Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > Space and Astronomy > Conspiracy Theories
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-April-2004, 01:30 AM
Brady Yoon Brady Yoon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA USA
Posts: 2,020
Send a message via AIM to Brady Yoon
Default Did I completely screw up here...or

The question is
Quote:
The moon, which is 384,000 km away from Earth orbits us in 27.3 days. Then what is the orbital period of the Hubble Space Telescope, which is 400 km away from Earth?
I thought of using Kepler's Third Law (a^3=P^2) to solve this problem, but the units didn't seem right. First, I converted the moon's distance in astronomical units by 384,000 km/150,000,000 km, and I got a value of 2.56×10^-3. Cubing this distance, I got 1.68×10^-8. And then I took the square root of this number, which gives you the period of 1.295×10^-4 years. Multiplying that number by 8,760 (365×24), I then got 1.13 days. Is this reasoning correct. Does the Hubble Space Telescope really orbit in 1.13 days? Or am I way off? Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-April-2004, 01:46 AM
ngc3314's Avatar
ngc3314 ngc3314 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 87.5W 33.2N
Posts: 1,418
Default

Indulging in duly licensed professorial behavior - I can't quite tell what orbital radius you took for Hubble. (Hint - it's 400 km away from what?). The units are irrelevant so long as you are consistent, so if you take the Moon's orbital semimajor axis (i.e. radius) in km or Earth radii and period in days or hours, the scaled value for any other Earth orbit will follow with the same units.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-April-2004, 01:58 AM
Tobin Dax's Avatar
Tobin Dax Tobin Dax is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Kentucky
Posts: 2,518
Default

a^3=P^2 only when a is in AU, P is in years, and the object is orbiting the sun (M is 1 solar mass). Otherwise, a^3 is only proportional to P^2. So, for objects 1 and 2 orbiting the same body, (a1/a2)^3=(P1/P2)^2. Try that and see what you get.

Dax
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-April-2004, 02:10 AM
jrkeller's Avatar
jrkeller jrkeller is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Houston near the Johnson Space Center
Posts: 2,647
Default

I believe that you need to you the distance from the center of the Earth, not just the orbital altitude.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-April-2004, 02:45 AM
Glom's Avatar
Glom Glom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: University of Birmingham
Posts: 6,649
Send a message via MSN to Glom
Default

Kepler's third law was made for planetary orbits around the sun, but it can be adapted for other orbits.

Generally, T² = 4pi²/µ a³ where T is orbital period, µ is gravitational parameter (µ=GM), a is semimajor axis.
__________________
Freedom For Fission A breath of fresh Iodine-131
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-April-2004, 03:05 AM
Bob B.'s Avatar
Bob B. Bob B. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 2,090
Default

Method 1

P = SQRT[ 4 * Pi^2 * r^3 / GM ], where

P = Period (in seconds)
r = Radius of orbit (in meters), equatorial radius of Earth = 6,378,140 m
GM (Earth) = 3.986E+14 m^3/s^2

P = SQRT[ 4 * Pi^2 * (6,378,140+400,000)^3 / 3.986E+14 ] = 5,554 s = 92m:34s


Method 2

P1^2 / R1^3 = P2^2 / R2^3, or
P1 = SQRT[ P2^2 * (R1 / R2)^3 ], where

P1 = Period of #1, i.e Hubble Space Telescope
R1 = Radius of Orbit for #1, for HST R1 = 6,778 km
P2 = Period of #2, for Moon P2 = 27.3 days
R2 = Radius of Orbit for #2, for Moon R2 = 384,000 km

P1 = SQRT[ 27.3^2 * (6,778 / 384,000)^3 ] = 0.0640 days = 92m:10s


The 24 s difference between the two methods is likely due to rounding. Method 1 is the better method because it can be used to calculate the period of a satellite around any body as long a the value of GM is know.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-April-2004, 12:23 PM
Bob B.'s Avatar
Bob B. Bob B. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 2,090
Default

In my previous post I made the following comment:

Quote:
The 24 s difference between the two methods is likely due to rounding.
Although rounding may introduce a small error, I now realize that there is more to it than that. Accurate calculations of a body's orbital period take into account the mass of both bodies. In the case of a satellite, the mass of the satellite to so small in relation to that of the primary (the body being orbited) that the satellite's mass can be ignored. But in the case of the Moon, the mass of the Moon must be considered. Since the orbital period of the Moon is partly determined by it's own mass, the Moon's period cannot be used to determine the period of other orbiting bodies without introducing some error. I believe this is the reason method #2 resulting in a different answer. Method #2 can only be considered an approximation, thus I recommend the use of method #1.

Added: This Web page gives a brief introduction to orbital mechanics.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-April-2004, 01:23 PM
jfribrg jfribrg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 40N 75W mag 4.1 sky at best
Posts: 1,211
Default

It seems easier to me to just use the velocity of an object in orbit: v = sqrt(MG/r), where
M is the mass of the Earth: 5.98E24kg
G is the universal graviational constant: 6.67E-11 Nm^2/kg^2
r is the distance from hubble to the center of the Earth in meters. I think it is about 7068 km or 7.068E7m.

This gives a velocity of 7565 m/s. Assuming a circular orbit, a radius of 7068km translates to a circumference of about 43,781,000 m , so it would take 5787 seconds, or 96 minutes to complete one orbit.

If you need more accuracy than that, you would have to take not only the eccentricity of Hubble's orbit into account, but also the gravitational pull of the moon, the oblateness of the earth, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-April-2004, 01:34 PM
Bob B.'s Avatar
Bob B. Bob B. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 2,090
Default

jfribrg,

What you just did is take 2*Pi*r and divided by SQRT[GM/r], or

P = 2 * Pi * r / SQRT[ GM / r ]

= SQRT[ (2 * Pi * r)^2 / (GM / r) ]

= SQRT[ 4 * Pi^2 * r^2 / (GM / r) ]

= SQRT[ 4 * Pi^2 * r^3 / GM ]

which is exactly the equation I gave earlier.

BTW, G and M are often given as the product GM. For Earth GM = 3.986E+14 m^3/s^2
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06-April-2004, 03:20 AM
JohnOwens JohnOwens is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Vail, AZ, USA
Posts: 1,086
Send a message via AIM to JohnOwens Send a message via Yahoo to JohnOwens
Default Re: Did I completely screw up here...or

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brady Yoon
Cubing this distance, I got 1.68×10^-8. And then I took the square root of this number, which gives you the period of 1.295×10^-4 years. Multiplying that number by 8,760 (365×24), I then got 1.13 days.
Another little mistake (with big results!) here: I believe you meant to say
Quote:
Multiplying that number by 8,760 (365×24), I then got 1.13 hours.
__________________
GhiaPet Home Page
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-April-2004, 04:04 AM
Brady Yoon Brady Yoon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA USA
Posts: 2,020
Send a message via AIM to Brady Yoon
Default

Quote:
5. What would happen to both the daylight side and night side if the sun was suddenly replaced by a million solar mass O star?
Is this answer pretty close?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-April-2004, 01:43 PM
Bob B.'s Avatar
Bob B. Bob B. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 2,090
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brady Yoon
Quote:
5. What would happen to both the daylight side and night side if the sun was suddenly replaced by a million solar mass O star?
Is this answer pretty close?
I don't understand. What are you trying to ask here?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.0.0
©  2006 Bad Astronomy and Universe Today