Apollo's Lunar Leftovers

A brief (but interesting) article from NASA's website.

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In the progress of this discussion I shall endeavor to give a satisfactory answer to all the objections which shall have made their appearance, that may seem to have any claim to your attention.

Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 1

Material scientists and astrophysicists may be happy to get their hands on stuff that was on the moon for 40+ years under determinable conditions.
A few geology hammers may be of use, though, AFAIK, their rubber-coated grips were pretty worn out after three days of use due to the abrasive properties of the lunar dust.

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"Flying in space is risky business, but just staying on this planet is risky business too." - John Young, astronaut

In the article Starr says that helmets and gloves could be reused. How could they have thrown their helmets and gloves away? They would have had to wear them while the lm was depressurized.

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I'm not a scientist, but I play one on the internet.
http://www.rrac.org

By "helmets" and "gloves" are mean the LEVA helmet assembly and the over-gloves. Neither of these was pressurized. The gauntlets fit over the inner neoprene pressure garment gloves and the LEVA fit over the "fishbowl" pressurized helmet.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

Just goes to prove that humans are a bunch of litterbugs.

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Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

I don't think I would want to base the success of a lunar mission on using any of the abandoned gear. Jump starting one of the rovers would be fun, but I wouldn't want to count on getting one started.

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I'm not a scientist, but I play one on the internet.
http://www.rrac.org

No, you would never re-use gear that's in an unknown condition. I'm sure the polymers would be seriously weakened by now. And the articulated parts may not articulate well anymore.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

I'd rather nobody touched the Apollo equipment; when I visit the Sea of Tranquility Museum in 2050 it had better still be prestine.

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Do try not to take me too seriously.

This question is being discussed at Ed Mitchell's forum. I'll say here what I said there, only in different words so that you won't be bored reading both.

I too want to see Tranquility Base in its pristine condition. Unfortunately I doubt that will happen. The public won't wait for it to be cheap and easy. They'll want artifacts long before then. The logical comparison is made to the Titanic wreck site. It can be visited now, but still only by the privileged. And although it's not legal to retrieve artifacts, they have been retrieved. The officially-sanctioned artifact exhibit -- material from the debris field and not from the hulls -- is in Salt Lake now until the end of the year. I've seen it; it's breathtaking and astounding. I had thought I would be drawn more to the engineering artifacts: shafts from the watertight doors (bent under tremendous force), fragments of control panels, fitted wrenches, etc. I was, but I underestimated the force and impact of the more human artifacts: clothing, incidental items, menus, furniture. The exhibit is remarkably reverent and deeply moving.

We humans experience our history palpably via objects from the past. It is one thing to hear stories and to see photographs and other objective records. But a true connection is made only when our senses are applied to the objects of the past in the same way that the inhabitants of the past experienced them. This is why we have museums, and a black market in historical treasures.

I have had a number of personal experiences with bits of Apollo history. I've held and operated the cameras. I've worked a command module hatch. I've pressed the buttons on a DSKY. All these and many more connect me with the Apollo program in a way that transcends hearing or reading the stories or looking at the photographs. How else would you know that the Hasselblad cameras are heavy, that the command module hatch is comfortingly heavy, that the DKSY buttons are surprisingly hard to push? Not that these things are important to know in any universal sense. But knowing them helps you become those historical figures and to share in their world. I know that the camera controls I operated were also worked by Pete Conrad and Al Bean, and that they had to come to terms with how they worked the same way I did.

An Apollo space glove has a particular smell. Not necessarily from the residue of its occupant, but from the natural chemical function of its constituent parts. Chromel-R smells a certain way, as does the synthetic rubber in the fingertips. Who would have thought to smell a space glove? But this and other sensory experiences were part of the lives of people who worked on Apollo. It is not often the straightforward, expected aspects of an artifact that create that connection with the past, but the accidental ones.

But the conservator's art is not to be neglected either. There is a natural dilemma between preserving an artifact for future generations and "using" the artifact for its intended purpose. We always have to walk a fine line between preventing the decay of an artifact and thus losing it forever, and preventing the kind of experience that we keep it around for. I'm not saying everyone should get to push the buttons on the surviving DSKY's. But conservation is not an end unto itself. Keeping the stuff around is pointless unless it can be used to create the connection to the past.

While living abroad I befriended the head conservator of the basilica of St. Nicola in Bari, Italy. At that time he was deeply involved in restoring the delicate stone carvings around the portals. After a brief tutorial, he allowed me to repair two inches of the border myself, with his guidance. Now strictly from the conservationist's standpoint that's alarming. Who in his right mind would allow a novice to work on a 900-year-old church? The answer is that a smart conservator would. My life is now intertwined with that of the church. And while my contribution to its preservation amounts to a miniscule fragment of its long and illustrious history, it is nevertheless significant to me. That spot, twelve feet up the left side of the south portal, is "mine" and will be forever. Because I have that connection, I am more likely to support further preservation and care of the church. And that is the conservator's job. It isn't merely to apply cement and marble dust. It's to create the emotional desire to preserve and experience these objects.

All this is to justify my assertion that the human race will not wait until it can be brought to the moon. As soon as humans revisit Tranquility Base, they will bring back objects that the rest of the earthbound race can admire. The Smithsonian will one day have, in a display case, the discarded PLSS backpacks so that visitors can not only share in the voyage of Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, but also in the subsequent voyage that retrieved the weathered items. A select few will be allowed to see and touch -- and smell -- the artifacts with their own senses. It will be up to them to try to convey their feelings to those of us who are not so fortunate. That's the compromise between tactile experiences and conservation.

I'm sure the descent stage will stay there, as well as the EASEP modules. A Tranquility Base museum is inevitable, protecting the site in as much fidelity as can be imagined. But I'm afraid the plundering of the site for things to bring back is just as inevitable.

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"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base

I've enjoyed reading all the posts here after a day of reading all the moon hoax sites(I suppose I can't recover that lost time?). The tone of this particlar post struck me enough to register; it's very good writing(oh, I'm going to poke fun)for an engineer. I thought of this while I was recently at JFK Space Center-the bus drivers kept reminding everybody to go touch the moon rock in the Saturn V building and of course I had to see this little smooth, black rock and touch it (I guess the hoaxsters would say I touched something I could find in my back yard). The JFK Space Center ignited interest in past space programs and current programs in a way seeing Rome when I was sixteen brought my Western Civ books to life, and I touched everything I could get my hands on then too.

Jay is right, the need to preserve artifacts from plunderers who would sell them to people who might covet them from the public is necessary, but I don't see that being a problem with the moon leftovers. It would be a choice to retrieve those things for scientific purposes, the novelty of it and PR. I would prefer that all be left alone, sort of like leaving a message in a bottle for future lunar landers, but well, I guess we can cross that bridge when we get there, if we ever do again.

I am curious as to how easy it would be to find all the stuff from various missions. And yes, a part of me thinks we are terrible litterbugs--we've littered the oceans, we've littered Mt. Everest, and littered the moon. What's litter today is somebody's treasure tomorrow, I suppose.

I would think it should be pretty easy. I mean, we know the coordinates of the landings, and it's not like there are winds to blow things away or cover them with dirt, or rains and water to wash them away, or animals to nest in them and otherwise destroy them. I'm not sure how much corrosion they're succeptible to. UV will be a factor on any synthetics - like the Nylon flags are probably dust by now. I imagine go to the locations and follow the tracks, and the mapped plans. There are probably a handful of items that would be more difficult to locate - like the golf balls and Ed Mitchell's hammer. These were purposefully thrown or launched for distance, and precise coordinates are not likely. But a bit of effort could likely turn them up, too.

Probably you confuse this with Jack Schmitt's hammer? Ed Mitchell used the SWC pole as a javelin, which, and a golfball, can easily be lcated in this image taken after the second EVA through the window of the LM.

Harald

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"Flying in space is risky business, but just staying on this planet is risky business too." - John Young, astronaut

since it is so expensive to get mass out of Earth's gravity well, I could see future explorers recycling metals from previous Moon and Mars missions.

Probably easier to grab some aluminum off a lander than to set up a smelter and mine.

It would present a somewhat limited and widely dispersed supply of raw material though. You are still going to need something to melt and mold the old stuff and a vehicle of some sort that can go hundreds of miles to collect the recyclables. Might as well set up a smelter and mine anything that is close by.

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"Man has always found it easier to sacrifice his life than learn the multiplication table." - Somerset Maugham

A very spooky thrill, to say the least...

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"If a tree is cut down in the rainforest, and is used to make paper to print a book, and the book is really bad, and there's nobody that will read it, do you still hear a sucking sound?"
Charlie in Dayton, A.AsC.

Eugene Cernan said that if he'd have a chance he'd go back to the Apollo 17 landing site with a set of fresh batteries for their Rover and it would be good for another mind blowing ride 8)

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The Great French Canadian Escaped Mental Patient

Charlie in Dayton wrote:
Gee, good photo, I didn't even think to have someone take my picture(I went alone). I have to say I was disappointed that the rock was so small--I was expecting something more substantial.

Off the subject, my pictures were pretty standard fare, but I like that you can be under the Saturn V rocket, as opposed to the one at NASA Houston. This is some serious wiring!

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The perception of the comic is a tie of sympathy with other men, a pledge of sanity. We must learn by laughter as well as by tears and terror. ~ R. W. Emerson

DOH!

Grendl,

(hops into time machine, set for July 12, 2004)

Welcome to the BABB!

Good to see another person from Houston here. This is a little belated, but the need was still there. 8)

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