I just got my copy today and am only a few chapters in, but want to comment on Han Solo making the Kessel Run "in under 12 parsecs".

In one of the books, I think it was the first book of the Jedi Academy trilogy, they reveal some details of the Kessel run. I am going to do my best to remember what it is, but it has been a long time since I read it so there may be other readers here who correct/clarify the story.

There story goes that there is a black hole cluster that you must navigate to get to Kessel (okay, I am sure the stabilty of a planet in a black hole cluster where they are spaced close enough to make it difficult to navigate is a whole other story!) Han was running spice and dumped it as he was about to be boarded. He went back to pick it up and the imperials followed him. He cut it darn close to the black holes, the imperials fell in and he blasted free into hyperspace.

The idea is that if you keep a safe distance from the black holes, the distance you must navigate through the cluster is substantially longer than 12 parsecs. So making the Kessel run in 12 parsecs means you ran through there without getting sucked into a black hole, taking a shortcut.

I seem to remember Han knew he was pretty darn lucky even though he bragged about it.

So, that is the story. I saw Phil's page on it and agree that is sounds like a fix of a astronomy boo boo.

As for them using a unit based on Earth's orbit, any planet can use that mesaure...with Jupiter's larger orbit, a parsec as measured by someone near Jupiter, using the same def, would be the same as a parsec from Earth.

The real question is why are they also using seconds as a measure of angle?

Okay, I am rambling now so I will stop [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Rob

Dear Hale_Bopp,
I don't know why. Possibly, after 6,000 years, the Sumerian arc measure is imprinted on Human neurons. Do you have a suggestion of what measure to use, if not seconds?

Grads, maybe? Centigrads?

That's probably exactly it. When I first saw the movie, I thought they were just giving the impression of a boastful blowhard.

OTOH, we can measure anything in other units--the mass of the Sun is 1.4 kilometers, right?

A parsce is defined as the distance such that the parallax of an object at that distance is one arcsecond. It depends on the size of the parallax base distance; the Earth's orbit. If we move to Jupiter, that baseline is much larger, so the parallax is much larger. A parsec, then, using Jupiter's orbit, would be much smaller than the one using the Earth's orbit. If I am doing this correctly, it would be 5 times smaller, since Jupiter orbits at 5 AU from the Sun.

Ooops! I forgot the word not! Obviously, a parsec measured from Jupiter would be different than a parsec measured from Earth...that was the point...maybe their parsecs are different than ours.

So, BaDad, I guess a logical different choice would be to decimalize...100 degrees, each degree contains 100 minutes, each minute 100 seconds would be a possibility. Of course, this all assumes they have 10 fingers in the first place and developed base 10.

I think it will be interesting, should we ever make interstellar contact, to see just what units others have evolved!

Rob

The problem with this solution to Han's mistake is the context of the conversation, which (IIRC) went something like this:

Kenobi: . . . if it's a fast ship.

Solo: "Fast ship?" You've never heard of the Millenium Falcon?

Kenobi: Should I have?

Solo: It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs. She's fast enough for you, old man.

Since the conversation was specifically about the speed of the ship itself, it doesn't make sense to say Han was boasting about his personal piloting skills.

I've heard that Lucas says it was intended to show that Han's the type of guy who talks without knowing what he's talking about, but I think that's just Lucas trying to cover his own mistake . . . [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

__________________
SeanF

"Ask to understand, but don't challenge unless you have the knowledge."--NEOWatcher

The contents of this post are ©2008 by SeanF and may not be copied or retransmitted in any form without the express written consent of SeanF

I would like to propose an alternate solution: The Star Wars films are documentaries, filmed by pro-rebellion journalists who followed the exploits of a rebel group (much like the FARC, now that I think about it). Thus, these films are 1) rabidly pro-rebellion, demonizing the current administration; and 2) THEY ARE NOT ORIGINALLY IN ENGLISH. They were translated into English, and this "parsec" difficulty is merely a mistranslation. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

No, I'm pretty sure that's it. Even if they didn't know what a parsec was, it could have been anything--a microsecond, for all they knew. They just threw it in there, as Lucas seems to claim.

Ala Gene Wolfe's "Book of the New Sun"?
[img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

And that's 1.377 km.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wiley on 2002-03-19 12:28 ]</font>

Quite... As a matter of fact, in non pro-rebel writings, Palpatine is called "Emperor Palpatine the merciful" and Darth Vader is "Lord Vader the just".

Similarly we have Luke Skywalker the crooked, Obi-Wan Kenobi the wicked and Han Solo the Tyrant.

It would help if you knew what the Kessel run was before you start saying that the use of parsec is incorrect.


As taken from the SW databank
http://www.starwars.com/community/as...c20020221.html

While Captain Solo is known to make boastful claims that seem to defy the basic laws of space-time physics, in this particular case, an understanding of the mechanics of the Kessel Run illuminates this statistic.

The Kessel Run is a contest of speed and endurance for smugglers. Those who undertake it must deliver specified cargos (usually illicit in nature) to a series of divergently moving transport vessels. The smuggler must deliver the cargo before the transports wander out of the free trade lanes into restricted Imperial space.

Solo's record is impressive, since the transport vessels covered less than 12 parsecs of distance during his hurried run between them, a testament to his piloting and the speed of the Millennium Falcon.

That's kind of a stretch, since it's a meaningless comparison unless the transport vessels are moving at exactly the same speed for each attempt.

__________________
Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

Welcome to the board ultra. The parsec quote was a mistake, either when the script was written or a mistake by Han who was boasting without realizing what he was saying. There were later attempts by the SW community to 'fix' the mistake.

ultra, take a gander at SeanF's post on the issue. I think it concisely explains why it's an obvious blunder to use the word parsec in the given context.

__________________
"I'm making wheatloaf. It's like meatloaf, only with wheat"
"Isn't that just...bread?"

Well, unless you can read George Lucas' mind, how do you know it was a mistake? You cannot say it was a mistake since you don't know what the Kessel run is, or how an efficient run is measured. People just assumed it's a race and therefore assumed that it must be measured in time, rather than distance.

Considering that the Kessel Run was never referred to as a time measured race in any books or movies, how can you be so sure it was a mistake? The only explaination of the Kessel Run we have to go by is the description given by Lucas. And by that description, parsec is indeed the proper unit of measure.

"it's a meaningless comparison unless the transport vessels are moving at exactly the same speed for each attempt"

They are, the Kessel Run is a contest.

It's either a mistake by Lucas, or a mistake by the Solo character. Both concepts have been considered. Have you read the tread at all? Or are you just getting indignant for the sake of being indignant?

So either Solo is talking jibberish, or he's trying to convince someone he thinks may be ignorant that his ship is something it may not be.

__________________
"I'm making wheatloaf. It's like meatloaf, only with wheat"
"Isn't that just...bread?"

From the Official Star Wars site, the same site you've been getting your information from. Here is the last paragraph of that page (emphasis mine):

So you're telling me that smugglers hold carefully planned contests that happen at a particular time and a particular place and involve the actual transportation of illegal goods? How realistic is this? How long do you think it would take the authorities to figure this out? Why would they bother?

It's about as believable as trying to convince me that drug runners have a contest to see how fast they can get cocaine from Colombia to Florida, with the restriction that you have to use the exact same starting point, route, and ending point each time, plus you have to announce your attempt to independent parties so it can be properly timed.

It's not going to happen: these guys are businessmen, not recreationists. They're not going to waste time competing for anything other than their customers' money, and they're not going to risk their livelihood in such a pointless and risky way.

__________________
Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

We discussed this Kessel run thing in a thread last year, here is a portion of one of my posts with a further source:

As an Imperial Intelligence Officer, I can categorically say this is incorrect. [-X

The Terrorist group known as the "Rebel Alliance" has no Tyrants, but rather murderers and thieves. The criminal and self-proclaimed "Jedi", Luke Skywalker is wanted on charges for the murders of over one million loyal Imperial subjects who were merely going about their lawful and peaceful business when the Terrorist group struck, destroying the base they were on, including Grand Moff Tarkin who was attempting to negotiate a peaceful settlement at the time of the attack. He is also wanted in the assassinations of the Emperor and the last true Jedi, Lord Vader while they were attempting to start peace talks with the Rebel leaders after the Rebels attacked and hijacked a planetary mining platform over Endor and threatened to use it on populated planets.

Also wanted for involvement in the strategic planning of these crimes is the exiled Princess of Alderaan, Leia Organa. Her crimes also include Murder, High Treason against the Empire, Spying and Sedition.

The smuggler known as Han Solo is a wanted criminal on his home world of Corellia, a current fugitive of justice from CorSec. On top of that he has a number of outstanding warrants for smuggling, murder and theft. He is also wanted in connection with the death of the crime lord Jabba the Hutt and the disappearance of Bounty Hunter Bobba Fett. His co-pilot and a run-away slave, the Wookie Chewbacca is also wanted on similar charges.

These are not the only well known criminals in this organisation, and the Political Wing of the organisation, the "New Republic." Others include the ex-Imperial Senator Mon Mothma wanted on Treason and Sedition charges. The self-proclaimed Admiral Akbar for spying, conspiracy-to-murder, attempted assassination and high treason. Corran Horn, ex-CorSec and self proclaimed "Jedi", wanted on Corellia for the murder of twelve smugglers, currently has a number of Death Marks on his head. Also Wedge Antilles. Wanted for questioning about the involvement in the deaths of his parents as well as the Murders of over three million Imperials, including those executed by the hijackers of the Planet Miner at Endor.

As you can see the list of crimes and atrocities of this group goes on and on. Millions have died because of them and their