Hi Frank. On the most recent diagram, the top part is from JPL data of the solar system centre of mass, while the bottom part is an excel spreadsheet as follows.

1. Enter

• A1: 11.8592
• A2: -1
• A3: =A2+1/A$1
• B1: Jupiter
• B2: =SIN(A2)
• C1: 29.657296
• D1: Saturn
• E1: 84.323326
• f1: Uranus
• G1: 164.79
• H1: Neptune

2. Copy the formulas to all columns then copy down the spreadsheet for several hundred rows
3. Chart columns bdfh to get four sine waves with periods corresponding to the gas giants.
4. Add arrows and ovals and text use the miraculous excel draw function.
5. Print screen, paste into paint and crop.
6. Make sure jpeg size is within BAUT attachment limits, if not, select all and shrink.


Robert

Here is a further illustration of the helix pattern of Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune. This diagram is a composite sine wave, adding the sine waves of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune over 800 years. In addition, sine waves of Saturn and Neptune are shown, with the five successive cycles of conjunctions, occurring with Jupiter (not shown) each 179 years, at the five different coloured sets of arrows. It can readily be seen that the composite wave (green - SSB JSUN) has very similar shape at each same coloured arrow. This is just a schematic built as a mathematical model, with effects of each gas giant set at equality in order to highlight the input of the further planets. In reality the shape of the barycentre wave function is much more similar at the arrow points than is shown here. If this two-dimensional sine wave were presented in three dimensions as a cylinder, each arrow would take about eleven points to circumnavigate the ecliptic, in families of Jupiter-Saturn-Neptune conjunctions moving into and out from exactness over the millennia, with the twelfth point about one twelfth further around the ecliptic. By an interesting coincidence, the lunisolar precession of earth's equinox each ~25764 years takes very close to 144 of these arrows. These are rough calculations. I hope there are astronomers with interest in this cyclic pattern of our solar system who could verify my numbers and model. If anyone can suggest a web location where I could put a better version of the attached picture, or if you have questions about it, please let me know.

Attached Images

179 year cycle of centre of mass.jpg (129.6 KB, 22 views)

Attached version shows the model I am describing. It just shows the 35.8 year conjunction cycle of Saturn and Neptune, occurring in five sets of cycles, shown here over 800 years, in a permanent structure of the solar system. These cycles are moderated by the position of Jupiter (not shown), which stands at the same angle to each fifth SN conjunction every 179 years, indicated by arrows. The precession period of 25764 years is 144 times the 178.9 year JSN cycle. Every second SN conjunction (71.6 years) occurs after one degree of lunisolar precession of the equinox.

Robert Tulip

Apologies that shrinking this jpeg to within BAUT attachment limit makes it hard to read. Please let me know if you would like the excel original.

Attached Images

Saturn Neptune Cycle 716 years.jpg (127.5 KB, 12 views)

A further diagram here illustrates the relative influence of the gas giants on the sun in terms of the position of the barycentre. Rather than varying the amplitude of the orbits with their relative distance from the sun, the amplitude of the sine waves are weighted to show their relative effect on the solar system centre of mass.

ETA
At any two points separated by 179 years on the x axis, Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune should be in the same positions.
The word 'gravitational' in the title of the attachment is not correct, as the ratio J:S~=3:1 is a function of mass not gravity.

Attached Images

Jupiter Saturn Uranus Neptune Gravity at Sun.GIF (55.2 KB, 12 views)

In the Direction of Sun Q&A, a respondent (Hornblower) provided this picture of the solar galactic vector over 750,000 years, showing the direction and pace of movement of the sun against the galaxy. The vector in this picture could be presented as a helix, as discussed in this thread, made up primarily of the orbits of the sun and gas giants. Connecting the dots for the Jupiter-Saturn-Neptune conjunction every 179 years, another helix is described that advances close to 30 degrees per instance and circles the vector about once every 2150 years, 300 times in the course of this 50 light year movement of the sun. A logarithmic scale could depict both the helix and the vector in one picture.

I have now built a prototype model of the solar system to illustrate the permanent relations between Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune in their 179 year conjunction cycle. On a flat board, three coils of wire illustrate the three planets, with 1.08 coils for Neptune, 6.08 coils for Saturn and 15.08 coils for Jupiter. The coils are held in place with 15cm vertical dowel sticks with holes drilled where the wire passes through. Wool is used to join planets at conjunctions, with planets made of polystyrene balls stapled to the wire. Orbit scales are Jupiter = 10 cm, Saturn = 20 cm, Neptune = 40 cm

This model produces a series of ladders similar to the DNA double helix. The Jupiter-Saturn ladder rungs are separated by 59.3 years and the JN and SN ladder rungs, in an extended model, are separated by 179 years.

This model shows the locations of these gas giants every 179 years, with the starting point advancing 1/12 of the circle of the ecliptic, as a permanent model. For example, it shows the positions of the planets after two current sets of conjunctions beginning in the following years.

A number of interesting astronomical features can be seen from this model. For example, the current JSN cycle that began in 1882 also includes the conjunction in 2022 in the other family. This 2022 event is spread over about six years, and is at the end of a family of conjunctions which was exact* in 769. The 1882 family was close to exact in 1524.
*JSN reached the same point within three days from 17-20 July 769.

The five SN points every 35.8 years mark five simultaneous helical families of JSN conjunctions, with the JS point drifting slowly against the SN cycle.

Stacking twelve 179 year periods on top of each other will reveal these slower Neptune cycles, with the twelve JSN ladder rungs on the triple helix forming a full circle around the ecliptic every 2148 years.

These bodies are the main influence on the distance between the sun and the system centre of mass. The barycentre can be included as a central dowel.

Uranus is not included because it is not part of this permanent cycle.

Wire, dowel, polystyrene and wool are crude materials to model the solar system. I would like to make an exact model using design software showing how these patterns develop over longer periods. This would make an excellent thesis topic for a university science student. I would be happy to assist anyone interested to pursue this fascinating project. I will send photographs of the model to anyone who asks by private message.

Robert Tulip

Other images here

The purple threads show conjunctions between Jupiter and Neptune, the black threads show conjunctions between Saturn and Neptune, and the red, green, orange and blue threads show conjunctions between Jupiter and Saturn over 179 years. The Jupiter-Saturn ladder has two rungs between the JSN triple helix rungs at the base and top. Over 2148 years, there are twelve rungs of the triple helix, in five simultaneous groups around SN, fourteen around JN and three around JS.

These photos are of a beta version. I have since corrected errors which keen-eyed observers may have detected. The purple thread at the top joins Jupiter and Neptune. It should pass beneath the Saturn orbit rather than above as shown. The Saturn-Neptune black threads should be separated by fifths of the orbit to mark true relation to alignments with JN. Saturn has a widening gyre in the model, and needs the wire pulled in to correct the orbit. The barycentre can be shown with the central wire forming a helix with outer turning points at the JS conjunctions and midpoints close to the sun. Styrofoam planets are needed to mark Jupiter on the second and third JS ladders, which also need to be added to show the full braid of the system.

The following table compares each set of conjunctions. The third column of each group shows the symmetrical axis of the planetary conjunctions around this basic cycle, which describes the structure of time for the solar system.

4dsolarsystem.com has a simulated 20 month long exposure of the entire solar system.

Thanks, this is nice. The sine wave patterns of the planets illustrate their orbital periods, with Mars completing nearly one orbit, Earth 1.6, etc. The outer planets seem only to go to Uranus and not to include Neptune or Pluto.

Comparing to the 179 year model I presented above, the period shown at 4dsolarsystem.com is an extremely short picture of the overall system. By taking longer snapshots, and paring back to recurrent patterns such as the JSN cycle, we can examine the temporal structure of the solar system.

Highly informative. Great read.

Taking further this analysis of how the Jupiter-Saturn-Neptune cycle is 1/144th of the earth's Great Year, I have built a diagram illustrating the relation between the Great Year, the movement of the South Celestial Pole, and the Indian theory of the Yuga. I am not sure about the scientific status of the Yuga diagram, but it does have a prima-facie match with the cycle of precession.

I made more detailed diagrams of similar cyclic periods of the solar system, for example a geocentric model of the 1960s.

And so it is! We had a poster here a while back, from Australia, if I'm not mistaken, who touted this information all the time.

He was largely dismissed, and towards the end, his disgruntlement with the negativism became cause for his demise.

It's nice to see this idea resurfacing, but it's a shame what happens to early proponents.

__________________
If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.

Robert, think you could look over this paper I posted? It tries to tie in orbital resonances of the outer planets with our sunspot cycle. I thought you might be interested, and that you might also check their workings.

__________________

You might be talking about Ray Tomes from New Zealand. Ray was banned from BAUT for issuing legal threats, and was indeed disgruntled at the lack of interest in astronomical cycles. He was not aware of the 179 year JSN cycle that I have discovered and described here, but rather thought that the barycentre followed cycles of differing lengths. So he did not tout this information, let alone all the time, as he was not aware of it.

See Jupiter influencing sunspots

Here is a view from the future back along the galactic path of the sun showing Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune relative frequency, diameter and position over 179 years. I have since done more work on this model to make it more complete and accurate.

Here is a diagram showing the sign position of Neptune from 53AD to 2201AD. The large numbers are the years when Neptune was conjunct Jupiter and Saturn in that sign, showing how this conjunction cycle advances by 30° per time.

The circle with Neptune dates can be placed on the spindle of the model. The large year aligned to the base of the triple planet spiral shows the conjunction dates of Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune for the following 179 year period. A problem with this Neptune date wheel is that it uses the tropical signs as they were in 53AD and does not correct for precession of the equinox. So the dates for more recent cycles are sidereally incorrect by 2.5° per cycle, adding to 30° over the entire period. The designation "Age of Pisces" refers to the period when the position of the sun at the March equinox is in Pisces.