Hi all

This may be a stupid question but I never claimed to be smart.

One of the points many hoaxers make is that we should be able to see the Apollo landing sites and equipment using Hubble or earth based telescopes. Now I'm aware that the resolution isn't good enuf to see a LM landing stage but this got me thinking. What about all the crash sites. How many crashes have there been on the moon? I can think of the rangers and the LM ascent stages but what about the Saturn V third stages and the soviet probes. I would assume (without a shed of evidence) that we should be able to see some evidence of these impact sites. Are there new craters or debris fields?

I apologise if this question has been asked and answered previously.

Seems like a pretty good question to me. I can't answer as to how visible the crash sites would be, but I'm pretty sure the HB's would claim that crashing an S-IVB or an LM ascent stage on the moon could have been done whether astronauts had actually landed there or not.

NASA knows where all the crash sites are, but I can't tell whether you can see them from Earth.

http://history.nasa.gov/EP-95/intro.htm

You might be able to see the crash sites, but would they look any different from a crator caused by a small meteor impact?

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" We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard..." - John F. Kennedy
TheSpaceRace.com

In the visible spectrum I don't imagine the S-IVB and LM ascent stage impacts would look much different from meteor impacts. But with the multi-spectrum imaging available on your average planetary probe you can collect data which can be tweaked to reveal recent impacts. The significant impact craters we see on the lunar surface today are generally very, very old and exhibit the effects of exposure to solar wind, micrometeroids, etc. If something were to stir that up recently, that's something we would probably be able to detect.

"average planetary probe"? Darn low-bid contractors... used to be a good probe cost you <s>$20</s> $1 billion or more.

Quality... all parts "made in Japan"!

"Impact Sites of Apollo LM Ascent and SIVB Stages":

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary...lo_impact.html

I'm sure there'd also be a trace of metallic elements left over from the modules themselves visible in the spectrograpbic analysis.

So, can anyone say just how big a crater these things would have made? Holmes' link lists velocity and the energy of the impacts. It looks like the SIVB's had about 10 times the energy of the LM's, no doubt due both to higher velocity and greater mass. But I'm hopeless in using these figures to calculate out such things.

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...And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped. --Sir Bedevere

The Apollo 11 mission report indicates 2 Earth telescopes that were able to get readings from the laser range package placed there in 1969. I can't remember the names off the top of my head, but I can get it from a book at home. I think one was McDonald.
--Tommy

<a name="20020705.2:52"> page 20020705.2:52 aka D 3
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[1]Apollo 12 LM 20 November 1969 22:17:17.7 3.94 S 21.20 W
how come theres no data for A11 ?
it seams to me that 11's the main Question
{see text below}?

The Apollo 11 mission report indicates 2 Earth telescopes that were able to get readings from the laser range package placed there in 1969. I can't remember the names off the top of my head, but I can get it from a book at home. I think one was McDonald.
http://almagest.as.utexas.edu/~rlr/mlrs.html
Try that site for laser range data [I could not use it]? as it made no sence to me.

So, can anyone say just how big a crater these things would have made?

The energy of the impact is simple, but you also need data on the density and elasticity of the projectile and the ground.

Not even a ballpark figure? (i.e. would it be the size of a ballpark? [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] )

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...And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped. --Sir Bedevere

A crater on the order of 30-40 meters in diameter wouldn't surprise me, but it would depend on where it hit.

I found some NASA calcs:
http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apol...nar_Impact.htm

These are for the LM accent stage. Calculated cater size is about 10m. Energy released was about 3.25e16 ergs or about 0.8 ton of tnt.

Right you are Jay...the Apollo 14
S-IVB was crashed into the moon and left a crater 40 meters in diameter.
http://www.apolloexplorer.co.uk/books/sp-362/ch5.2.htm Hope the link works.(I'm new at this) It's Fig. 121.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: R.A.F. on 2002-07-05 12:54 ]</font>

Thanks a lot. It's about what I expected. So, as I thought, even these craters would be too small for our Earth-based scopes to pick out with any detail.

Not that that make much difference in any case. I was just curious.

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...And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped. --Sir Bedevere

Thanks RAF...thats exactly what I was looking for. I know it doesn't prove anything. I was just curious!

DogB...You are welcome...glad to help.

I think that's a healthy curiosity. How many of us wouldn't have loved to stand a safe distance away on the lunar surface and watch the various spacecraft components slam into the ground?

It would appeal not just to us space types, but to any red-blooded male between the ages of 2 and 120.

"Whoo-eee, that blowed up reeaall good!"

The same ones who watch all of those Cop chase shows on cable - the sons of those who used to go to the Saturday night figure 8 stock car races with the demolision derby afterwards! [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

<a name="20020711.3:2"> page 20020711.3:2 aka CRATER.BAS
On 2002-07-05 09:43, JayUtah wrote: To: 3:21 A.M. HUb'
So, can anyone say just how big a crater these things would have made?

The energy of the impact is simple, but you also need data on the density and elasticity of the projectile and the ground.

[/quote]
3:21 A.M. if you can come up with MASS & velocity
I can convert this to creater diameter & depth see
http://www.skypub.com/ & look for Basic programs ? CREATER.BAS

amyway i'll try to do some "MATH" on the prior
post HOWEVER: i'll first need MASS & velocity
So hoe much did it weigh empty ? 3:28 A.M. PST 2-7-11