|
Chatroom |
|
| If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|||||||
| Register | FAQ | Members List | Calendar | Mark Forums Read |
 |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
17-March-2005, 11:09 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Bad Astronomy readers scary encounter with Hoagland fan
....... and the Hoagland fan is actually our friends co-worker .......
http://www.livejournal.com/users/zorkfox/83730.html A few weeks ago, one of my co-workers--whom I shall call Ron--discovered that I am an amateur astronomer. (How he did this is a side story which I won't relate at this time.) He gave me the URL to a Web site he said was full of good information supported by people with doctorates and degrees and experience. I thought, . o O ( Well, that sounds great, but I'll give him the URL of a site I like in return, then we can both talk about it. ) Ron pointed me at Enterprise Mission (warning: high image content and poor site design--everything is right on the front page). I pointed Ron at Bad Astronomy (a few site navigation issues, but basically a sound place). Now, being a regular Bad Reader, I knew something of the (dodgy) Enterprise Mission already, but being that I like to know both sides of a situation or argument, I thought I'd go have another look. At least, I thought, I can brush up on the most recent nonsense and thus be better-equipped to speak with Ron when next we met at work. To his credit, Ron DID actually have a look at Bad Astronomy. But, when he approached me over the next few days, he was almost shouting--as though I had, in some way, insulted his personal hero. He talked about how Bad Astronomy didn't actually PROVE any of Enterprise Mission's claims wrong, but instead just SAID they were wrong (which isn't true). (....................................) For a little while, I tried talking to Ron on my own, rather than relying entirely on the Bad Astronomy information, but I discovered that debating things with a pseudoscientist is next to impossible. Not only did Ron actually swear at me and raise his voice, but he seems to know the ins and outs of the "theories" pretty well, while my knowledge of the nonsense is pretty minimal: therefore, it's impossible for me to argue against every point he might bring up. This single-minded behavior puzzled me. I agree with the Bad Astronomy pages because they make the most sense. Would I LIKE for the solar system to be strewn with the leavings of previous inhabitants? Sure! That would be amazing! But in the face of so much evidence to the contrary, how can a pseudoscientist maintain his religious fervor? It took me a while to figure it out, but I think I've got it. (................................................. .......) This, I think, is where the psuedoscientists are getting their energy to continue fighting. I'm not prepared to say that everything they spout is incorrect--there's an excellent debunking of the "Apollo Moon Landing Was A Hoax!" theory, written by the Enterprise Mission's "principal investigator," Richard Hoagland. My view of the universe is it's sufficiently strange that anything might, in fact, be waiting out there. But I want to see some evidence before I believe it, and I think it's plenty strange already without our having to see aliens behind every surface feature of every non-terrestrial worldlet. 
|
|
18-March-2005, 03:26 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Bad Astronomy readers scary encounter with Hoagland fan
Quote:
In response to your sad story, I'd suggest a couple of things. Firstly, if you have the inclination to keep chatting to Ron, ask him if he thinks that raising his voice and swearing at you makes his arguments any stronger. Secondly, and perhaps most importantly, ask him if there's any evidence he can think of which would make him change his mind. If he says there's nothing, he's lost the argument and you needn't discuss things any further. Otherwise, explain to him the sort of evidence you think would make you change *your* mind. Thirdly, you might as well do some research. I know from personal experience that I've spent many pleasurable hours at the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal site, learning about Apollo to debunk the Hoax Believers.
|
|
18-March-2005, 03:28 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Welcome to the board, SpaceCadet1969.
You may want to take a look at www.clavius.org Maybe point your friend there too.
__________________
Quaeso quousque humi defixa tua mens erit? Nonne aspicis, quae in templa veneris?
|
|
18-March-2005, 03:47 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Just to clarify, SpaceCadet1969, is that your blog, just something you ran across online, or what?
|
|
18-March-2005, 04:10 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Psi-less
__________________
"Given only the ships and right sails for the heavenly space, there will also be men unafraid of the terrible distances."--Kepler, to Galileo
|
|
21-March-2005, 05:18 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Guy was really good though - he only charged me $250 to fix it up so that I could swim safely again. Nothing in there now but good old fashioned water.......
__________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams "Certainly, in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful." - Ian Faith
|
|
21-March-2005, 05:21 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Boy, it must have gotten in there from contaminated rain! Make sure you use that pool cover...
BTW, did you know that Dihydrogen Monoxide is also a greenhouse gas? 
__________________
Quaeso quousque humi defixa tua mens erit? Nonne aspicis, quae in templa veneris?
|
|
21-March-2005, 04:15 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
21-March-2005, 04:24 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
About your pool: do you use ground water, or water from a stream to fill it? Because dihydrogen monoxide is found in almost all waterways and lakes of the Western world. (I LOVE that site! that pic with the dihydrogen monoxide contaminated industrial waste
 .)
__________________
To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.
|
|
21-March-2005, 06:58 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
SpaceCadet1969: When arguing with a pseudoscientist/conspiracy believer (choose any conspiracy or pseudoscience topic) you will forever be at a disadvantage. These people concentrate on minutia, much of which will be unfamiliar to you, since you never thought the things they point at were potential sources of controversy. So they are forever bringing up little things and challenging you to "Explain this if you can!" In the Apollo Hoax arena, it often takes the form of photographic anomalies. As soon as you explain one to the satisfaction of most bystanders, the HB will produce another photo of a funny shadow and demand that you explain it. It just goes on and on. I'm no expert on the Hoagland phenomenon, but most of the "tools" and "artifacts" these people see on the moon or on Mars elicit from me a "You've got to be kidding!" reaction. But people build careers with this stuff.
|
|
21-March-2005, 11:52 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
__________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams "Certainly, in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful." - Ian Faith
|
|
21-March-2005, 11:57 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
DHM in its solid form is even more deadly.
|
|
22-March-2005, 12:32 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I think this DHM hype is way overblown. Prudently used in reasonable quantities, it poses minimal health hazards and is, in fact, quite beneficial. In fact, I have tapped an underground source of it near my home and utilize it on a daily basis. I use it as a thermal conductor in my home's heating system. I find that it greatly improves the performance of many household cleansers. In my kitchen, it's absolutely essential to gourmet cooking.
Better living through modern chemistry!
|
|
22-March-2005, 12:42 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Edited to add: I just remembered: there's a vast reservoir of liquid dihydrogen monoxide off the Alaska coast. Worse -- the stuff is contaminated with all manner of salts and other chemicals. The peril is extreme!
|
|
22-March-2005, 09:08 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
|
|
22-March-2005, 12:01 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
__________________
Any day you wake up on "the right side of the dirt" is a good day. T. Anderson
|
|
22-March-2005, 03:07 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
* Although to be fair, driving your car into a filled underpass can hardly be blamed on the presence of DHM!
__________________
Living on Earth may be expensive, but it includes an annual free trip around the Sun.
|
|
22-March-2005, 06:42 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
__________________
Sic Transit Gloria Mundi
|
|
22-March-2005, 08:34 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
The rivers around here are full of the stuff, its disgusting. Theres a huge plant nearby that processes hundreds of thousands of gallons of DHM, a byproduct of which is DHM in extremely pure form. And do you know what they do with it this poison? They pump it straight back into our rivers and lakes!!!
|
|
22-March-2005, 09:00 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Forget DHM. How about this dioxygen stuff! Do you realize that it is oderless and colorless and our air is full of it! Plus, it has been proven that it can kill various types of organisms. Yet the government is not only doing nothing to get rid of it, but owns millions and millions of acres of plants that are producing it! Using our tax money! And all to support the timber industry. It's a crime.
8-[
__________________
At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King) One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009 All moderation in purple
|
|
22-March-2005, 10:14 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Not to mention how extremely inflammable the thing is!!
__________________
To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.
|
|
23-March-2005, 12:45 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
__________________
"Bessie Braddock to Churchill "Winston, your drunk!" Churchill: "Bessie, you're ugly, and tomorrow morning I shall be sober"" the solar system
|
|
23-March-2005, 08:34 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
I happen to have a source of this chemical in my backyard. Everytime I have tried to cap the flow of it coming on to my property, it just overflows and eventualy erodes/disolves whatever barrier I put in place! There's just no stopping this stuff!
__________________
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists in the Universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
|
|
23-March-2005, 09:09 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
|
|
24-March-2005, 07:08 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
__________________
Any day you wake up on "the right side of the dirt" is a good day. T. Anderson
|
|
24-March-2005, 07:18 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
 :wink:
__________________
To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.
|
|
24-March-2005, 07:28 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
#-o
__________________
At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King) One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009 All moderation in purple
|
|
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Linear Mode
