Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > Space and Astronomy > Conspiracy Theories
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2004, 05:06 AM
Daryl71 Daryl71 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 245
Default Apollo Lunar Module Operations Handbook (56k no!)

http://www.btinternet.com/~ursine/LMhandbook.pdf (Warning: 37 megabyte PDF file)
Starting today at 0800 hours, all hoax believers will be evacuated to temporary internment camps for re-eductation duties. You will be required to study this entire document and hand in your comprehensive point-by-point refutation by Thursday, September 21st.
Seriously, though. I'd really love to read a woo-woo "de-bunking" of this training manual.
Edit: Somebody please tell the guy who scanned this that it's really difficult to read improperly cropped block diagrams. :roll:
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2004, 08:30 AM
Cylinder's Avatar
Cylinder Cylinder is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 1,256
Default

Thanks for the link. Yet another item to place on my reading list...
__________________
In the progress of this discussion I shall endeavor to give a satisfactory answer to all the objections which shall have made their appearance, that may seem to have any claim to your attention.

Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 1
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2004, 01:18 PM
JayUtah's Avatar
JayUtah JayUtah is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,882
Default

And if anyone knows the whereabouts -- digital or print -- of the other parts to this documents, please let us know.
__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2004, 01:55 PM
Cylinder's Avatar
Cylinder Cylinder is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 1,256
Default

What parts are missing?
__________________
In the progress of this discussion I shall endeavor to give a satisfactory answer to all the objections which shall have made their appearance, that may seem to have any claim to your attention.

Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 1
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2004, 04:36 PM
JayUtah's Avatar
JayUtah JayUtah is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,882
Default

According to Rick Sternbach, the 804-page document is merely one part of volume 1. Volume 1 itself runs to several thousand pages, and there is no sign of volume 2.
__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2004, 06:47 PM
johnwitts johnwitts is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,266
Default

They really didn't need to fly to the Moon. They could have just have stacked up that one document alone and climbed there.
__________________
Things are only impossible until they're not!-Captain Jean-Luc Picard

Admin of the new and very much improved Apollohoax forum
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2004, 07:22 PM
lyford's Avatar
lyford lyford is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 532
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayUtah
According to Rick Sternbach, the 804-page document is merely one part of volume 1. Volume 1 itself runs to several thousand pages, and there is no sign of volume 2.
The landing was obviously a fake, since in the 60's NASA did not have the word processing technology that would be necessary to produce such a document. Kinko's would not be invented until 1970, after Apollo 11! AHA!
__________________
Lyford Rome
"Zis is not nuts, zis is super-nuts!"
Mathematician Richard Courant on viewing an Orion test
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2004, 08:09 PM
SiriMurthy SiriMurthy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Kansas City, KS
Posts: 390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyford
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayUtah
According to Rick Sternbach, the 804-page document is merely one part of volume 1. Volume 1 itself runs to several thousand pages, and there is no sign of volume 2.
The landing was obviously a fake, since in the 60's NASA did not have the word processing technology that would be necessary to produce such a document. Kinko's would not be invented until 1970, after Apollo 11! AHA!
Brilliant! =D>
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2004, 08:26 PM
JayUtah's Avatar
JayUtah JayUtah is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,882
Default

If you've never worked on a project whose operations handbook won't fit into the trunk of your car, you've let the best in life pass you by.
__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2004, 08:41 PM
lyford's Avatar
lyford lyford is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 532
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayUtah
If you've never worked on a project whose operations handbook won't fit into the trunk of your car, you've let the best in life pass you by.
Let's see - are you talking about a 1960's trunk? Ee gads man!

That's a lot of operations handbook!
"Thank you for purchasing your new ThingaMaBob. Please read this manual fully before using to ensure years of enjoyment."
__________________
Lyford Rome
"Zis is not nuts, zis is super-nuts!"
Mathematician Richard Courant on viewing an Orion test
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2004, 08:51 PM
sts60 sts60 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,017
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwitts
They really didn't need to fly to the Moon. They could have just have stacked up that one document alone and climbed there.
It's a rule in the space field that you're not ready to fly until the mass of your paperwork exceeds the mass of your spacecraft.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2004, 08:58 PM
kucharek's Avatar
kucharek kucharek is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany, Old Europe
Posts: 4,052
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sts60
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwitts
They really didn't need to fly to the Moon. They could have just have stacked up that one document alone and climbed there.
It's a rule in the space field that you're not ready to fly until the mass of your paperwork exceeds the mass of your spacecraft.
IIRC, that's a phrase coined by Wernher von Braun.

Harald
__________________
"Flying in space is risky business, but just staying on this planet is risky business too." - John Young, astronaut
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2004, 11:22 PM
JayUtah's Avatar
JayUtah JayUtah is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,882
Default

That's been a common phrase in engineering for a very long time.

Part of the engineering dilemma these days is that we're creating systems so complex that not only do the instructions not fit into your car, they won't fit into your brain either. "Operator error" in many cases means that the system exhibited behavior that the operator couldn't fully comprehend. Systems are getting too complex to be fully grasped by even a highly-trained and astute human mind.
__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-September-2004, 11:55 PM
johnwitts johnwitts is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,266
Default

We've got a couple of microwave ovens at school. One is fancy and expensive, and one isn't. They both have the same power output, so both cook the food as fast.

The expensive one has a clock, and a touch pad and LED display. When you plug it in, you have to set the clock. Otherwise it doesn't work. This task isn't at all intuitive. It's one of those where you have to press and hold some unrelated button for 5 seconds, then punch in the time. We have to set this every time we want to use it as, being a school, we turn the power off when we've finished to stop the kids microwaving CDs or each other. Then you set the power. Another 3 button presses. Then the time. Beep beep beep beep. Then START. But what if you want to increase the time? Or lower the power? While it's going? Forget it. Press cancel and start again.

The cheaper one? Two knobs. One for power, one for time. The Power and the Time are painted round the knobs and there's a little arrow on each. Put food in, close door, turn knob and we're off. Oops, power is set to defrost and we want high. No problem, turn it up as it's going. Not plugged in? Plug it in and it starts up with the settings on the dial.

Guess which one we use?
__________________
Things are only impossible until they're not!-Captain Jean-Luc Picard

Admin of the new and very much improved Apollohoax forum
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 08-September-2004, 12:12 AM
AGN Fuel's Avatar
AGN Fuel AGN Fuel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: The beautiful Central Coast, NSW
Posts: 2,263
Default

A bit of a tangent, but it's interesting you should say that....an article appeared in the SMH just this morning, describing the findings of the psychology experiments at Stanford & Columbia Unis. It makes findings about a human preference for more choice, but an inability to cope with it!


(edited to remove a url that led to a registration screen - sorry! ops: )
__________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-September-2004, 12:36 AM
Maksutov's Avatar
Maksutov Maksutov is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fifth corner of the Earth
Posts: 16,731
Default Re: Apollo Lunar Module Operations Handbook (56k no!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sts60
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwitts
They really didn't need to fly to the Moon. They could have just have stacked up that one document alone and climbed there.
It's a rule in the space field that you're not ready to fly until the mass of your paperwork exceeds the mass of your spacecraft.
That was a big file; it took five minutes to download!

Those folks in the space field have always had it easy! Back in my Naval Nuclear days, when we finished a power unit, three rail cars were necessary to deliver it to the shipyard: one flatbed for the power unit in the shipping container, and two full-sized boxcars for the certification paperwork. 8-[
__________________
A person's name, or a mark representing it, as signed personally or by deputy, as in subscribing a letter or other document.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-September-2004, 01:01 AM
Maksutov's Avatar
Maksutov Maksutov is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fifth corner of the Earth
Posts: 16,731
Default Re: Apollo Lunar Module Operations Handbook (56k no!)

I've always been suspicious of manuals and other documents that list the first of April as their publication or revision dates. If the organization is big enough, you know there's got to be at least one clown in there somewhere. And, based on the technical writers I've known, they would be among the usual suspects. For example, consider Bill Kaysing.
__________________
A person's name, or a mark representing it, as signed personally or by deputy, as in subscribing a letter or other document.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-September-2004, 05:22 AM
DataCable DataCable is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 439
Default

Kewl, I've just found my new wallpaper! No, not for Windows... for my house \/
__________________
"Earth diameter is 7,900 miles, and Moon diameter is 2,160 miles. It takes on average 90 minutes to complete one Earth orbit, so one Moon orbit should take roughly 25 minutes." - Sam "NasaScam" Colby

Bearer of the highly coveted "I found Venus in nine Apollo photos" sweatsocks.

DataCable^2008 A+
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 08-September-2004, 11:30 AM
Cylinder's Avatar
Cylinder Cylinder is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 1,256
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayUtah
According to Rick Sternbach, the 804-page document is merely one part of volume 1. Volume 1 itself runs to several thousand pages, and there is no sign of volume 2.
A quick Copernic search brings up a few citations to LM790-3-LM, such as page 7 of NASA's REPORT OF APOLLO 13 REVIEW BOARD.

The NASA Center for Aerospace Information has the following listing for LMA790-1, Lunar excursion module familiarization manual:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CASI
TITLE: Lunar excursion module familiarization manual
Document ID: 19730060786 N (73N70028) File Series: NASA Technical Reports
Report Number: NASA-CR-129890 LMA790-1 LMA790-01001C
Sales Agency & Price: CASI Hardcopy A07 CASI Microfiche A02
Authors: (Author(s) Not Available)
Published: Oct 15, 1965
Corporate Source: Grumman Aircraft Engineering Corp. (Bethpage, NY, United States)
Pages: 140
Contract Number: NAS9-1100
This is obviously not what you're looking for but I posted it FWIW.

I'm guessing you have done a pretty thorough search (by the tone of the post quoted above), but I'll do a little checking on my own - not that I'm pretending to be an authority though I have a some (nightmarish) experience running down some fairly obscure technical references.

Has anyone contactd the NASA History Office or maybe Northrop Grumman Media Relations. Those are the ideas that come off the top of my head, anyway.
__________________
In the progress of this discussion I shall endeavor to give a satisfactory answer to all the objections which shall have made their appearance, that may seem to have any claim to your attention.

Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 1
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 13-September-2004, 02:29 AM
Charlie in Dayton Charlie in Dayton is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ...three guesses, and the first two don't count...
Posts: 2,009
Default

"When the weight of the paperwork equals the weight of the aircraft, the mission can depart the station." -- oft-repeated and anecdotally quite accurate statement from yr obdt svt's USAF career 30+ years ago...which means a lot of trees gave their lives to get them BUFFs off the ground...
__________________
"If a tree is cut down in the rainforest, and is used to make paper to print a book, and the book is really bad, and there's nobody that will read it, do you still hear a sucking sound?"
Charlie in Dayton, A.AsC.
Reply With Quote