Howdy!
Thanks again to all for answering my last batch of questions! I'm sure this has got to be annoying for some of you, and I'm sure that a few of you have probably answered these questions time and time again, so I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your patience!

I did pick up a Meade 2x Barlow this afternoon...works great with the 25mm lense, but was a little blurry with the 9mm...on the other hand it's not exactly a crystal clear night either...kinda dodgin clouds as I go! With that said tonight, we were able to see the rings of Saturn! WOOHOO! ROCK & ROLL! Also with the Barlow and the 25mm we were able to see the bands on Jupiter (and 3 moons tonight...Ganymede was hiding LOL).

I started playin with the Autostar a little tonight. Still have to figure out how to do the alternate alignment methodes as the "Easy" alignment went looking for Sirius...which is on the other side of my house (LOL). I was able to get it to track Jupiter tho...tracked very nicely. I did notice at higher zoom levels, that there was some vibration that was noticable from the motors. I found a good Meade specific forum and will be asking them if they have any suggestions for that.

Anyways, on to the questions!

First I need a couple of definitions from that my first newbies questions post explained...

"Eye Relief"...I've seen this mentioned in a few places, but have no idea what it means.

"Plossl"....huh??? Sounds like something I do after eating too many tacos! LOL!

Ok, this next quesion may sound a little strange...are there any black holes or nebula around the vacinity of Jupiter? I was playin with the Barlow with the 9mm and was tryin to get things focused. My view finder is still a little out of whack with the scope, so I had lost Jupiter for a moment while I was lookin. While trying to focus, I found this section out there that basically looked like a dark black "blob". Now, I'm not sure if I actually saw something or if it was something stupid like condensation on the lens, mirror, etc...it was getting quite cold outside and I can only hold my breath for so long! LOL! I haven't seen anything like that in my astronomy software, so I'm leaning towards some kind of anamoly with the scope where I had it focused. This leads me to my next question...

Lens and mirror care/cleaning...
Yes, I know keep the dust caps on whenever I'm not using the scope...been doing photography work long enough to know that. Are there any special considerations I should know about when cleaning the lenses and espeically the mirror? I know sooner or later its gonna aquire -at least- a little dust...beween my house being quite dusty, have 4 cats and 3 dogs and living about a mile from a steel mill, its inevidable that this thing is gonna collect some dirt along the way. I -assume- one would use lens paper to clean this all with and I'm sure that great care should be taken when it comes time to clean the mirror...anything else I should know about?


Latitude & Longitude question...
I went to a website called Geocode and entered my address in so I could get my exact lat & log and the results came up with two different sets of numbers..."decimal degrees" and "deg:min:sec" ...which set of numbers is more commonly used (i.e. which set should I use as reference for my scope)? Degrees, hours, minutes, right ascention...this is getting a little confusing!

Compass question...
This may sound like another dumb one, so please bear with me! I was able to acquire a half way decent compass this week...its an automobile compass, buts its a nicer one (found it laying next to a Taco Bell drive thru!). It has calibrations on it and I have it set based on the position of my house, which again according to the maps I looked at, seems to be pefectly square to North. Now, according the the instructions for this unit which I found online, the reason it has calibrations is because car engines create eletro-magnetic fields (makes sense...alternator's etc). I'm planning in the next week or two, weather permitting, to head out to a friends house, who is a little outside of the city limits (I'm right smack dab in the middle of serious light pollution here at my house), so a compass seems like a handy thing to have for these types of outtings :-). Also, later this year when the weather warms up, I/we are planning on heading out to my folk's camper (private campground out in the middle of nowhere), so again a compass seems like it will be handy for setting up and initializing the scope. My question is...are there any other type of electromagnetic fields that I should know about? My friend does live near some high tension power lines...will this cause the compass to go all wonky? If all else fails, I've learned how to recognise Polaris, but I also know that its not "exactly" North...close, but not precise.

Weather...
Over the last few days, I've come to understand why many serious astronomers have a colladeral interest in meteorology as well! LOL!!! For me at the moment, this isn't a serious concern...beyond knowing when the sky is going to be clear, but just for references sake, can anyone suggest a website that has some definations on weather terminology...stuff like Stratus clouds, cumulous clouds, etc.?

Aloyone...
This one isn't a big deal either...just another curiousity. While looking around this eve with the scope, we found the star Aloyone (at least I think that was it) and its surrounding stars and my wife commented that it looked like a "tea cup with a spoon hanging on the side". I know I've heard this referenced before, but I simply can not remember where or in regards to what...does anyone have any info on this? The star was off to the right and little up from the constillation Orion.

Okies...I think thats all for tonight (hehehehe). I do have some Meade specific questions, but I'll bring those up on the Meade forum I found on Astronomy.net. As always, thank you tons for the info, wisdom, expeience and patience! BTW, I did take a look thru some of the other stuff on this website earlier today...some neat stuff :-). I may have a question about "collimation" later tomorrow...I'm gonna check the mirrow alignment tomorrow during the day time as I think that could be one of the reasons I'm having such a problem aligning the viewfinder (even though the view finder is just a pain to align)...I never really checked it when I set up the scope.

Bright Blessings all!
Jim

sorry, just re-read my post...instead of "vicinity" of Jupiter, I should have said "looking in Jupiter's direction"...DOH! I'm pretty sure there isn't a black hole or nebula right near Jupiter...its just that was the general direction the scope was pointing when I was messin with the focus.

BB's,
Jim

Just spotted this on someone elses post...

"turst"? Is this like, "you drinks water 'cause yous tursty"? :-)

Thanks!
Jim

I'll be going thru your post in another thread and commenting on those pointe there, but I can hopefully knock off a few of these here.

A 2x barlow and a 9mm eyepiece gives you an effective 4.5mm eyepiece, which if I recall from the other post is right at the ragged edge of max recommended magnification for that scope, which means you're on the ragged edge of best resolution. Any degradation of viewing conditions is gonna blur out your view. Understandable that things looked a tad blurry. Were things sharper with the 9mm by itself? If so, a plain 5mm or 6mm eyepiece might be your best bet with this one.

Excellent on the Meade specific forum. They'll be the ones to answer your question on the nuts'n'bolts of your scope. If it wasn't the one at Yahoo, might I suggest that also? Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/ and do a keyword search for "Meade telescopes" -- you'll get a list of maybe 30 different Meade discussion groups.

That's the comfortable viewing distance from the eyepiece to your eyeball. Short eye relief means ya gotta get up real close, otherwise the image focuses somewhere other than your optic plane and you don't see anythng. Also, short eye relief increases the odds you'll get poked in the eye if you bump the scope while squinting into it...

Here's the definition of various eyepiece names from the Orion website

Short answer, no. You wouldn't be able to see a black hole anyway. Nebula? There might have been one behind the planet a long way away, but Jupiter's brightness would have washed out any chance of you seeing it. Let's continue -- I think this will be answered a tad further down.

I do believe you were looking thru a bit of fog, either on the eyepiece or the objective. Don't breathe on things (admittedly tough to do sometimes), and it ought to go away in a minute or two. You may GENTLY wipe an eyepiece to clean fog off, but NEVER wipe a mirror. Let's continue on for why.

The danger in cleaning mirrors lies in how easily they can be scratched. They are 'first surface' mirrors -- that is, the reflective coating is right there on top of the glass, with no protection. The mirror in the bathroom is a 'second surface' mirror -- the silvering is on the back, and the light goes thru the glass to the reflective surface and back out thru the glass again to get to you. Fine for protection against the errant blob of shaving cream, but bad for most efficient transmission of light and optical qualities...but then, your face isn't light years away...
Keep your mirror protected, and you may literally go years without having to do a cleaning. It takes LARGE amounts of dust to noticeably degrade the image through a mirror. You are liable to do more damage in cleaning than the dust does by just sitting there.
When in doubt, follow manufacturer's recommendations.
This is a good subject for the Meade discussion groups you found.
That being said...a Google search for 'telescope mirror cleaning' and 'telescope eyepiece cleaning' will get you lots of information. This subject you should read about intensely before even thinking about attempting a cleaning. One wrong move, and you have a rather expensive clothes hanger stand...
Sample mirror cleaning page
Sample eyepiece cleaning page

Your scope's go-to operating manual should give you which format your location needs to be in. Make sure you actually do need this information -- don't overwhelm yourself with minutiae...

Well, a compass that jumps out of someone's car and waits for you to find it can't be that bad a deal...
The high tension lines shouldn't cause that much of a problem if any at all...and for your goto scope setup, Polaris is fine -- it's less than a degree off being straight north. That's well within the limits of error for a goto setup. If you're just looking for a 'general' north to line things up with before doing the two-star alignment of the goto, Polaris is just fine. H3ll, the general direction indicated by the moss on a tree trunk would probably work too...

I'd suggest a Google or the like search for a beginner's weather lesson...after all, does it really matter if it's cirrus or cumulostratus clouds that are preventing you from seeing Alpheratz? A general familiarity with the weather isn't a bad idea, but is not really a requirement for enjoying the stars...again, don't let yourself be overwhelmed by information.
A nice quickie tool to help determine how things will be overnight is
The Clear Sky Clock
Here's the Ohio list.
Here's the one for Cleveland, complete with reading instructions

Alcyone is one of the stars of the Pleiades (M45, if I recall off the top of my pointy little head). Off to the right and a little up from Orion? Kinda reddish looking? That's Aldebaran, the eye of Taurus the Bull. The Pleiades are a cluster that's further up and to the right from Orion.

Mirror alignment has to do with how well the image comes through. Finder alignment has to do with pointing it in the same direction as the main scope. They are not related. DO NOT screw with your mirror alignment yet. You are asking for major league headaches at this very early date.
Mirror alignment = collimation. It's too early in the game to be playing with this for you. I'd suggest finding someone who is very familiar with collimation procedures to lead you through it the first time or three. Incidentally, proper collimation may very well require you to purchase a few tools specific to the task.

__________________
"If a tree is cut down in the rainforest, and is used to make paper to print a book, and the book is really bad, and there's nobody that will read it, do you still hear a sucking sound?"
Charlie in Dayton, A.AsC.

Thanks Charlie.
Once again, my stupid computer crashed, so once again, I rewritting what I just wrote....gggrrrrr! It's a new computer I built for Yule and I still don't have all the bugs worked out yet!

Anyways...don't worry about the information overload thing...thats just the way I am :-). It doesn't detract from my enjoyment of whatever it is that I'm learning...for me, learning is half the fun! Basically, I try to absorb as much as I can initially, then later when I need more info, at least I have some sort of reference to it in the back of my head. More over, to use another music anology, you can't play a guitar, no matter how much you understand music theory, unless you know how to tune the guitar! I suppose that, in part at least, I'm trying to make up for my lack of interest in learning when I was younger....high school drop out, etc.. As I've gotten older, I've discovered that I really do enjoy learning!

Another thing I'm keeping in consideration here too, in regards to the quest for info, is my wife. After I get the hang of all this stuff, I'm gonna be teaching it to her as we got this scope as sort of a "joint Valentine Day's present" for ourselves (LOL). My wife is as curious, if not more so then I am and inevidably, I know she's gonna ask me "something" that I just won't know (like the "tea cup" thing last night)...but I'm tryin to keep that down to a minimum as much as possible :-). Also, I'm out of work right now (have been since Aug 02') and since I'm taking a bit of a break from the music...I got the time to dealve into this stuff rather deeply without detracting from my viewing time! Besides...its colder then whale snot out there! I can only stand to be out there for small periods of time, even with a heater pointed at my butt! LOL!!! I really can't wait for spring/summer!

Ok...now I need a little clearer definition on the "eye relief" thing...I -think- I got it, but lemme make sure here...

I did noticed that the eye piece on the 25mm lens has a larger opening (the part I look thru) on it then the one on my 9mm, which is quite small. Now, if I were to say use an 18mm lens with a 2x Barlow...assuming that the 18mm lens had a larger opening in it then my 9mm, but perhaps not quite as large as the 25mm...this would give me the same magnification as just using the 9mm, except that using the 18mm/Barlow would simply be easier to look thru...is this what we're talkin about here? I realize that using the Barlow puts the "extra lens in the light path cutting down a little on the amount of light that gets thru"...not worried about that at the moment as again this is for reference sake...just tryin to understand eye relief.

Thanks for the link to the Orion site...looks like some good info that I'll go thru over the course of the afternoon. The term "plossl" seems to be directly in reference to the eye relief thing...I'll figure it out :-).

On the viewfinder issue...
Yes, basically I can not get this sucker to align no matter what I do. Now first off, I don't plan to drill into the scope itself...the eye piece mount is a seperate piece that I would take off to drill, should I come to that eventuallity. I have posted this on the Meade forum I found, and will be checking that after I get this posted. The mount itself has two "rings", one front and one back that the viewfinder is mounted in, with two screws in each side that are directly across from each other on each ring. The screws are then set diagonally apart on each ring. If you have Adobe Acrobat on your PC, here's the link to the owners manual... http://www.meade.com/manuals/ and its the DS 2000 series. Take a look at page 6...while this picture isn't actually -my- scope, the viewfinder is identical and should give you a better idea of what I'm talkin about. You'll also see on page 13 that the instructions for aligning the viewfinder are pretty useless if theres a problem!

Now all of the cheaper scopes I looked at all had 3 screws in each side of the viewfind mount. Again, it only took me a few moments to get the viewfinder set on that Edu-Science scope I had picked up before...this thing, I've fussed and fiddled with it and just can't get it to align. This, so far seems to be the only design flaw of this product (and I do plan to write to Meade and tell them so!). It seems more logical (to me at least) that the mount should have 3 screws in each ring. Please keep in mind, I'm not planning on drilling it -yet-...I do plan to wait until I have more info and more expeience, but I am saving it as an option. I have considered the warrenty issues, but if I can't get the bugger to align, the warrenty is going to be one of my lesser considerations. Again, I will be directing this issue at the Meade users groups...I'm sure I have to be doing -something- wrong here.

I will definatly keep your advice about -not- cleaning the mirrors in mind...at this point I'm really more concerned about the lenses really (but will bookmark those links nontheless...again, thanks!). I -know- the lenses are going to get dusty and acquire a bit of skin oil, etc., eventually. Being that I do some photography work, I do have a nice pack of lens papers...will this be suitable for cleaning the lenses on the scope or should I be looking for something more specific (soft lint free cloth)?

BTW...thanks for the info on my "black hole" question out past Jupiter...I didn't -think- I had found anything...just sort of double checking to make sure! Not sure if you or others are "Trekkies" but it really looked like that shot from the original series with the "Ameoba"...looked like a small black blob in the middle of the stars! LOL! I'm sure it was just condensation on the lens :-0.


The stuff on the weather issues...yea, I realize its not -that- important...if anything its just another one of those things I've had an interest in for sometime and now seems like a good opportunity to learn more. Not lookin to become a weather forecaster or anything, just want to have a better understanding of our enviroment is all...and it seems to fit nicely with learning the astronomy stuff :-). Thanks for the website links!

Okies...I think thats it for now! I'm heading over to the Meade forum I found to see what they were able to come up with on the viewfinder issue and my slight vibration problem. I'll also be checking out Yahoo a little later this afternoon...I know Yahoo very well, it just never occured to me to check there for astronomy and scope info! (DOH!) So far, I haven't found any stargazer groups in my area, but I'll keep checking...I may be able to find something thru our local library or something. Just based on the lack of telescope equipment alone in this area, I'm gettting the impression there's just not a lot of interest in it up here.

BTW..Charlie, where abouts in the Dayton area are you? It's been quite a while since I've been down there, but I used to have some friends (years ago) down in Kettering so I do know the area a little...just curious.

Bright Blessings,
Jim

p.s. If ya haven't guessed by now, I can be "just a tad" long winded with my posts! LOL! Sorry they get so long...it just usually works out that way :-).

Both Sky & Telescope and Astronomy magazines have online searchable databases of astronomy clubs.

__________________
Any day you wake up on "the right side of the dirt" is a good day.

T. Anderson

"The Black River Astronomical Society, established in 1949, serves Lorain County,Ohio,USA and the surrounding area. Our meetings are free and open to the public and they take place on the first Wednesday of each month, at 7 p.m.at the Lorain County Metroparks Visitors Center on Nickel Plate-Diagonal Road in Carlisle Township. "

Might be worth a stop by in a couple weeks.

Also, for Autostar information and assistance (and some DS series scope information as well), Mike Weasner's site.

Two notes:

Eye relief is just the distance from the glass (on the eyepiece, where you look through) to your eyeball, when everything is in focus and you can see the whole field.

Long eye relief eyepieces generally have an eye relief of about 20mm. Anything under 10mm is uncomfortable for most people. I think 15 to 20 is about right.

I also wanted to comment on cleaning optical glass. For my eyepieces, I use a combination of alchohol and distilled water, and a cotton swab. Some people use the lenspen, and swear by it, but I'm more conservative (and I think it removed a speck of the coating on one of my eyepieces so I threw mine away.)

I never use compressed air on either a lens or a mirror, because there might be some gunk that comes out with the air. For air, I use one of those little blower bulbs you can get from a camera supply house.

I probably read the procedure I use in a book like Starware or the Backyard Astronomers' Guide.

For mirrors I use distilled water, a drop of dishwasher detergent, and a spritzer bottle to rinse the mirror really good. I use surgical cotten to lightly (no pressure) swab the mirror. Again, I got the procedures from books. However, I only need to clean my mirror every couple of years.

...trimmed and thinnned just a tad...


Keeping aurora's comments on eye relief in mind, you also have the correct idea.

Nope. 'Plossl' strictly refers to eyepiece construction. The eye relief varies as to how the lenses are ground, not how they're assembled.

Okay...I"m starting to get an idea here. One set of screws moves one end of the scope left/right, the other set moves the other end of the scope up/down. Also, you have to UNscrew one of the screws a certain amount before screwing IN the other one the same amount.
Unscrew the top screw almost all the way, and just use the bottom one to get the up/down set correctly. Then screw the top one back in to hold it in place. Then, unscrew one of the left/right screws, and dink with the other one to get the left/right correct -- this one will definitely take some interaction between both left/right screws to line that part up. Before you start, loosen all the screws and make sure your crosshair is properly oriented. In theory, this ought to get you where you need...

Just be gentle, and that ought to work just fine.

Southeast side, about two miles north of the Kettering line, just off the Wayne/Wilmington/Stewart intersection...

Good luck. Now, go get some stardust in your eyes.

__________________
"If a tree is cut down in the rainforest, and is used to make paper to print a book, and the book is really bad, and there's nobody that will read it, do you still hear a sucking sound?"
Charlie in Dayton, A.AsC.

Ok...first to SarahMc...thanks for the heads up on the Black River Society meetings...I'll write it down and plan to attend. Guess I'll have to tape Star Trek Enterprise that night :-) I do have to wonder tho...under your name here it says your in New York...how do ya know about Lorain/Black River stuff? Just curious...

Charlie and Aurora...I'm getting there on the eye relief thing...one question tho...how do I know what the eye relief is on my lenses (or other brand lenses for that matter)? The only thing I'm seein printed on the lenses is basically "Meade MA 9mm" (or the corresponding number). Basically when I go to get more lenses, this seems like something that I should at least be familiar with. Also, while I don't actually use my eye glasses at the moment for viewing, its inevidable that at some point in my life I will...and from what I've read wearing eye glasses is a factor with eye relief or something as well. Sorry if I'm fixating on this particular subject.

Also...I do understand about using an actual air compressor for "blowing out dust"...on top of everything else, I'm a PC tech (or used to be at least) and I'm well aware of the need for a condensation filter on a compressor for such things. I usually use either canned air or simply a vacumme cleaner with the nozzle hooked up to the exaust (mind you a dedicated vacumme cleaner...not one thats actually used for cleaning...don't want to be shooting more dust in while I'm tryin to clean it off!). I'm sure I won't need to clean the mirror for quite some time, but I know that eventually it will need a good cleaning...the websites previously provided are bookmarked for when the time comes :-)

I did take the scope out earlier this afternoon during the daylight and was able to get the viewfinder setup...it was still a pain. I've gotten a couple of messages from folks on those Meade forums that basically said, yes, after the warrenty expires, go ahead an drill the sucker. which is probably what I will do. They also said as far as the motor vibrations go to give it some time as the motors/gears are new and just need some time to settle in...sounds logical.

I am happy to say that while I was outside, I played with the Autostar a little bit and have a better idea of how to work everything...unfortnatly, we're supposed to have clouds and bad weather for the next few days or so and I won't get to test it again for a bit (Wahhhhh!). I found a reference on another forum to a comet thats supposedly comin this way, C/2002 T7 and I can't wait to take a look!

Charlie...I do -vaguely- remember the Wilmington area...if I'm not mistaken, the motel I stayed at (cant remember the freakin state route number) was the "New Motel Capri" and wasn't "too" far from there...I also remember finding a dead mouse behind my guitar case the day I left! LOL!

Anyways, thats it for tonight....reading Carl Sagan's "Cosmos" and my head is swirlling with 100,000 million years of microbiology! LOL!!!

Bright Blessings all...and thanks again!
Jim

Again, trimmed for brevity.

Not a problem, it's a legitimate concern. Other than reading the manufacturer's specs, I don't know a way to calc the eye relief without getting an image to properly focus on, and that means putting it in a scope. Aurora, ya wanna take a shot at this one?

I am mystified at the trouble you're having with the finderscope. Have you tried calling Meade customer no-service? Maybe they packed the wrong bracket or the wrong scope or your karma's expired or something...puzzling,,,


This is about an hour and 45 minutes after sunset now. The star Algenib on the corner of The Great Square of Pegasus is your marker. C/2002 T7 is just a squidge to the left of there...

...hey, I got the size right... =D>

Dead mouse behind the guitar case, huh?
I gotcha beat, dude......page 3 of the thread, post date 5 May 2003...

__________________
"If a tree is cut down in the rainforest, and is used to make paper to print a book, and the book is really bad, and there's nobody that will read it, do you still hear a sucking sound?"
Charlie in Dayton, A.AsC.

Lomitus. As far as eye relief goes, you won't find any spec's listed. You just need to keep in mind that short focal ep's will have very little eye relief, while long focal ep's will have lots of relief. Also, as far as eye glasses go, if you're near or far sighted, you'll never have to wear them for viewing thru the scope because you can adjust for your bad vision via the focuser. However, if you have astigmatism, then your out of luck, and eye relief is/will definitely be a concern for you.

__________________
. . . My moustache is touching my brain!!!!

Most manufacturer's list the eye relief for their eyepieces, some vendors do as well, and you can look some of them up in tables (maybe in Starware, or maybe Harrington has it on his web site), or ask online (a very active group is talking telescopes on yahoogroups). Some styles of eyepieces are advertised as having long eyerelief even in short focal lengths (Televue Radians is one, Orion sells a set from Vixen IIRC, etc.)

I'm near sighted, no astigmatism, but I often wear my glasses for observing for two reasons: if I am at a star party or observing with others, it makes it easier because they would have to refocus if I had it focused for me without my glasses; and sometimes when I'm hunting things down (may not be an issue if you are using autostar) I need to go back and forth between the Telrad, the finderscope, and the eyepiece, and it's extra trouble to keep putting the glasses on and taking them off.

I guess one question to ask is whether the 9mm eyepiece is comfortable to use, if so, then this probably isn't a big issue.