Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > Space and Astronomy > Conspiracy Theories
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 07-May-2004, 09:47 PM
Parrothead's Avatar
Parrothead Parrothead is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Margaritaville
Posts: 1,786
Default

Quote:
The HB arguments were the usual collection - infilled shadows, light on the shadow side of the flag, waving flag, cameras impossible to use with spacesuit gloves on, no dust displaced under the LM (Rene backed away from his crater argument, but wait 'til you see his demo with a leaf blower!! etc. Jay says there should be a piece about fiducials but if it was included, I missed it.
Ok I did see this, as the leaf blower part I remember seeing.

Quote:
Go Flames go!
Now that the Leafs are out and I'll have to wait until next season, if there is one, to cheer on the Leafs again (only saving grace being Chicago has gone longer without a Cup victory, although they have at least made the finals since their last Stanley Cup). I will agree GO FLAMES GO!
__________________
" The universe is running away
I heard it on the news just the other day
There's this new stuff called dark energy
We can't measure and we can't see..." - from Jimmy Buffett's What if the hokey pokey is all it really is about?
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 07-May-2004, 10:15 PM
JayUtah's Avatar
JayUtah JayUtah is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,981
Default

We shot a lot of stuff, but I'm not sure what they ended up using. We did some demos with an actual Apollo Hasselblad, showing how it had been modified for use in space. I did some narration and then we shot the astronaut-actor manipulating the controls while wearing space suit gloves.

That Hasselblad was sadly no longer functional, so we had Hasselblad modify the current descendent of the EL/500 to remove the viewfinder and add the reseau plate. We shot a roll or two of Ektachrome 160 film in that camera to show that the fiducials indeed bleed away without too much effort. It also showed that someone could aim a Hasselblad without a viewfinder. (It's really not that hard.) If they didn't include that, I'll be disappointed. But it probably won't be too hard to get a copy of that film roll to use at Clavius.

We shot the astronaut-actor running across the desert floor, with the aim of slowing it down to show how it would really look to try to simulate low gravity by altering the film rate. Unfortunately I was unable to convince the director to confound running with fine motor movement to demonstrate how altering the time base doesn't work.

We shot a segment with the astronaut's visor clearly reflecting the film crew, so that you'd see how difficult it is to film with highly reflective objects in the frame. (Hollywood is much more attuned to that problem now that it was in the 1960s.)

We shot a segment showing the difference between shadow and shade, which explains why Aldrin can be lit up as he descends the lunar module ladder, but the ground underneath him can be pitch black. This, I believe, made it into the final cut. I'm glad, because it's the opportunity I've been waiting for to explain -- with examples -- clearly where the light is going and where it's coming from.

We also shot a number of scenes with the flag, showing how the lighting works on nylon. What they probably didn't show was the flag blowing across the desert. All of my experiments with flags have been done indoors, except for the sunlighting pictures. Working with the flag outdoors convinces me that if the Apollo downlinks had been shot outside, the flag never should have been still.

I took several digital photographs to illustrate many of the principles that apply to lunar surface photography. I granted publication rights for about 100 photos to them, so it will be nice to see how many of them were used. Now that the show has aired, I can show the photographs on Clavius, regardless of whether they were aired.

This is one of my favorites: the real explanation behind Una Ronald's Coke bottle. http://www.clavius.org/img/ollie-coke.jpg
__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 07-May-2004, 10:33 PM
kucharek's Avatar
kucharek kucharek is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany, Old Europe
Posts: 4,052
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayUtah
This is one of my favorites: the real explanation behind Una Ronald's Coke bottle. http://www.clavius.org/img/ollie-coke.jpg
Isn't that an anachronism? Looks to me like a PET bottle, which I guess wasn't around 35 years ago.

Harald 8)
__________________
"Flying in space is risky business, but just staying on this planet is risky business too." - John Young, astronaut
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 07-May-2004, 10:44 PM
JayUtah's Avatar
JayUtah JayUtah is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,981
Default

Nor was preformulated vanilla Coca-Cola. I guess both were developed as part of Apollo.
__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 07-May-2004, 10:52 PM
kucharek's Avatar
kucharek kucharek is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany, Old Europe
Posts: 4,052
Default

Oh, yes. How goes the old saying: "Spaceflight is a spin-off of the Teflon pan."

Harald
__________________
"Flying in space is risky business, but just staying on this planet is risky business too." - John Young, astronaut
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 07-May-2004, 11:00 PM
JayUtah's Avatar
JayUtah JayUtah is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,981
Default

Everything spins off a Teflon pan. That's why we buy them. :-)
__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 24-June-2004, 08:11 PM
LunarOrbit's Avatar
LunarOrbit LunarOrbit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 311
Default

Just a reminder that Jay's anti-Moon hoax program will be re-aired on the Discovery Channel (in Canada) today at 6pm Eastern time.

Jay:

Have you had the opportunity to watch it yet? I'll be recording it (since I will be at work) and would be willing to send you a copy, if you want one.



Kel
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 24-June-2004, 08:27 PM
R.A.F.'s Avatar
R.A.F. R.A.F. is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LunarOrbit
Jay:

...I'll be recording it...and would be willing to send you a copy, if you want one.
Well I hope you'll have enough copies for the entire class...ah...I mean board!

I'm just kidding.
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 24-June-2004, 08:30 PM
LunarOrbit's Avatar
LunarOrbit LunarOrbit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 311
Default

Well I could post it on my website but I am concerned about two things... copyright violations and my bandwidth. Maybe I could post a short clip, rather than the entire program.
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 10-July-2004, 09:01 AM
PhantomWolf's Avatar
PhantomWolf PhantomWolf is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lost Deimos Moon Base
Posts: 5,663
Send a message via ICQ to PhantomWolf Send a message via AIM to PhantomWolf Send a message via MSN to PhantomWolf Send a message via Yahoo to PhantomWolf
Default

Woohoo. "The Truth Behind the Moon Landings" is going to be showing in New Zealand on Prime at 8:35pm, Sunday 18th July. I just hope the weather behaves as it is on UHF and I only have a VHF ariel meaning that on a bad day it makes watching hard. Still, should be good.
__________________
Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran
Reply With Quote
  #41 (permalink)  
Old 10-July-2004, 01:09 PM
Kiwi Kiwi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 501
Default

Thanks for that, PhantomWolf. Woohoo too! =D>

I would have missed it without you posting that as I don't get Prime well where I live, so don't read its listings. Will try to find someone who can tape it for me. Pity it's not on TV3, which showed the Fox programme twice. Still, if we advertise it on bulletin boards perhaps enough people will see it.

Edited to add: Here are Jay Utah's comments about his part in the programme.
Reply With Quote
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 11-July-2004, 03:29 AM
Kiwi Kiwi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 501
Default

I have posted some details on a New Zealand Message Board.

These threads are not archived and vanish into cyber space a few days after the last post.
Reply With Quote
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 11-July-2004, 08:25 AM
PhantomWolf's Avatar
PhantomWolf PhantomWolf is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lost Deimos Moon Base
Posts: 5,663
Send a message via ICQ to PhantomWolf Send a message via AIM to PhantomWolf Send a message via MSN to PhantomWolf Send a message via Yahoo to PhantomWolf
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi
I have posted some details on a New Zealand Message Board.

These threads are not archived and vanish into cyber space a few days after the last post.
I posted on SmileCity already, and it manged to bring out few HB's.

this was an interesting claim:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroflight from SmileCity.co.nz
Of course it was a freaking hoax. Successive American administrations right throughout last century were thugs, murderers, cheats and liars. If they did land there once, why did they never go back. You would think they would be killing themselves to get into the ice caps (Yes, there are ice caps on the moon), because of what might be frozen beneath them.

Also, it was many years later before it was discovered the moon had ice at its poles. If the yanks had really been there, they would have discovered that little fact then, wouldn't they, seeing as they were supposed to be so close on the fly by.
__________________
Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran
Reply With Quote
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 11-July-2004, 09:38 AM
Kiwi Kiwi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 501
Default

Yep, some people really need that programme next Sunday night. My thread ended up rather a disaster. One apparently genuine HB and some stunningly stupid behaviour from at least two other posters. One didn't even take the time to read my posts or study the links I provided, fooled around, and when I suggested he desist accused me of being a conspiracy believer with a low IQ. Simply "assumed" that's what I am.

[Off-topic vent]It's hard to believe! Back in the 1950s I saw quite a lot of dogmatic, ignorant Victorians who regularly misinterpreted what people said or wrote, and made up my mind (aged about 9) that I would do everything in my power to not end up like them. So far, so good (I think), but I'm astonished that over 45 years later there are young people around who behave just the same as those silly old fools I observed back then. Don't people observe such things and decide that they must break the cycle and do better?[/Off-topic vent]

PhantomWolf, please see this thread.
Reply With Quote
  #45 (permalink)  
Old 11-July-2004, 04:17 PM
Maksutov's Avatar
Maksutov Maksutov is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fifth corner of the Earth
Posts: 16,731
Default Re: Jay Utah=celebrity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi
[edit]

[Off-topic vent]It's hard to believe! Back in the 1950s I saw quite a lot of dogmatic, ignorant Victorians who regularly misinterpreted what people said or wrote, and made up my mind (aged about 9) that I would do everything in my power to not end up like them. So far, so good (I think), but I'm astonished that over 45 years later there are young people around who behave just the same as those silly old fools I observed back then. Don't people observe such things and decide that they must break the cycle and do better?[/Off-topic vent][edit]
Thought you might like to know you're not the only one that made a decision like that, at about that age and time (1950s), and for the same reasons. No regrets, other than perhaps about some of the side effects of having the tendency not to fit into mainstream society that well. :wink:

Unfortunate that the Victorian mindset appears to be self-regenerating. Chalk it up for the most part to certain institutions in our culture that would rather have conformity than truth and free-thinking people.

:roll:
__________________
A person's name, or a mark representing it, as signed personally or by deputy, as in subscribing a letter or other document.
Reply With Quote
  #46 (permalink)  
Old 11-July-2004, 08:34 PM
cable cable is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 556
Default Re: Jay Utah=celebrity

Hi Jay,

I don't beleive this story.
Of course you've never made any film for TV.
It's just another conspiracy within the lunar conspiracy.
__________________
Knowledge is Success ...............
Reply With Quote
  #47 (permalink)  
Old 11-July-2004, 11:55 PM
JayUtah's Avatar
JayUtah JayUtah is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,981
Default

Well, the pictures I took have the same anomalies as the Apollo photos...
__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base
Reply With Quote
  #48 (permalink)  
Old 12-July-2004, 07:08 PM
jaydeehess's Avatar
jaydeehess jaydeehess is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada, true north strong and free
Posts: 492
Send a message via MSN to jaydeehess
Default

Well I saw the title "The Truth About the Moonlandings" and stupidly thought it was another HB ranting. I was not in the mood to be disgusted by purile ravings of the technological knowledge challenged and watched something else. Now I feel stupid!!!!!! :-? .

Now Discovery Canada doesn't seem to list it anymore. Hopefully TLC will pick it up and I'll see it there.
__________________
"Man has always found it easier to sacrifice his life than learn the multiplication table." - Somerset Maugham
Reply With Quote
  #49 (permalink)  
Old 12-July-2004, 08:30 PM
Irishman Irishman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,466
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroflight from SmileCity.co.nz
Of course it was a freaking hoax. Successive American administrations right throughout last century were thugs, murderers, cheats and liars. If they did land there once, why did they never go back. You would think they would be killing themselves to get into the ice caps (Yes, there are ice caps on the moon), because of what might be frozen beneath them.

Also, it was many years later before it was discovered the moon had ice at its poles. If the yanks had really been there, they would have discovered that little fact then, wouldn't they, seeing as they were supposed to be so close on the fly by.
First, ice is not proven, only suspected. Second, the reason we didn't discover it at the time is that the Apollo missions did not visit nor orbit the poles. All landings were equitorial or near equitorial. So just because we were a heck of a lot closer to the moon doesn't mean we were anywhere near the poles. Kinda like flying from California to Australia and back, then wondering why you didn't visit New Zealand.
Reply With Quote
  #50 (permalink)  
Old 12-July-2004, 10:07 PM
jaydeehess's Avatar
jaydeehess jaydeehess is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada, true north strong and free
Posts: 492
Send a message via MSN to jaydeehess
Default

Quote:
Kinda like flyi