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Old 20-January-2004, 08:21 AM
lpetrich lpetrich is offline
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Default The Canals of Mars?

Does anyone know of any good history of how they were received?

My understanding is that canals were far from universally accepted even in the days of Schiaparelli and Lowell and their "observations" of canals. Some of their Mars-observing colleagues, like Antoniadi, never saw them, and some astronomers experimented with having schoolboys draw simulated planets.

And that most astronomers had become very skeptical about the canals by the mid-20th-cy. -- were there any remaining supporters of canals on Mars by then?

I'm interested in what may be called pre-spacecraft views on the subject, since Mars-visiting spacecraft have sent back large numbers of pictures without any Schiaparelli-Lowell canals being evident.
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Old 20-January-2004, 08:35 AM
Archer17 Archer17 is offline
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I think "canals" was a mis-interpretation of the "channels" that Shiaparelli observed thru his scope. I know people will correct me if I'm wrong .. it's the BABB culture 8)
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Old 20-January-2004, 09:55 AM
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They weren't well recieved at first at all. Noone else could see them, even when using the same telescopes at the same sort of time. When he started seeing identical patterns on Venus, people were even more incredulous.

It turned out that he'd accidentally reproduced the thing you get in an eye exam where a light is shined into your eye and you can see the veins on your own retina. The "canals" were an optical illusion created by him looking into his own eye.
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Old 20-January-2004, 11:11 AM
lpetrich lpetrich is offline
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Archer17 is correct. Schiaparelli had used the word canali, which may be translated "channels". But someone translated it as "canals", implying artificiality.
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Old 20-January-2004, 12:09 PM
Amadeus Amadeus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex W.
It turned out that he'd accidentally reproduced the thing you get in an eye exam where a light is shined into your eye and you can see the veins on your own retina. The "canals" were an optical illusion created by him looking into his own eye.
DOH! #-o

Can you imagine having to explain that to your peers?

"Well you know those chanels on mars I was banging on about for years? Well...... you're never going to believe this......"
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Old 20-January-2004, 12:12 PM
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Schiaparelli used the Italian word canali to describe linear markings that he observed in that year and at subsequent oppositions. He drew increasingly elaborate maps in which the canals became a more and more prominent feature, even seeming to double on a seasonal basis ("gemination," of canals). On balance, he favored the view that they were natural waterways, although he never opposed the suggestion that they might have been intelligently constructed. To begin with, he received little encouragement from the astronomical community. Observers of the caliber of Asaph Hall, who first glimpsed the two tiny Martian moons, and Edward Barnard, discoverer of Amalthea, a faint inner satellite of Jupiter, never saw linear markings on the Red Planet. In 1894, Barnard wrote:

I have been watching and drawing the surface of Mars. It is wonderfully full of detail. There is certainly no question about there being mountains and plateaus. To save my soul I can't believe in the canals as Schiaparelli draws them. I see details where he has drawn none. I see details where some of his canals are, but they are not straight lines at all. When best seen these details are very irregular and broken up . . . I verily believe . . . that the canals . . . are a fallacy and that they will so be proved before many favorable oppositions are past.

Barnard's skeptical stance represented the majority position of professionals throughout the period of the canal debate. Yet, enough reputable astronomers did verify Schiaparelli's canali to keep the controversy alive. Moreover, such was Schiaparelli's reputation as a skilled observer that, even among opponents, his claims concerning the mysterious lines were treated with respect and Mars became the subject of intense scrutiny at the world's leading observatories.
From The Encyclopedia of Astrobiology, Astronomy, and Spaceflight


Quote:
Originally Posted by lpetrich
Archer17 is correct. Schiaparelli had used the word canali, which may be translated "channels". But someone translated it as "canals", implying artificiality.
Canali can mean both "channels" and "canals". See below:

http://www.aromatic.com/itaeng/ (Under canale, the singular noun.)

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Scientific speculation about Mars and its inhabitants goes back at least 100 years ago when the astronomer Giovanni Schiapparelli, using a 9 inch telescope, claimed to have found numerous canals criss-crossing the surface of Mars. The regularity of the pattern of these canals suggested to him that they were artifacts of a civilization. To be specific, he called these canals, "canali" - a word that in Italian has both the meaning of "channels" and "canals". The latter word was used in the publicization of his discovery when his work was reported through English language media; thus, the use of the word "canals" implicitely suggested that these features on the planet Mars were made by intelligent beings and were not the product of weathering.
http://physics.syr.edu/courses/CCD_N.../previous.html

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Noted astronomer, Giovanni Schiaparelli, was partly responsible for the heightened interest in Mars that continued to sweep the world towards the end of the next century. In 1877, after peering through an eight-inch telescope, he reported seeing dark areas on Mars, connected by lines, which he labeled Ôcanali', meaning chanels or grooves. "Canali" can also mean canals, and that was how the word was spread. Word went out that the astronomer had seen canals on Mars.
http://www.phy.bg.ac.yu/web_projects...g/marsdisc.htm
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Old 20-January-2004, 03:22 PM
russ_watters russ_watters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpetrich
Archer17 is correct. Schiaparelli had used the word canali, which may be translated "channels". But someone translated it as "canals", implying artificiality.
Except that Lowell DID mean artificial structures. He even wrote a book about it which included elaborate speculation on the martian civilization.
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Old 21-January-2004, 12:37 AM
JonClarke JonClarke is offline
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The thing about the canalli is that were generally seen only visually. Photographs taken even over a few minutes were too blurred to reoslve such fine features - even if they were real.

The interesting thing is that is very high resolution photos taken from earth you can see faint linear albedo features that correspond to canalli. For example in the magnificent series taken by the UKIRT on August 17 last year (http://www.aao.gov.au/local/www/jab/...rs_images.html).

It is not surprsing that observers gradually interpreted these faint lines as real features rather than subtle variations in albedo.

Jon
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Old 21-January-2004, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonClarke
The interesting thing is that is very high resolution photos taken from earth you can see faint linear albedo features that correspond to canalli. For example in the magnificent series taken by the UKIRT on August 17 last year (http://www.aao.gov.au/local/www/jab/...rs_images.html).
Which images specifically?
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Old 21-January-2004, 02:30 AM
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When the Martians found out that our telescopes could see their canals they covered them up.
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Old 21-January-2004, 03:02 AM
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A common classic experiment is to place a picture of Mars in front of a class of school children and asked to draw what they see. The children in the front row almost never draw lines or "canals", the ones in the back row almost always do.
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Old 21-January-2004, 03:53 AM
JonClarke JonClarke is offline
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milli360 wrote:

"Which images specifically?"

Look at the annotated image http://www.aao.gov.au/local/www/jab/..._annotated.jpg

Using the classical where possible nomenclature and trying to see the image as someone would in (say) 1920):

1) A faint linear feature running from the south polar cap towards Mare Cimmerium, almost in the centre of the image. This may correspond to the Scamander canal

2) A curvilinear feature running eastward from Sytris Major twards Thoth

3) Two stubby linear features running north from Mare Cimmerium towards Elysium on either side of Aeolis

4) A linear feature on the north side of Elysium

5) Three radial linear features along the northerm rim of Hellas, one seems to be traceable discontinously across Mare Tyrrhenium to Lybia (south of Isidus).

Having worked with people looking for linements in various forms of imagery, it may be worth noting that people's abilities to see linear features seems to vary considerably.

Jon
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Old 21-January-2004, 04:43 AM
JonClarke JonClarke is offline
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With respect to the original question, a very useful summary of the history of Mars observation an be found at http://www.uapress.arizona.edu/onlin...s/contents.htm, with particular reference to chapter 4-10 inclusive.

Jon
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Old 03-February-2004, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex W.
Noone else could see them,
If noone else could see them, the why sweat it? Let the "Smart and Gifted one figure it out".
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Old 03-February-2004, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: The Canals of Mars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lpetrich
Does anyone know of any good history of how they were received?...I'm interested in what may be called pre-spacecraft views on the subject, since Mars-visiting spacecraft have sent back large numbers of pictures without any Schiaparelli-Lowell canals being evident.
Your statements in the opening post of this thread are quite correct as far as I've read. There was also a PBS program (possibly NOVA) about this some years ago.

The webpage linked below contains a bunch of early objections, and if you scroll further down on that page, you'll find some shorter one-line objections to Lowell's views.
http://eee.uci.edu/clients/bjbecker/...s/week10b.html
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