I don't want to get personal, but if it comes down to some sort of mathematical relationship, what about your cycle was out of tune, when it was out of tune?

If you're asking why was it out of tune...one time was because I had chemically interfered with the natural rhythm with birth control. After a year or so my cycles regulated, gradually moving back to alignment and I conceived. I have also watched the cycles gradually change when it wasn't a good time in my life to conceive, then gradually change back.

So you didn't conceive when you were on birth control? It's a miracle!

Oh, and the fact is, when things are calculated instead of just relying on human memory, cops and doctors don't experience higher work loads at the full moon.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

I guess I don't communicate as clearly as I thought, I'm sorry. I couldn't conceive for about a year after stopping birth control, even though I wanted to conceive because My cycles were off. They slowly came back into my normal and I conceived when my ovulation aligned with the 3rd quarter. That is my natural rhthym. Every person has their own unique cycle. Otherwise all babies would be born at the same time.

I'd really like to see the statistics. Can you point me in the right direction? But then, my doctor and every other one 20 years ago said that ear infections weren't contagious and eggs are bad for cholesterol. I knew otherwise and now they do too.

Well here's one small study. I'm sure there are others that back this up.

Conclusions quoted from study linked to below (btw I didn't realise Americans spelt behaviour like they do colour before now ):

"Discussion & Conclusions


Apparently, through our research and analysis of data, we have found that there is no correlation between criminal activity and the lunar cycle, at least not in Oxford and Hamilton. We can assume that this trend would hold true if it was tested on a larger population. More thorough, encompassing studies could be conducted on different-sized populations in different cultures in a variety of environments in order to compare with and possibly support our findings. Our results actually mirror the results of studies completed by others before us, because other scientists have found that the lunar cycle does not affect aspects of behavior such as absenteeism, agitation among nursing home residents, or anxiety, depression, and manic behavior among humans. In retrospect, it would have been surprising to find a correlation between human behavior and the lunar cycle. The question of how human behavior is affected by the lunar cycle has been studied throughout history by humankind. Our project is simply another step in this same direction to attempt to achieve a better understanding of the relationship we have with the moon."

__________________
N6MAA10816
'Forensic anthropologist! That's why no gun'
Are you a Bright?

Correlation is not the same as causality. The average length of a menstrual cycle is 28 days, but that doesn't mean the moon has any effect. All you can say is that you conceived when your cycle had the same duration or some particular phase. You have done nothing to test the cause.

But you can calculate the effect. For a 2m tall person, the acceleration difference is no more than ~35 micro-g's between your head and your toes, if you are standing up.

__________________
"I have a cunning plan that cannot fail."
S. Baldrick

Especially since the average length of the lunar cycle of phases is over 29 days.

hhEb09'1 Didn't find a major link, but a minor one is....
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...9/gen99048.htm

pete I do recall reading an article crediting a California high school teacher with the origination of the statistical correlation though, he's in good company,... John Dalton was a schoolteacher, and one of the stalwarts of spectroscopy....Balmer, Lyman, Brackett, Paschen, Pfund.

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A third rate theory forbids
A second rate theory explains after the fact
A first rate theory predicts...A. Lomonosov

Well, no. There are a lot of other factors to gestation besides date of conception. Health of the mother, health of the baby, stress levels of the mother, genetic history, etc. (Drugs, including alcohol and tobacco, are likely to cause premature babies, for example.) Even if the cycle of every single woman on Earth were synchronized, doctors and midwives would still be awakened in the middle of the night all month long.

And, yes, it can take time after going off birth control to get pregnant. Any clinician at Planned Parenthood could tell you that.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

I guess I don't understand the "logic" used to collect unbiased facts in the scientific community. First of all in the study you linked, Roy (thank you), they started with a bias by only requesting the crimes from 4 days each month. This cuts out the chance that they may have seen something significant at any other time during the month. What if the number of crimes midway between each quarter was significantly lower than each quarter day. Yes, with one of the two towns data was collected from, they took the few days proceeding and following each quarter but it was a very small town and it doesn't sound like they did the same with the other since it doesn't say that town gave them more than what they asked for, 4 days each month. Right there the test is biased. It should have contained all the data to look for repeated patterns, an certainly not different data from each town.

Then they took out any crime that had alcohol involved. That is assuming the alcohol alone is the cause rather than allowing for the possibility that the blood is thinner and more easily moved as normal water, oceans or lakes are with the pull of the Moon. We all know, I'm sure, that alcohol decreases our inhibitions making it easier to act on pure raw animal instinct. Isn't that what this test is about?

Swansont, what would you like me to do to "test" the cause. Yes, the average woman's cycle is 28 days but each woman has their own natural cycle, some being 29, 30. And each has their own fertile time, that when healthy and unobstructed correlates to a certain time of the lunar phase, mine with the 3rd quarter. It just so happens that that is opposite of when I was born. I have also noticed with those few I know who set their own daily schedule of rising and setting (not real easy for most since school and job dictate the daily routine), when fairly healthy, tend to rise at the same time of day that they were born. If you could collect enough unbiased data, how would you test this? Wouldn't observation be valid?

hhEb, you're right, 29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes. But that doesn't mean that the female cycle is not connected to the lunar cycle. I forget which species, but I remember reading the discovery that a certain sea life always progagates at a certain time in sync with the Moon in some way.

Gillianren, I'm not sure yet whether I am not communicating clearly or you are purposely misunderstanding me based on you own bias. We must have open minds here to have open ears. Again, I apologize if i talk funny. I was referring to cycles of fertility and the fact that each person has their own normal. I was not making an issue of the fact that I couldn't conceive after coming off the pill. My point was, even though I was still following MY normal 28 day cycle, I could't conceive until that cycle once again put my fertile quarter at the 3rd quarter of the Moon, actually, I think it is 1 or two days before 3rd quarter, I'd have to check my notes.

During the days of my greenhouse propagation I originally just sowed seeds according to when I wanted them to sell, not taking into account the lunar phase. When I learned about planting according to type of plant and phase of Moon, my germination rate increased to probably 95-99%. I was blown away. I had to be more sparing in the seed I sowed because I way over produced. Annuals germinate best during 1st and 2nd quarter, perennials and biennials during 3rd quarter. And of course, sowing when Moon is transiting water signs makes a big difference. I also found that when we mow the lawn during the 4th quarter, Moon in fire sign, we mow maybe only every 3-4 weeks. Yes, I know, rainfall will have an influence too, and fertilizer, so don't even go there. I kept this in mind as I observed.

Oh, and just so you know, they say smoking causes low birth weight too. I have smoked through 7 pregnancies and each baby just got bigger and bigger, even though my body is designed for smaller than average. During the pregnancies that I wasn't under undue stress in any way and the doctor didn't interfer I delivered within a week of due.

No, you're saying you didn't. You are then making the assumption that it means you couldn't, despite the fact that a lot of women take time to conceive after coming off the Pill, regardless of when their cycle is. I personally have never been on the Pill, due to my bad memory about taking pills at the same time every day. (Other people are more likely to remember that I should take my meds!)

The fact remains that you said that, if all women had the same cycle, all births would happen at the same time, and that simply isn't true. Too many factors, including external ones, control gestation. Heck, my mother had all three of us C-section. (Narrow pelvic opening.) If there were some reason all women normally had their babies during the same week or so, I'd schedule planned C-sections for those other times, simply to lighten my load a little.

It does. You got lucky. More importantly, so did your children. I hope they'll have more sense than to gamble with the lives of their children.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Ohhh, but what determines when they can again conceive a viable fetus? One will conceive within a month or two, even while on the pill and another takes a year, actively seeking conception. If you don't keep an open mind to all the possibilities, you will miss your eureka moment.

Luck sounds REAL scientific. How do we go about testing luck? Strange thing is, all the people I know with chronic lung conditions don't smoke. One smoked 30 years before the onset of the problem. I do know one who smoked and died from lung cancer. She had an injury at work that cut into the main artery that feeds the top of that lung. Within 6 months she developed a tumor at that site. She was ready to check out anyway so let it takes its course.

Actually, hhEb09'1 very succinctly clarified the problem here. If women have cycles of different lengths, then they are not tied to the moon (in any straightforward way, like gravity). Being asynchronous is evidence against that.

And synchronous behavior does not mean gravitationally linked. I can easily see how a particular species might be more likely to behave e.g. in a way tied to the light provided by a full moon or the dark guranteed by a new moon. So even demonstrating synchronization is insufficient. In this case, showing that lights from other sources disrupting mating would demonstrate that particular link. I have a vague recollection that some sea turtles have shown this.

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"I have a cunning plan that cannot fail."
S. Baldrick

Why would they have to be have to be exactly the same length to be tied to the lunar cycles? And why does it have to be absolutely straightforward? It sounds like, from what I've read, that there is still a lot not understood about gravity and other areas of physics. So why is it impossible that there just isn't enough understood by the scientific community to see the connections I am speaking of. Perhaps, if there was more open minded research, more would be discovered.

I'm not even sure how to respond to that. If it depends on the location of the moon, due to the gravity vector, then this will change from month to month if the frequencies differ. If there is a linear (i.e. straigtforward) mechanism, the it wiould require that the moon be in the same location, i.e. in phase, which is the definition of synchronous.

And even without that objection, you'd still need a mechanism. If it's gravity, can you simulate fertility by driving somewhere, where the local g is different?

Anyway, it's your contention, so the burden of proof would be upon you to provide evidence (for which anecdotes do not qualify) to support the notion.

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"I have a cunning plan that cannot fail."
S. Baldrick

Are you kidding?

In case you're not, because the lunar cycle is exactly the same length. (Well, for a given definition. Certainly to any noticeable extent.) No matter where you are. For hundreds of years. Exactly the same length. Whereas quite a lot of women don't even have regular cycles. Of those who do (admittedly the majority), very few have cycles that are the same length as that of the Moon, so they're shifting along the lunar cycle all the time. The average woman, in fact, has a cycle that's about a day shorter than that of the Moon, so that means it only takes a little over a year for it to go from synchronizing with the full Moon to synchronizing with the new Moon.

If you're imposing your own beliefs on a thing, you don't have an open mind, whether it's because you believe in the thing or because you don't.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Gillianren, I'm sorry you're having such a hard time understanding what I am saying. I am not imposing my beliefs on anything or any one. I am simply sharing my observation over many years. Since I have spent most of my life without artificial interference I have been able to observe a very healthy individual throughout many varied circumstances. It doesn't matter that I have a cycle that is slightly shorter than the Moons. I still do not conceive unless my fertile time is within a day or two of the 3rd quarter. All it takes is a cycle or two that is 26 or 30 days to shift it back into alignment. Child birth or the cessation of breastfeeding would inevitably alter my cycles but they would vary by a day or so until they again lined up with my normal for conception. In fact during the time that my cycles were exactly 28 days my children were spaced 3 and 5 years apart. And don't forget there is more than 1 hour to conceive. In fact, with one child I spit out a second ovum 2 days after the first and conceived unexpectedly. During times I was under incredible stress they would shift. And I never got pregnant until they returned to my normal time. When my 1st marriage got close to dissolving they shifted drastically and gradually returned to normal when I remarried. I became aware of this when I started graphing my cycles to see what the visual looked like with the New and Full Moon's included. I would have to get my medical records for a few of my kids but the ones I had notes of conception are exactly what I said, conceived at the 3rd quarter. I'm 52 and have 7 sons, by the way. So I've done a little observing.

Now, I don't know what else I can say to explain this any more fully. If you're dead set against any possibility that there is something to what I am saying I'm wasting my breath trying to make it more clear. So I assume this conversation is over.

Swansont, would it be considered evidence if I gathered my medical records for the missing information along with what charting of my cycles I've done. Probably not since I don't have all of the years cycles. But it would show when I conceived which could be compared to the lunar cycle.

Could you explain "If it depends on the location of the moon, due to the gravity vector, then this will change from month to month if the frequencies differ." I'm not sure what you mean by frequencies. Did I explain it in what I said to Gillianren? I'm not really out to prove anything. I just though this was an interesting observation. And observation is the beginning of discovery, isn't it?