Today I read an interesting article (http://www.space.com/missionlaunches..._020708-1.html) on Space.com concerning the Chinese space program. A large part of the article covered their plans for a moon landing somewhere around 2010.

What was interesting in the context of the American moon landings being fakes, was that it appears the Chinese are basing their lunar program on the results and data of the Apollo program. Not only do they use scientific data of the lunar environment gathered from the Apollo missions, but also technological data of how the missions were constructed.

Now, the question is, if the Apollo missions were faked because they were to dangerous and/or the technology didn't work, how comes the Chinese are using the very same data to create their own lunar program?

Because the landings were real, the behaviour of the Chinese is very rational - if they really want to go to the Moon - manned.

I heard, David Harland's "Exploring the Moon" was licensed to a chinese publisher and is to be published in Chinese.

Hell, everyone who would go to the Moon today would dig out all the old reports - and would read the ALSJ in every detail. That's one of the reasons Eric made the ALSJ, to preserve the experiences of the astronauts for the future.

Harald

I think it's because the U.S. still sees the communist People's Republic of China as an enemy and is delighted that China will be using falsified information in its attempt to do the impossible. The bigwigs at NASA are rolling on the floor laughing - and their playing along with this will get them the big budget increases they crave - perhaps not until after China has publicly failed in its attempts, though. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Giggle all you want, but in the past few years I've been tinkering with ideas for a next-generation lunar mission profile. The funny thing is, no matter how hard I try to think outside that box, I keep coming back again and again to Apollo.

It would be cool if they packed an extra rover. Something with solar panels and remote controls for telepresent exploration after the mission. I wonder how long moving parts last in that dusty vacuum?

It would be cool for them to visit an Apollo site, but I think no one should disturb the area near Apollo 11 EVER.
--Tommy

how comes the Chinese are using the very same data to create their own lunar program

My understanding is that the Chinese are not planning for a manned lunar landing.

I have mixed feelings about this. It's an historic site to be sure, and worthy of preservation. But it would be neat to have a few remote video cameras set up so people could go to a website and just look at the place where man first walked on the moon - years after the event. I wonder how long a solar powered video camera would last in the lunar environment.

There's a task for free enterprise. Land a remote control probe near the landing site with a few cameras on it, then sell access to it over the internet.

I wonder how much it would cost?

I'd give my right arm (well, I'd give cosmicdave's right arm) to see a live webcam view of Tranquility Base. It would also be great to have a high quality picture of the area as it exists now.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tomblvd on 2002-07-08 15:05 ]</font>

What say you Jay? Wanna go for it? I got $20 in my pocket that isn't doing anyting that I'd gladly put toward the "Bad Astronomy/Clavius Lunar Probe".

Seriously, what would an endeavour like this entail (ala Pathfinder)?

Actually, as far as I understand the Chinese moon program will be even larger than the Apollo program. Really, it has to be, since they're doing it for international prestige, and then it would be useless if it was less or equal to the Apollo program.

So my guess is longer and more advanced missions, and possibly a smaller, part time manned moon base.

On the other hand, I'm Swedish and not Chinese, so I wouldn't really know.

Giggle all you want, but in the past few years I've been tinkering with ideas for a next-generation lunar mission profile. The funny thing is, no matter how hard I try to think outside that box, I keep coming back again and again to Apollo.

What about those spinning concrete discs that Mary Bennett's been on about? Sounds easy. We could go to the Moon for the cost of a couple of loads from a cement truck. Come on Jay, you're just not trying. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

I'd put up at least $20 and even pay an annual subscription fee to have access to the website.
Can the Shuttle carry a payload big enough to make the one way trip to the moon, soft land at Tranquility Base and deploy a few cameras? I'm assuming it would only be a profitable venture if the lunar lander could be put into earth orbit with a single launch using existing hardware, rather than a multi-launch, assemble in orbit approach.

DaveC, why launch on the Shuttle? Wouldn't a throw-away like Delta or Long March be heaps cheaper?

Does this mean the Chinese no longer believe Apollo was a hoax? Or is that why they're going, to see if it was a hoax or not?

CzC

I wonder if they make it, will it put to rest the radiation belt argument that the hoax belevers like so much.

Tom

Good point. I should have been more generic in my example of existing hardware - that's what I intended when I used the Shuttle example. I'm looking to Jay or some of the other experts to render an opinion as to what kind of probe would survive long enough to provide a commercial payback, and what would be needed to get it there and deploy a few cameras at strategic locations.

An unmanned probe? Sure, we have boosters that could do that in one shot.

You just want to soft-land, pop up a camera, and transmit back some pictures, right? Do you care where it lands?
If you've got a spare $450 million or so, I have some friends who could build it for you. (What's the metric equivalent of a dollar?)

What are the odds that they're contemplating an industrial presence on the moon, such as envisioned by O'Neill?

If this is on the agenda, there will be some very exciting possibilities for NASA, it would seem. It would be a goad to a renewed effort to return to the moon, this time to exploit it. But it might also be seen as the equivalent of the Star Wars program that threatened to bankrupt the Soviet Union and which may have had more than a little to do with it's final downfall.

Could the private sector take on a Chinese challenge like this, if it should develop, or would it have to be a national program? It's going to get interesting in a few years, once we get around to taking the Chinese seriously.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: roidspop on 2002-07-09 00:55 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: roidspop on 2002-07-09 01:04 ]</font>

There are some constraints. It needs to be close enough to the Eagle remnants to get nice clear detail, but not so close that it disturbs any of the historic "monuments". Probably need more than one camera and you'd want some pan and zoom control. The equipment needs to be reliable for several years, not just a few weeks. Is 450 million your best price? I assumed that WAS metric, but maybe it's Canadian dollars that are metric -which would make it a LOT more expensive.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DaveC on 2002-07-09 10:31 ]</font>

Don't disturb the Apollo 11 site because of the tourist potential! One day when shuttles take tourists to the moon, a guide will be showing them round the various landing sites. "And this is where the Apollo 11 landed...no sir, I know there's no crater, but look, there's the footprint...please sir, stay behind the ropes..."

__________________
Behind every conspiracy is another conspiracy.

I think that the Apollo landing sites should be protected. I don't want to see new footprints or rover tracks placed over the originals. If space tourism takes off it might be hard to protect the landing sites without building walls around them.

If Sweden built a moon base would it be furnished by Ikea? [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]


Kel