Go here if you dare:

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com

Check out the forums. Very strident, these people are!

Regards, tbm

I couldn't find this anywhere. But if you got money, and are willing to try...
http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_fullstory.asp?id=35733

Although maybe thats not his purpose. Maybe it's just a cover story.

No. They are not normal.

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- Jesus -

Compared to engine and wingtip contrails...!!?

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I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

Hmmm. I think I've been banned from there. (No warning. No statement on the MB. One day I was unable to post. No response to e-mails asking if I had been banned or if there was a technical problem. End of story.)

I have noticed that they are VERY thin-skinned and treat skeptics very rudely If you posted ANYTHING that was, "unflattering" or didn't follow the woo line, you for sure was banned.

Regards, tbm

It's not only what they are spraying on us. It's also the stupid way they do it. Big Xs in the sky. No normal airliners play games like that.

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- Jesus -

Of course, the notion that aircraft tracks may cross over, never occurs to them.

No normal airliners play games like that.

Do you have any qualifications in air navigation or airline operations to back that statement up?

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The law requires that I answer no!

Yep. There are no big Xs in the sky in this picture of normal airliner contrails.

I challenge anyone to find a big X contrail. Just one.

Only chemtrails appear as Xs!

Wait. I see an X. There's another one. Another. Oh, sorry.

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I've watched the skies for many years. I've lived in this county for decades. I know what's normal, and what's not. Some days someone is playing games.

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Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

- Jesus -

We have big Xs in the sky most days where I live, the aircraft flying North, South from Newcastle and Teesside airports leave Contrails and aircraft coming in off the North Sea East/West leave Contrails above them, what's the mystery, if the winds right we get grid patterns.

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Some planes go east, some north. Some go south, some west (the AUDACITY!).

Chances are that some of these paths will cross. Voila! Big Xs in the sky.

Big Whoop!

Ya gotta have too much time on your hands to make a conspiracy out of stuff like this.

Regards, tbm

Can you give examples of what isn't normal?

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Well, I've seen crossing contrails for as long as I remember. They're quite normal, so I disagree that in this case you know what's "normal". Are you at all familiar with how jetliner traffic is routed in the U.S.?

Or are you saying that the crossing contrails I've seen must be "chemtrails"? Which, as I've pointed out before, would be an utterly ineffective way of applying any kind of agent to people on the ground?

So!! You show your true stripes... YOU are one of THEM!!!

Oh... wait... evidence... :-k

8)

Junkyardfrog

A simple NO would have sufficed. And would have been far more honest.

I've watched the skies for many years. I've lived in this county for decades.
As have I on both. I also am a pilot with a great deal of training in Aviation and Meteorolgy. I have yet to see anything that would smack of people "playing games" as you so mysteriously put it.

I know what's normal, and what's not.
Without knowledge of either Air Navigation or Aviation Operations, how can you possibly make this statement?

What specific evidence do you have that "games" are being played? No links to woo woo sites please. Tell us in your own words. Vague statements of oddness will not cut it. Be specific, and then provide the scientific explanations which would show that these trails are anything other then meterologically normal phenomena.

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Here's some to give the ChemTrailers a field day:





Now say that this was taken at the day of JFK's assassination, and you're solid for some weeks

(these are just B-52's taking off. The enormous amount of smoke is due to water cooling of the chamber and turbine to allow for full thrust settings without damaging the engine. The steam and smoke add to huge black/brown plumes during take off. Not healthy, but still just 1950's engine smoke! )

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Of course those are contrails... but that's how they do it... they hide the chemtrails among all the harmless contrails... [-(

Then they call us nuts even though we know the truth!! 8-[

T H E___T R U T H___I S___O U T___T H E R E

• 

8)

You know, one glance at the photos and I thought, "Huh, B-52s taking off and getting up to cruising altitude." Take-off and climb requires lots of power. To put out that power those 8 P&W J57 or TF33 turbofans (B-52H) suck up a lot of fuel. Plus they're not as efficient as later engines. Therefore lots of partially-burned hydrocarbons get pushed out in the exhaust, creating lots of black smoke.

Those photos look the same as B-52s always have, from the 1950s to today. Just as with all other exhaust streams and contrails, which look (and are) the same as they have been for over half a century,

Great BUFF photos, BTW! =D>

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Some more links in Chemtrails believers. Here are some of their claims:

There is a strong possibility that Labour is allowing USAF KC-135R tanker planes to spray pure white chemical fibres across the UK either for military radar purposes or for weather modification, due to the thinning ozone layer, and the increasing level of co2 in our atmosphere.

This Toronto website should give you evidence about the same thing happening in Canada:

http://www.airapparent.ca/

This to convince the tinfoil hat skeptics, they say:

http://www.weatherwars.info/

If USAF planes are spraying fibres for ANY reason, just imagine all the extra unnecessary Co2 is being put up there whilst they are doing this.

http://www.phenomenamagazine.com/0/e...mp;obj_id=1821

These are some of the most "horrendous" pictures of it:

http://www.chemtrails-france.com/

A reminder that airliners have been making X's in the sky for a long time.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/094277/M/

Airliners navigate via radio beacons, and GPS waypoint. As they cross over these beacons or waypoints from different directions, you will get X's and asterisks, and wagon wheels, etc.

In addition to the fact that they cross paths all the time anyway.

It's hard to fathom how anyone can think contrails would not form patterns in the sky.

You get bunches of them in parallel rows because lots of planes fly the same airways, and the wind makes the trails drift.

"pure white", eh? Exactly what is the definition of "pure white"? If you happen to find that, how would it apply to observational data, where nothing is "pure"? I doubt even George could come up with a definition of that one. Such sloppy terminology is a clue to the fact that the information is not scientific and is written by someone who has no logical idea what they're talking about.

Bluestar, have you ordered and read this publication yet? Once you know how to use a baloney detector, you might not have the need to post such things as this.

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Personally I'm becoming convinced that the chemtrail conspiracy was origginally contrived as an experiment to see just how ridiculous a theory could be made, and still be believed by a large number of poeple.

Latest I hear is that TS Arlene was killled by chemtrails :roll:

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/thread8607.html

The trouble is, you can never convince the believers. The fact is, contrails do sometimes fan out into cirrostratus. And sometimes they don't. People don't notice how many aircraft fly over their houses, until one day contrails linger longer than usual due to the atmospheric conditions. Other varieties of cirrus cloud do appear from time to time. And weather is, by it's very nature, unpredictable.

You say tomarto, I say tomato, you say chemtrail I say nature.......

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And, then there are folks -- was junkyardfrog one? (yep) -- who 30-40 years ago didn't see today's numbers of contrails, so the ominous "they" are obviously doing something different now. Yeah, it's called growth of the airline industry. How many more commercial flights (and military flights) are there now than those decades ago?

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Here's a few of my own (although I feel I may be leaving myself wide open)
1. What is so important (or to what end) that they would have to do this in the first place?
2. Why aren't the people who are "in the know" affected?
3. Density - let's say 1 part per Billion in the lower 10 miles of atmospheres: (Volume of earth + 10 mile radius) - volume of earth = About 2 billion cubic miles. 2 cubic miles of material is one heck of a lot of stuff to put on airplanes.
3a. How long does it stay in the air?

And how many of the planes were jets?

Well, not completely unpredictable! [-(



...And there really are aircraft that are used to attempt to modify the weather. They really do dump chemicals of various kinds into storm clouds in an effort to either cause rain or weaken storms (sometimes both together). That's not to say that those methods really work, but they are being tried... on rather rare occasions, though. I'm not aware of any attempts to modify "Arlene."

Then there's chaff....

But, to the best of my knowledge, all the trails you see in the sky are contrails. I noticed that weatherman714 (in the forum linked in the O.P. of this thread) listed the conditions under which contrails can form. I don't believe they're correct. There's no reason contrails couldn't form in warmer conditions. He also gave altitudes determined via thermal IR satellite imagery and radiosonde observations. Doesn't work. Thin clouds/contrails would appear to be lower than thick ones at the same altitude. The direct comparison of IR/radiosonde doesn't work, either, since the "temperature" given in IR imagery is based on a "black body," which water is not. It's approximate, yes, but not exact enough to use reliably, especially with a relatively thin cloud.

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One nice thing about being a meteorologist who also likes astronomy is that the sky is always interesting!

Chemtrailers? Were those 5000 or 10000 gallon models? Dual or single axle?...but I digress...

Chemtrailers believe that the stuff being 'sprayed' affects the health. After seeing Nicolas's pictures, I would believe it...90 BUFFs launched in 90 minutes, wait 90 minutes, launch 90 more...ya coulda cut the smoke with a knife...when the last raider took off from Guam that December day, we'd put so much armament in the air the north end of the island came another ten feet out of the water...

Linebacker II they called it...

...memories...

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I think the Chemtrailers are active in N.E. Ohio :roll: ... They take off from a local airport
Officials Investigate Appearance Of Mysterious Spots
http://www.newsnet5.com/news/4608361/detail.html
edit: A little more detail from another station
http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_fullstory.asp?id=36436

My apologies in advance to everyone that reads this, and to John Stewart, and the Monkees, and Maksutov:

To the tune of "Daydream Believer" ---

Oh, they can spray from the wings
Of the big gray flying things.
At sixteen thousand feet they can be seen.
Making rings in the skies,
Leaving trails before our eyes.
His ready cam'ra's aimed at those rings.

Cheer up, Everyone.
But, what can they mean?
To a Chemtrail Believer
And the trails that he's seen?

We once thought they'd be
Finding white clouds they could seed.
Now you know how frightened we can be.
Oh, and the contrails start and end
Without taking time to bend.
So we know, don't we, what we really see!

Cheer up, Everyone.
But, what can they mean?
To a Chemtrail Believer
And the trails that he's seen?

[repeat several times and eventually fade]

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"I am Meteora, supreme goddess of weather" - Meteora, in The Unchained Goddess

One nice thing about being a meteorologist who also likes astronomy is that the sky is always interesting!