Is there any pictures of were it was on the lander before they unfold it.?

As I understand it it was on the outside of the lander,right?

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I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

Just a few shots form the Apollo Archive Gallery of the Apollo 15 LRV:

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/ap15-KSC-71C-2210.jpg
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/ap15-s71-31409.jpg
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/ap15-KSC-71P-281.jpg
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/ap15-KSC-71P-282.jpg
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/ap15-71-HC-682.jpg
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/ap15-KSC-71PC-415.jpg
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/ap15-KSC-71P-299.jpg
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/ap15-KSC-71PC-345.jpg

Harald

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Beautiful.! Thx alot

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I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

Really beautiful. I never realized the rover had such large wheels. And apparently no huge batteries, as I can't clearly see them.

And that LM. On these detailed color photos it strikes me again how "strange" it could look because it was a space-only craft. What a difference with the other craft we know!

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I always knew the LR was "garaged" by being folded up on the LM landing stage. I knew the astronauts had to lower it down from the side, unfold it, and then roll it off the ramp. However, I had never, until now, seen a comprehensive set of photos to show exactly how it was stowed, so thanks kucharek for posting those links to photos!

I have looked through a few of the Apollo Archive photos and quite a bit of the ALSJ but obviously I need to spend more (fascinating!) time looking through both archives.

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The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not Eureka! (I found it!) but rather, 'hmm.... that's funny...'
- Isaac Asimov

Are we alone in the Universe? Are we the only intelligent life? Who knows? But the universe is so BIG, it somehow seems such a waste of space if we are ....

If you go to the unofficial John Young site and go to the Apollo 16 mission, you'll find plenty of scans showing the LRV being deployed, tested, etc.

http://www.johnwyoung.com/as16/as16pg1.htm

With a little bit of guidance it's not difficult to discover the stowage and deployment strategy for the LRV. Yet surprisingly lots of conspiracy authors try to make a big deal out of it.

Jack White is just off in left field -- or right field, depending on his LM dyslexia du jour. White mistakes the MESA for the LRV. But he has a history of not being able to tell the difference between the sides, front, and back of the lunar module.

James Collier is probably the father of the LRV arguments. He shows in his video that he has looked at the LRV stowage and deployment drawings. Ostensibly he knows how it is supposed to go. But also in his video he has a conversation with someone who tells him something different (or so Collier believes, since he really isn't listening closely) and so later he goes off and draws his notion of what he remembered this other guy saying, simply tossing aside all the drawings, photos, and videos. He attributes this monstrosity back to his original source, but doesn't verify with his interviewee that he has accurately represented his statements in the drawing.

(That's a common tactic: taking a line of reasoning that includes somewhere in it a statement from a bona fide expert and then trying to pin on that expert all the subsequent wrong interpretation and speculation, simply because the expert contributed at some point.)

Collier fully understands where on the LM the rover was supposed to go. But because he draws the folded-up LRV badly from a brief verbal description, his LRV version doesn't fit into the quad in the descent stage.

Subsequent readers tend to become confused by the statement that the "LRV wouldn't fit in the LM," and think that it was supposed to go through the door. "In the LM" is a big ambiguous in this case, but in the video Collier is fairly clear about "in" meaning stowed in the forward left quad of the descent stage. And to people who just casually look at the LM with the rover stowed, it looks like the bottom of the chassis is just the side panel of the LM.

The question sometimes comes up, "What was stored in that quad in earlier LMs?" The answer is, nothing much. The erectable S-band antenna and the RTG fuel cask, not a full load for that space. When the LRV was added, the batteries had to be moved back on the centerline and the LRV equipment pallets (seats, etc.) had to be stowed diametrically opposite in order to balance the craft out.

Scott Sullivan's Virtual LM has some very nice renderings of the deployment sequence for the LRV.

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Oh so the batteries went inside. Good explanation why I couldn't spot them!

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Jay talked about the LM batteries, not the LRV batteries. The LRV batteries were located in boxes above the front axis of the LRV.

Harald

PS: Of course, there were other important pieces of equipent for the LRV...
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/a15-108KSC3713276.jpg

(See http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/a15.lrvdep.html#1203133 for story)

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Oh like that. Thanks for the clarification.

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Well, the LM batteries went inside ... the LM. :-)

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I'm curious. Why did they use batteries? Why couldn't they use solar panels or fuel cells? were batteries lighter or more powerful? or did they use both ?

Fuel cells for the LM would have required fuel for them -- cryogenic hydrogen and oxygen. They had oxygen, but did not have room or a mass budget for hydrogen.

Solar panels are large and delicate, and generally require optimum alignment to the sun, as well as a clear line of sight to them. That's not very suitable for times in which the LM is on the dark side of its orbit.

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In my defense:

IMO it was more logical that "batteries" meant "LRV batteries" than "LM batteries" in this sentence (from a linguistic point of view).

Therefore, I thought you meant the LRV batteries were placed inside the LM during transport.

Absolutely no offence though .

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No offense taken, hence the smiley. In my mind the context was the rearrangement of the descent stage internals in order to accommodate the LRV, its equipment, and the extended-stay MESA. In addition, the battery complement for the LM itself had to be increased to allow for the longer stay. Batteries are almost always heavy, but lighter in this case than the corresponding other equipment.

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Clavius Moon Base

Thanks for the information! When it is interpreted correctly (and usually your explanations are VERY clear to me), I really learn a lot from them! And if not, someone invented rectifications and clarifications, which have the same end result. =D>

ABout using batteries for the LRV: I've done quite some preliminary space design exercises over the last few years. When a certain amount of power is needed for a very shrot amount of time (few days), I certainly would consider batteries. So the choice is rather logical to me. Not that I could do the entire power source tradeoff with belly feeling alone of course, but I would have identified batteries as a serious option myself.

It strikes me how "wild" those astronauts drove with their rover! It has a low center of gravity, and you get spectacular jumps and dust due to the limited gravity and lack of atmosphere of course, but still... coll footage 8)

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Keep in mind that the "Grand Prix" footage is specifically an edge-of-envelope test for the LRV. Normally it wouldn't have been driven like that.

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Nice test: take one turn a little bit too fast, go on your side, tear your suit/helmet, whoops . It must be cool though, to hold the land speed record on the moon 8) .

Does anyone have links to that specific footage and "normal driving" footage to compare? I'm interested. Is the grand prix footage that clip of the LRV making a speedy turn, bumping up and stopping? (a bit vague maybe )

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The Grand prix shot,is as I understand it the HBs favorite (one of them) claims.

Im talking about the dust settling in low G / vacum.

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I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

My favorite part of that...when Charlie Duke says to John Young, (paraphrasing) "Try turning sharply", and John's answer, "I have no desire to turn sharply". Every time I hear that, it "cracks" me up.