I am ashamed to say I have not read the book (though I have tried a few times to get a copy at the library, but it's always out; and while it's online, I hate reading stuff that long on screen).

So why not print off an online copy?

You aught to get in the right mindset to read the book as it is written from the point of view that human transport of an high order was the post chase -and Mars was very far away in those day.

Perhaps a quick run through Naysmyth and Carpenter's: “The Moon.”

Let me get something else straight: Tom Cruise is a freaking nutbag. Scientology is nothing but a cult, and very, very scary one. The stuff they teach is not only wrong, and not only silly, but it's dangerous.

I gathered that the mindset of Scientology was one of concentration, the opposite to Hindu trancendentalism. Is it wrong to concentrate all your resources on getting what you want?

Tom Cruise's recent bizarre meltdown on "The Today Show" only punctuates this. I also just found this interesting and hilarious website.

Interesting though this may be it is not proof of the stupidity of a man's religion.

The aliens (we can't call them "Martians", since it's never said where they come from) get to Earth using some sort of weird phenomenon: a giant storm starts with lots of lightning. The lightning strikes repeatedly at one spot, and from that spot a huge war machine emerges.

I'm not sure where to start with this one. Even Cruise's character mentions that the lightning has no thunder. I don't know how'd you do that. The news scenes make it clear this is an electromagnetic phenomenon, which lightning is. Lightning is also very hot (hotter than the surface of the Sun!), and this violently heats the air around it. That creates a shockwave, which we call thunder. Lightning bolts like that without thunder don't make sense.

Actually there are various forms of lightning that have no appreciable thunder. However it might be true that within the required distance, lightning can be heard. I believe that the distance at sea level is within 3 miles or so.

Oops! I have completely missed these threads in this forum. I'll try to pay better attention.

Just a quick note: I finally read the book. I loved it! I wish some authors still wrote like that. The opening few pages are incredible.

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Phil Plait
The Bad Astronomer
http://www.badastronomy.com
badastro@badastronomy.com

Congratulations!!! Now please update the rewiev of the movie with the knowlege how the book describes the events in fresh memory. I was a little disturbed to see you compare the new film with a an old one rather then the actual book that it should have been compared to. And keep up the reading of all those excellent classics. :-)

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"-UFO detected, interceptor launched"

While you are correct that Phil should update the review to incorporate his new knowledge of the book, the comparison to the 1953 George Pal film is still justified. Spielberg is a huge fan of the Pal film and incorporated references to it in many of his early films, such as "ET" and "Close Encounters of the Third Kind." If you are a student of the film (as I am), you will see that nearly every shot of the Spielberg film contains a reference or homage to the Pal film.

The most frustrating thing about the new movie is that Spielberg had the budget and talent to do the film "right" and he threw it away on another stupid disfunctional family movie. The War Machines were pretty much *exactly* as I envisioned them based on the descriptions in the book.

- Jack

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Jack Hagerty
ARA Press
www.arapress.com

They're about the only incredible pages in this book. HG Wells ain't nothin' special. "Time Machine" was a good novelette, nevertheless.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0407304/goofs

Well, he blazed a few trails in the sf world. You have to give him credit for that.

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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

Well he really was trying to put out his discontent about the world and social evolution/economics at the time in an entertaining way, and did so many decades before Asimov. In his timeframe, it took balls to do so, so I wouldn't say he was just another run of the mill scribbler

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The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Exactly. The turn of the century saw the ongoing industrialisation in Britain with a lot of new technology coming up in ever shorter intervals. Wells based WotW and Time Machine on many people's feelings that technology was overtaking them, that humanity was in the process of being swept away on a wave of innovations, sort of like travelling very fast into an unknown future. Time Machine can be interpreted as a social commentary on the future in regards to the present classes in society. He kind of exaggerated the interdepedency of upper and lower class.

WotW was more like an immediate view of the future in which a society utterly dependent on machines invades earth because their home planet is dying. Wells not so much foresaw WWI but more like speculated on future battlefield technology given the present conditions and resources, shifting from the individual soldier to machines (tanks), rockets and other scientific advancements as the main fighting force. No more man vs man, but man vs machine.

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I'm so broke, I can't even pay attention

The original poster was correct - it's wrong, it's silly, and it's a cult.

Roughly, Scientologists believe that 75 million years ago Xenu, the leader of some Galactic Confederation - aided by evil psychiatrists - gathered up all the people on all the worlds in this confederation (hundreds of billions on each, apparently) because of 'overcrowding' and decided to exterminate them. So he flew them (in space ships that look exactly like jumbo jets) to earth, where he put them around volcanoes and blew them up. Then he took all their souls and made them watch massive cinema screens (all hundreds of billions of them) to 'implant' them with religion, etc. These souls are called Thetans and are attached to our own souls, and only through Dianetics (L. Ron Hubbard's pseudoscience) and hefty fees can we free ourselves of these Thetans, which are responsible for all our psychological problems and neuroses.

That's roughly what Scientologists believe - I'm not making it up. They were in a court case a while back over copyright infringement and this was all revealed in private documents. Only they don't tell recruits all that crazy coo-coo stuff until they've reached a search 'Operating Thetan level,' by which point they've forked out tens of thousands of dollars and have been thoroughly brainwashed.

These people believe that psychologists and psychological medicine is evil. They use fake machines called 'E-meters' attached to people's hands to read how badly they're infected by Thetans. They have millions upon millions of dollars - as well as a ship on which their highest-level religious activities occur. They've got a 'Fair game' policy under which it's okay to harrass and attack anyone who hinders the progress of Scientology. They've been caught burgling government offices numerous times - and I think they're illegal in Germany.

Altogether, a pretty silly, dangerous cult. I feel sorry for Tom Cruise - apparently he tried to back out of it a few years ago and they pressured him into staying. The sad thing is, he's probably got so used to blaming 'Thetans' for every little neurotic moment that he's convinced he has deep-seated problems only Scientology can fix. In actuality, he's fine - he just needs to take a break away from it all, read a few books and get his head straight.

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If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.
-- Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)

scientology is not a religion its a money making scam.

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echo the sound of silence

I believe L Ron is on record in his pre-scientology days as saying something like "If you want to get rich, invent your own religion".

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"The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head" Terry Pratchett

Repeatedly, yes.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

The (italicized) quotes provided in the OP are The Bad Astronomer's, originating in his review of War of the Worlds.

I don't presume to speak on Phil's behalf, however I must emphasize: his website operates under different parameters than the Bad Astronomy & Universe Today forum. On www.badastronomy.com , Phil speaks quite candidly and critically on a number of topics and issues which fall outside the scope of this message board.

BAUT has very specific rules about the discussion of religion:

12. Politics & Religion

Due to the contentious nature of these subjects, forum participants are strongly advised to avoid discussing religious and political issues. Please don't begin or contribute to a topic that's merely going to incite or fuel a flame war.

However, the following exceptions apply:

A) Political impact upon space programs, exploration, and science.

B) Focused, polite discussion of concepts such as creationism and "intelligent design" which bear direct relevance to astronomy and science, for the purposes of conversing about and addressing misconceptions.

C) Focused, polite discussion of the difference between astronomy (including cosmology) and religion

Partisan political debate is unwelcome and should be undertaken elsewhere. The same applies to debates purely religious in nature. Likewise, proselytizing will not be allowed. In short, you are allowed to discuss politics and religion within a very limited scope where they affect space and space exploration, astronomy, and science. Nothing more. If you really really need to talk about these topics with someone, take it to email or to another bulletin board.

This forum does not allow the discussion of religion outside the above, narrow exceptions, nor is it a place to malign religions or religious adherents.

Since this may not have been clear to participants in this discussion, I will merely issue a strong warning that such a conversation about Scientology or any other religion needs to take place somewhere else. Similar comments in the past denigrating religions and people of faith have resulted in most stern disciplinary action and issuance of account suspensions, as they not only violate our forum rules concerning the discussion of religion but also the civility & decorum guidelines we've established.

Please take note and refrain from similar postings in the future.

Locked, as this has drifted significantly off-topic.