Y'know guys, you're right. I do need more information to back up my theory, so here goes. And by the time I'm done with this section, you'll have a preponderance of evidence showing that the key to determining whether man went to the moon is not found with NASA, but with hidden messages in current music. So, as most of you know, R.E.M. wrote a song called "Man in the Moon" where Michael Stipe, "IF you believe they put a man on the moon," followed by "If you believe there's something up his sleeve." Now, what does it mean when something's up someone's sleeve? Of course it means they're trying to fool you. Ah-ha! Y'see, a very valuable clue. But it goes even further. Milos Forman made a movie called ... what? "Man in the Moon." And who was this movie about? Andy Kaufman, who was known as the greatest of Hollywood pranksters. So, another excellent clue - Andy Kaufman - moon hoax. The producer could have chosen ANY title in the world for his movie, but isn't it telling that he chose the exact same title as the R.E.M. song that proves that man never made it to the moon with its hidden lyrics. But wait, there's more. Since Andy Kaufman was a prankster, we need to look to ancient mythology to find the greatest prankster of all-time - Loki. Who was he? Well, what he did isn't as important as the phonetic pronunciation of his name - Loki = Low Key. Get it? Low key is another word for "subtle," proving that these musical groups, comedians, and Hollywood producers are ALL using 'subtle' methods to tell us that man never went to the moon. When coupled with the evidence from the Red Hot Chili Peppers song, the preponderance of evidence is overwhelming. If Perry Mason was prosecuting this case, the jury would come back with a resounding verdict - man never went to the moon.

There, I hope this satisfies all the naysayers. Like the Beatles singing "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" (which was a subtle hint to turn onto LSD), these songs are all subtle clues to a vast puzzle of deceit on NASA's part.

None of this balderdash is proof. It is just your interpretation of the lyrics and titles. Do you understand? Interpretation, not proof. Put the crack pipe down...it's really starting to make you talk silly.

Y'know, I bet most HB's wouldn't even touch this convoluted trip through the looking glass.

I have a very hard time believing this is intended as a serious argument.

ROFLMAO [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img] [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img]

Like the song's writer, John Lennon, saying the song was no such thing. In fact, Julian Lennon's inspirational painting from grade school (which he called Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds) has been preserved. You can see it, or at least a reproduction of it, at the Cleveland Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

I now know that Mr McCartney is just havin' fun. Nobody who is serious would suggest that the best proof of anything lies in the interpretaion of song lyrics. Which makes me question my own sanity for taking time to answer! Whack me with a fish!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DaveC on 2002-07-09 15:29 ]</font>

The song "Man on the Moon" itself was about Andy Kaufman (that's why it was used as the title for the movie).

Besides, REM's lyrics have always been rather difficult to fathom. If you can figure them out, though, why don't you do me a real favor and explain

To me?

__________________
SeanF

"Ask to understand, but don't challenge unless you have the knowledge."--NEOWatcher

The contents of this post are ©2008 by SeanF and may not be copied or retransmitted in any form without the express written consent of SeanF

I´m sorry to debunk this one, because it´s a fun story ... but both John Lennon and Paul McCartney has denied the above popular urban legend:

John Lennon´s friend Pete Shotton was an eyewitness:

"I also happened to be there the day Julian came home from school with a pastel painting of his classmate Lucy's face against a backdrop of exploding, multi-colored stars. Unusually impressed with his son's handiwork, John asked what the drawing was called. 'It's Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds, Daddy,' Julian replied.
"Fantastic!" said John -- and promptly incorporated that memorable phrase into a new song."

http://www.snopes2.com/music/hidden/lucysky.htm


Below is the Julian Lennon drawing that gave his father, John Lennon, the title:




The initials L-S-D were simply a coincidence ... but of course, in the mind of a conspiracy theorist, the word "coincidence" does not exist. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

http://www.snopes2.com/music/hidden/lucysky.htm




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Peekaboo on 2002-07-09 15:52 ]</font>

Darn, DaveC ! I just saw that you beat me to it ! [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Ya, but you made the effort to back up your stuff with real info and a picture! I just tried to send folks to Cleveland. So I'd say you won, even if you weren't first.

Actually, the lyric says: "There´s nothing up my sleeve, then nothing is cool." So this probably doesn´t mean anything, well, at least there is nothing up in anyones sleeve.

Maybe Michael Stipe was only pointing at that there are people in the world who doesn´t believe that the lunar landings took place. I don´t know, like many of his great lyrics, some are very difficult to understand.

__________________
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. - Carl Sagan
I hate this game! You must have all the cards I don´t have! - I

On the mix of music and astronomy ...

Did you know that Sir Patrick Moore plays a mean xylophone ? [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]



http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~mbugg/patrick/



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Peekaboo on 2002-07-09 16:25 ]</font>

Ok Andy Kaufman was a practical joker, we all know that, but how does that connect him to the moon hoax? I have read two books about him and neither of them adverts the moon hoax.

What Loki did is far more important than the phonetic pronounciation of his name. Loki is not pronounced "Low Key" where I live (in Scandinavia, where people believed in these gods), we pronounce it more like "Loh-ke" or "Lock-e". Pronouncing his name "Low Key" is as silly as pronouncing Uranus as YOUR-Anus. It just doesn´t sound right.

Loki was crafty and malicious, but also heroic, so we can compare him in that aspect to the pranksters from North-American myths. He was connected to fire and magic and was believed to cause earthquakes. He was also responsible for the death of Baldur, the god of light.

This theory of yours is therefore just plain silly.

__________________
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. - Carl Sagan
I hate this game! You must have all the cards I don´t have! - I

<bgsound src="http://www.johnmather.free-online.co.uk/lucy.mid" loop="1">
LOL!!! After the intensity of some of the other threads, it's good to read something that gives me a good chuckle.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ian R on 2002-07-09 17:20 ]</font>

If memory serves, the Deep Purple
song, "Space Truckin", said it best...
"Remember when we did the moon shot..."

In 1985, Adam Ant released the single "Apollo 9".

Lyrics are here:

http://www.antmusic.fsnet.co.uk/songs/apollo9.htm

******************************

And there´s Tom Lehrer´s song about Wernher von Braun.

Lyrics are here (it´s No. 38)

http://www.rhino.com/features/liners/79831lin5.html

One verse goes like this:

"Don't say that he's hypocritical,
Say rather that he's apolitical.
"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun. "

********************

There´s "Walking On The Moon" by The Police.

Lyrics are here:

http://www.purelyrics.com/index.php?lyrics=aiymodlm

*****************************************

And of course David Bowie´s "Space Oddity":

Lyrics are here:

http://www.todomusica.org/david_bowie/disco8.shtml

Two of the verses goes like this:

"This is Major Tom to Ground Control
I'm stepping through the door
And I'm floating in a most peculiar way
And the stars look very different today

For here
Am I sitting in a tin can
Far above the world
Planet Earth is blue
And there's nothing I can do"

*******************************'



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Peekaboo on 2002-07-09 18:41 ]</font>

Here`s my rambling contribution to a rather,um, different thread:
The man on the moon song also says 'newton got beaned by the apple, good' does that mean that the whole apple/gravity thing is a hoax???? (btw i heard that newton saw the apple falling rather then getting whacked on the head by it)

Another line from the same song:
'heres a little agit for the never believer'
Perhaps this song is some thing to AGITate those who don`t believe the landings????

I think R.E.M also wrote the score for the movie'man on the moon' so theres another coincidence gone.

"Leonard Bernstein. Leonid Brezhnev, Lenny Bruce and Lester Bangs."
This part of the song was inspired by a dream Stipe had in which he was at a party where everyone's initials were L.B.
I thought i`d help along with the explaination of that one ,i`ll leave the rest to you know who...

Peekabo: Have you seen Patrick moore on tv playing the xylophone? He`s rather good. One of my enduring tv memories is when he played 'firestarter' by the prodigy on it. Very surreal but very very funny.

So there we have have it. Absolute proof embodied in the lyrics of popular music to prove the lunar missions were real. Adam Ant even uses an actual mission number!

And the Police - how could they possibly know about giant steps, floating and soundlessness unless someone was actually there. And the Police are a lot more contemporaneous with Apollo than those Chili Pepper kids. Even the name "Police" is clearly intended to subtly suggest government authority and insider investigative knowledge. Sting, our unbiased ambassador of truth, puts the lie to the hoax theory.
That about sews up this line of (almost totally off topic) discussion.

Unfortunately not, but it just goes to show that astronomers are as passionate people as anybody ! (Have you heard that Phil Plait is a backup guitarist for The Rolling Stones ? Just kidding !! (I think that Phil is WAY too young !) [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] ..)

Ah, yes, and the ultimate proof that everything is a conspiracy:

John Glenn once guest starred on "Frasier" - and one of the "Frasier" characters was .... Daphne Moon !!

John Glenn - Moon !! Get it ?! It´s all connected !! There are no coincidences !! [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Since we're on the topic of songs about Apollo, I'd like to mention my favorite in the genre.

It's by The Byrds, from their "Ballad of Easy Rider" album (not the soundtrack album to the movie; it's a regular Byrds album that includes the movie's title song).

The song is called "Armstrong, Aldrin, and Collins", and is less than a minute long. Musically it's a cross between a hymn and a sea shanty. The lyric, in its entirety, goes like this...

Armstrong, Aldrin, and Collins
Were launched away in space.
Millions of hearts were lifted,
Proud of the human race.
Space Control at Houston
Radioed commands.
The team below
That gave the go,
They had God's helping hand.

Gives me a little glow every time I hear it.

It seems to me that this is one of the more rational and credible HB theories we have seen here. Consider the following:

1. John has not lied about his credentials, a notable contrast to many leading HBs.
2. REM, the Chili Peppers, and Andy Kaufman are conclusively proven to be real people, unlike the "confidential sources" and unnamed whistle-blowers often cited by HBs.
3. The statements cited are widely available in public medi