are the wonders at your feet</span>

<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>- Dark Tranquillity, The Wonders At Your Feet</span>
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 20-March-2008, 12:01 AM
peteshimmon peteshimmon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 1,579
Default

If current theories are correct
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 20-March-2008, 12:55 AM
01101001's Avatar
01101001 01101001 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 10,351
Default

Sonoma GRB Real-time map

GRB 080319E 2008/03/19 17:05:09 Swift 06:37:55 23:56:00
GRB 080319D 2008/03/19 12:25:56 Swift 17:15:53 55:24:35
GRB 080319C 2008/03/19 06:12:49 Swift 14:31:42 36:18:10
GRB 080319B 2008/03/19 05:45:42 Swift 13:45:24 44:04:44
GRB 080319A 2008/03/19 01:57:09 Swift 16:18:32 -15:16:30

Of course, GodlikeProductions (warning: adult -- juvenile, actually -- language, and lack of critical thinking) has an I'm-freaking-out topic.

Do I see the most on a day, in the last 4 years, was 3 (5 times previous)?
__________________
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0....
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 20-March-2008, 01:46 AM
fotobits fotobits is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Round Rock, TX
Posts: 85
Default

This is fascinating, and will keep astrophysicists busy for months, no doubt. I look forward to follow-up analyses.
__________________
"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened."
Douglas Adams
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 20-March-2008, 02:44 AM
FriedPhoton's Avatar
FriedPhoton FriedPhoton is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Event Horizon
Posts: 509
Default

I imagine this dark room (the universe) in which a flash bulb goes off.

"exceeds 10^17 solar luminosities" <- I can't even comprehend that.
__________________
The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible.

Arthur C. Clarke


The Brain Science Podcast
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 20-March-2008, 10:23 AM
Kullat Nunu's Avatar
Kullat Nunu Kullat Nunu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,687
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Alexander View Post
Now, the real clou is that the redshift is 0.937!! This means the GRB exploded roughly when the universe was half it's current age, and the distance to the event is very roughly 10 BILLION light years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeez, you must be kidding!

I was expecting a close one, like a few hundreds of millions of light years.
__________________
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.
-- Richard Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 20-March-2008, 11:47 AM
John Kierein John Kierein is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,851
Default

I have my own theory. A GRB must cause a huge ionization. This in turn causes the light from it to be redshifted by the Compton effect. Thus, the GRB redshift is intrinsic and not a measure of distance or velocity of the source. This is the same as the large (nearly 1%) red shift on the sun seen in the gamma spectrum by HESSI during a solar flare. The sun doesn't suddenly temporarily appear at the red shift distance nor does it move away from us. http://sprg.ssl.berkeley.edu/adminst...03_ajl_L81.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 20-March-2008, 07:41 PM
dr_lha dr_lha is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kierein View Post
I have my own theory. A GRB must cause a huge ionization. This in turn causes the light from it to be redshifted by the Compton effect. Thus, the GRB redshift is intrinsic and not a measure of distance or velocity of the source. This is the same as the large (nearly 1%) red shift on the sun seen in the gamma spectrum by HESSI during a solar flare. The sun doesn't suddenly temporarily appear at the red shift distance nor does it move away from us. http://sprg.ssl.berkeley.edu/adminst...03_ajl_L81.pdf
GRB redshifts are measured using absorption features from their surrounding host galaxy, not from emission lines from the GRB itself. Redshifts seen in GRBs are purely cosmological, not intrinsic, so their estimated distances are sound. GRB 080319B is very bright, and very distant. A truly exciting event.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 20-March-2008, 10:05 PM
Kaptain K's Avatar
Kaptain K Kaptain K is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Elgin, Tx
Posts: 7,567
Default

dr_lha,

This is one of John's "pet ponies", like "pushing gravity" and "intelligent molecular clouds in interstellar space" that he trots out every once in a while!

Oh yeah. Welcome to BAUT!
__________________
Any day you wake up on "the right side of the dirt" is a good day.

T. Anderson
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 21-March-2008, 03:00 AM
Squink Squink is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 537
Default

NASA Satellite Detects Naked-Eye Explosion Halfway Across Universe -with photos from Swift X-ray and Optical/Ultraviolet Telescope.
Someone caught it with a CCD on their 400mm reflector here.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 22-March-2008, 11:10 AM
John Kierein John Kierein is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,851
Default

Wonderful data from "Pi of the sky":
http://grb.fuw.edu.pl/pi/index.html

The coincidence of the optical and gamma radiation within 10 seconds has implications that there is no wavelength dependence on the index of refraction of the interstellar and intergalactic medium.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 24-March-2008, 12:46 AM
Doodler's Avatar
Doodler Doodler is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 9,383
Send a message via AIM to Doodler Send a message via MSN to Doodler
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedPhoton View Post
I imagine this dark room (the universe) in which a flash bulb goes off.

"exceeds 10^17 solar luminosities" <- I can't even comprehend that.
After a certain point, your ability to see is just completely overwhelmed, so for an individual's understanding, that measure is less one of how really bright the event was, than it is of how REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY far away anything with some form of vision similar to ours would want to be if they wanted to ensure that wasn't the last thing they ever saw from behind their utterly fried optic nerves.

That kind of bright makes burning magnesium look like moonlight through mirrored sunglasses.
__________________
I'm not completely heartless, the doctor who removed it told me he'd never be able to get it all.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 24-March-2008, 12:55 AM
eburacum45's Avatar
eburacum45 eburacum45 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: old york
Posts: 4,544
Default

Isn't it more likely to have been a highly directional ray from a distant GRB, rather than a flashbulb burst which shone in all directions at once?
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 24-March-2008, 02:45 AM
winensky's Avatar
winensky winensky is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ballarat, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 610
Default

Thanks John for that wonderful link. for the Pi in the sky team and their contribution to the wavelength dependence question. In terms of the overall energy release, This thing was VERY far away. Even if we happened to be in the limited 'cone' of projection, The energy required to create a 5.8 magnitude burst is staggering.

Kind regards
Matt
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 24-March-2008, 11:05 AM
ryanmercer's Avatar
ryanmercer ryanmercer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Greater Helium, Barsoom (Speedway, IN)
Posts: 491
Send a message via AIM to ryanmercer Send a message via Yahoo to ryanmercer
Default

Nice
__________________
-The Wolf
http://www.ryanmercer.com

Sponsor My Education
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 25-March-2008, 06:23 AM
broken_arrow broken_arrow is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4
Default

More like a laser than a flashbulb, makes you wonder how many of these miss us on a constant basis.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 25-March-2008, 06:11 PM
m1omg's Avatar
m1omg m1omg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,310
Default

Just out of curiosity,at which distances it would have to be to completely obliterate the Earth (fully), melt all of Earth, just melt the crust, melt 1 km of the crust, melt crust 1 meter deep,evaporate all the atmosphere, boil the seas, exterminate life,cause mass extintion and cause a cool aurora display visible from the entire Earth while disrupting electronics assuming, that it's luminosity is 1017 Suns?
How it can be calculated?
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 26-March-2008, 09:07 PM
Kullat Nunu's Avatar
Kullat Nunu Kullat Nunu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,687
Default

Well, luminosity drops as inverse squared, i.e. if the at the original distance d the luminosity is L (which you need to know), then at twice as far (2*d) luminosity is 1/(L*L) = 1/L2, at 4*d luminosity is only 1/L4 and so on (in other words, the amount of energy drops rather rapidly).

You also must know how much energy is needed to for example to melt the crust of of the Earth; then find a distance at which the energy of the burst is same and so on...

In order to cause a mass extinction, the burst has to within a couple of thousand light years. But to really fry up the Earth it must be located really close.
__________________
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.
-- Richard Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 26-March-2008, 10:12 PM
m1omg's Avatar
m1omg m1omg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,310
Default

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/...t-Killers.html

Well, according to this website, the energz needed to completelz destroy Earth would be roughly 5E16 megatons..

Would someone do the maths for me pls?I am no good at maths.
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 27-March-2008, 01:34 PM
Kullat Nunu's Avatar
Kullat Nunu Kullat Nunu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,687
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by m1omg View Post
Would someone do the maths for me pls?I am no good at maths.
There's a cure for that: study it.

5 · 1016 megatons? If the BA is right, the Sun produces 100 billion = 1011 megatons worth of energy every second. The GRB released million million million times (= 1018) more energy in the few seconds it lasted (= 1011 · 1018 = 1011 + 18 = 1029 Mt). In other words, you could blow up the Earth 1029 / (5 · 1016) = 2 · 1028 - 16 = 2 · 1012 times. That's 2 trillion times. Even if the number is a few orders of magnitude off, it is still a mindbogglingly insane number.
__________________
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.
-- Richard Feynman
Reply With Quote