1) "Chemtrails" are just normal condensation trails.

2) The so-called chemtrail haze is just virga.

3) Criss-cross patterns, asterisks, As, Vs, Xs in the sky form because planes follow radio beacons.

4) Contrail persistence is a function of air relative humidity.

5) On/off trails occur because the plane flies through pockets of dryer air.

6) There is the storage problem addressed in the "Problem for the chemtrail believers" thread (some boring math here).

7) Aluminum oxide emission is caused by SRMs.

8) Barium compounds emission is caused by mining and refining industrial processes.

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Never stop questioning.

http://www.circlemakers.org

Maybe. I think it's more likely that in this case, the plane is flying through horizontal "rolls" in the atmosphere. Those rolls are caused by vertical wind shear and result in up & down motion. Downward motion tends to dry the air (due to dry-adiabatic* heating and no change in moisture content), while upward motion tends to make it more humid (same reason, in reverse). Even on a fairly small scale, if the air is near saturation, this can lead to the sort of on/off trails you're describing.

Otherwise, the list looks good... except that I have no idea what SRMs are (maybe that's just because I just finished a midnight shift at work and the brain is barely functional).... :-s
----------------------------------------
* - When air descends, the increase in pressure (alone) causes the temperature to rise, according to the Ideal Gas Law. Raising the temperature, while holding moisture content the same, results in lower relative humidity. Ascending air undergoes the opposite effect until it reaches saturation, then heat exchanges due to condensation make things more complicated.

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"I am Meteora, supreme goddess of weather" - Meteora, in The Unchained Goddess

One nice thing about being a meteorologist who also likes astronomy is that the sky is always interesting!

What about this response from a "chembeliver".

A real stretch,dont you think! =D>



"Chemtrails consist of dihydromonoxide. This chemical is called the "Silent Killer" and you can learn more at: www.dihydomonoxide.org

A lot of people believe there is a separate tank and spraying system for chemtrails. This is not the case. Chemicals in the fuel are combined with the air in the combustion process to create dihyromonoxide which is sent out the exhaust. The flight and ground crews never know they are delivering chemical death. This significantly reduces the number of people in on the conspiracy.

Soon after leaving the engine the dihyodromonoxide turns from gaseous to its solid form which is naturally white. Barium clouds would be aquamarine in color."

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I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

Just leave him a hurricane to stop, that would take care of him pretty quickly...

Here a question I would ask the chemtrail dudes

-what exactly are the chemicals used in the trails?

__________________
here we go, the world is spinning
when it stops, it's just beginning

sun comes up, we laugh and we cry
sun goes down, and then we all die

Touched by his noodly appendage

well, then...

What did you say to the dude? Tell him how not only is the government placing this deadly chemical into the contrails of planes, but also trying to fill his food with soduim chloride, acetic acid, pectic acid and methanethiol :wink:

__________________
here we go, the world is spinning
when it stops, it's just beginning

sun comes up, we laugh and we cry
sun goes down, and then we all die

Touched by his noodly appendage

I feel a need to dose myself with some more 3,7-dihydro-1,3,7-trimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione. 8)

Psi-less

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"Given only the ships and right sails for the heavenly space, there will also be men unafraid of the terrible distances."--Kepler, to Galileo

I hear they're putting that in coffee and tea now. Ang get this: they're even going after kids by putting it in soft drinks!

Hrmph! Back in my day, you had to walk three miles uphill in waist deep snow, stand in line for 12 hours and *beg* for the opportunity to work an 18 hour shift in the 3,7-dihydro-1,3,7-trimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione mines. Now just anyone can buy it without the 3 blood tests, several invasive procedures and 2 doctors' signatures on a note! What's the world coming to? :wink:

Psi-less who still needs about another cup.....
edited to add a missing "the"

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"Given only the ships and right sails for the heavenly space, there will also be men unafraid of the terrible distances."--Kepler, to Galileo

Are you guys serious!


8-[



Thats it,Im never going to eate,drink or breath again.

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I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

They do it up here. It works.
http://www.swc.state.nd.us/arb/ndcmp.html

Quite often when I am out doing SKYWARN I'll see these guys working a storm. It is quite interesting.

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Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out. ---Cardinal Wolsey (1475-1530)

Greetings.

Try posting those very sensible and realistic causes and explanations at chemtrailcentral.com. You will be sure to be classified as a (horrors!) debunker and will be subject to many attacks, personal and otherwise. Go ahead, I dare ya! :wink:

Regards, tbm

You can't. Any argument you bring just proves you are either a dupe, or a part of the conspiracy. Just give it up.

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Fiction has to be plausible. Reality is under no such constraint.

Those are some spectacular chem..., er, contrails!

As a pilot, I seen contrails all the time. Why people can't seem to understand that one of the by-products of burning jetfuel is water vapor, and that we're dealing with temps between -20 and -80 degrees at altitude, which turns water vapor into instant Folger's Freeze Dried Crystals without the flavor, I'll never know.

You're right - it's because they believe. When people believe what they want to believe, nothing will ever change their mind.

Here's another theory: Carbon dioxide freezes at -110 degrees F (-79 degrees C) to become dry ice.

What would happen if not only the water vapor in the jet exhaust crystallized, but the carbon dioxide crystallized, too? How long would the chem, er, contrails persist them?

Regardless, given the right conditions (relatively humid air) and cold temps, contrails can persist for many hours, and can actually "seed" additional condensation from humidity in the air, so they can actually grow into large contrails, particularly if the air temp is dropping (such as when you have high cirrus forming which may block some solar radiation).

Hard to say, but it doesn't matter. At latitudes where people actually live, the temperature at flight level never gets that cold.

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"I am Meteora, supreme goddess of weather" - Meteora, in The Unchained Goddess

One nice thing about being a meteorologist who also likes astronomy is that the sky is always interesting!

You're right. It's about 52 below at FL 390 these days above Montana.

I have seen it colder than 110 below at FL 430, but we weren't over the US at the time... 8)

Greetings.

I just saw a show on the History channel in which they showed how Boeing 747s are being modified to fight forest fires. The rates in which they can dispense fire retardents and water are truly astounding. Let me be the first to suggest that they could also be used to disperse (insert chemtrail woo-woo subsance here) over the sheep-like, un-informed populace in even greater amounts.



Regards, tbm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't carbon dioxide need to be under pressure to freeze?

__________________
"Eternal vigilance is the price of supremacy"
------------Mark Twain

"Women are like Voltron. The more you can hook up, the better it gets."

If they are dispersing chemicals in such great amounts though, they can't disperse for very long. The only explanation for such long continuous trails is water vapor from normal jet exhaust.

__________________
"Eternal vigilance is the price of supremacy"
------------Mark Twain

"Women are like Voltron. The more you can hook up, the better it gets."

If they are dispersing chemicals in such great amounts though, they can't disperse for very long. The only explanation for such long continuous trails is water vapor from normal jet exhaust.

__________________
"Eternal vigilance is the price of supremacy"
------------Mark Twain

"Women are like Voltron. The more you can hook up, the better it gets."

Don't know. I could never squeeze it long enough while it was at that temperature before my hands hurt.

Why am I hearing a rimshot?

__________________
"Eternal vigilance is the price of supremacy"
------------Mark Twain

"Women are like Voltron. The more you can hook up, the better it gets."

Their latest "proof".




"Nearly seven years after extensive “lay downs” of lingering and spreading white plumes were first reported smearing skies over across North America, Europe is in an uproar and Washington could be close to coming clean about chemtrails.

At least the Bush White house will soon have a legitimate weather control agency to finally “launder” one of the biggest cons ever perpetrated.

Introduced in the US Senate on March 1, 2005, Bill S517 calls for a US “Weather Modification Advisory and Research Board” to officially commence operations in October 2005. When passed as expected, this law will make large-scale chemical alteration of the atmosphere legal across a formerly free and beautiful land called America.

It’s already happening.

Less than two weeks before the bill was introduced, Linda wrote from “up here in the mountains of northeast Georgia” of the worst spray day she had ever seen. “Not one day in the past two months have we had a blue sky with normal clouds,” Linda wrote. Even normal clouds “are ‘laced’ with whatever the hell is coming out of those white planes that have no engine sounds, even when they fly low enough to see there is no printing anywhere on the planes.” Several years ago the US Air Force stated that it was repainting its silver aircraft white, and retrofitting its jet tanker fleet with “hush kits” to silence their engines.

DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THE WEATHER
Whatever fresh environmental disaster Bill S517 accomplishes, this bill will ease the way for admission of a project suspected by many and confirmed by air traffic controllers at America’s biggest airports. When and if the US public demands that their government “do something” about the extreme weather pummeling their neighborhoods, Washington will be able to officially reply, “We are.”

Intended to “develop and implement a comprehensive and coordinated national weather modification policy,” the board is tasked with coordinating state and federal weather modification efforts. It’s direct mandate is stepped-up research and development aimed at developing experimental “models, devices, equipment, materials, and processes” to change or control, “by artificial methods” the development of clouds and/or precipitation in the troposphere. This weather-forming region of the atmosphere lies between Earth’s surface and the stratosphere, starting around 35,000 feet.

The federal weather modifiers will now directly oversee the cloud-seeding operations currently being carried out over dozens of states to increase rain and snowfall for irrigation, electrical power and winter recreation purposes. As droughts intensify under an onslaught of moisture-absorbing chemicals dispensed behind ozone-destroying jet tankers, and future towns wash away in sudden flash floods triggered by rain-inducing atmospheric tinkering, these unnatural disasters and other “inadvertent” effects of weather modification will be closely “studied” by the newly created board.

But no studies have been released on the implications of wide-scale alteration of regional atmospheric heat balances.

Large-scale weather modification is banned under the United Nations Environmental Modification Convention signed by Washington in 1970.

CHEMTRAILS 2005
Meanwhile, recent heavy “chemtrail” spraying over Portland, Oregon and Canada’s west coast has eased off once again. Another long-time chemtrail “hot zone”, Santa Cruz, California continues reporting clear blue skies unmarked by the chemplanes’ ugly scrawl.

As recently as May 2005, a Swiss resident sent photographs to Meria Heller’s website, reporting: “Today was one of the heaviest Spraying in Switzerland ever.”

Some Canadians also have their eyes wide open. in June 2005, large graffiti spray-painted on a major overpass in West Vancouver advised motorists: WAKE UP, LOOK UP, CHEMTRAILS ARE EVERYWHERE.

AIR FORCE INSIDER DESCRIBES WEATHER MOD MISSIONS
An senior active duty air force insider has described environmental combat missions already being flown by specially-outfitted C-130 Hercules transports, which can be reloaded, refueled and relaunched in just 10 minutes to continue their assault on violent storms afflicting US communities. Flown by regular air force pilots, these “science flights” include onboard meteorologists, who painstakingly log the results of each mission.

Big storm fronts and hurricanes require a vast amount of absorbent chemicals to reduce their destructive power. To achieve the fast turn-around times needed to complete their missions, flights of returning C-130s taxi to a stop and immediately commence refueling as the empty onboard spray canister is removed. as soon as the empty canister is clear of the aircraft, a waiting truck wheels a semi-trailer-size container of sky-seeding chemicals to the plane’s lowered rear ramp, where it is slid inside on rails like a gigantic “soda dispenser”.

The air force insider added that other spray missions spread (barium) chemtrails to facilitate 3D radar mapping of the entire continental United States. He also said that the air force has been spraying storm fronts “for a long time”. The military’s main interest, he added, is experimentation aimed at gaining control of the weather for military use.

Did the air force spray this year’s first Caribbean hurricane, in which the western quadrant disintegrated just before making its Texas landfall? “There’s no reason they wouldn’t,” the air force insider replied.

But C-130 turboprops would not necessarily be used to try to influence hurricanes that typically release more energy than all atomic arsenals combined. Referring to the 757s-767´s recently modified for aerial spraying, the air force insider told willthomas.net, “We’ve got them, but I can’t talk about them.”

He added that many people in the air force “are aware of William Thomas” and his reporting on chemtrails. The air force insider confirmed that this reporter “has it mostly right” concerning the application and purposes behind chemtrails. But would not elaborate on my reporting.

EUROPEAN CHEMTRAIL UPROAR
Meanwhile, the chemtrails controversy has taken Europe by storm following a series of articles by Swiss freelance journalist Gabriel Stetter in the German popular science magazine Raum+Zeit (Space and Time), circulation circa 50,000.

Stetter’s first article, “White Skies” created a public relations nightmare for Greenpeace when it informed readers in January 2004 how “Thousands of people were thoroughly shocked when they realised, and were informed by Greenpeace in Germany, Switzerland and Austria that—for some reason or other—Greenpeace has no interest in the chemtrail question whatsoever.”

The Swiss government also came under public pressure to explain the checkerboards being painted in its skies. On March 5, 2004 the Environment Department in Berne, Switzerland responded to an inquiry by Rudolf Rechsteiner, a Social Democratic member of parliament, admitting that “A number of ideas exist that show how it would be possible to reduce global warming by technical means, at least in the short term.”

But these ideas, the government office hastened to add, “are no more than theoretical. We are not aware of any practical application of these methods, either at home or abroad.”

Ten days later, Greenpeace Switzerland climate and transport expert Cyrill Studer wrote an internal memo assuring colleagues that while he had “heard of the chemtrails phenomenon,” for the present, Greenpeace “will not be following up the theme of chemtrails.”

Two reasons for inaction by Greenpeace climate change activists were given. First, Studer explained, “There is not a sufficiently solid scientific basis” for Greenpeace to risk its budget and reputation verifying this “supposed phenomenon”. To do so, he added in his memo to Greenpeace staff, “would overstretch our capacities…Important elements of our climate campaign would suffer, particularly the promotion of energy efficiency and of renewable energies, or our active influence in present-day politics.”

But outside Greenpeace’s corporate offices, the controversy continued. On June 11 German Greenpeace spokeswoman Kristine Läger told concerned constituents:

The idea of reducing global warming by putting chemicals in the atmosphere has been around a long time. There are various proposals in this direction, suggesting the chemicals should be independently sprayed and that they should be mixed with the fuel of ordinary passenger aircraft. Whether in Germany such proposals have reached the point of actual realization is highly questionable. So far as we are aware there are no indications from research and observation of weather and climate that these so-called chemtrails exist. Nor are we aware of any project that has been realized in practice.. in all probability this is not happening.

But Gabriel Stetter believes that the Greenpeace “Rainbow Warriors” know all about the rainbows in the sky. They probably also know of geoengineering studies to reduce incoming sunlight and slow global warming issued by the National Academy of Sciences. “And they may even have taken a look at the Welsbach Patent,” he writes. “But they have no idea what conclusions to draw from the chessboard pattern suspended in the Hamburg sky or the aluminium-enriched ‘rainbows’.

“Supposing the word ‘chemtrails’ appeared in print in the Greenpeace Magazine,” Stetter speculates. “How many tens of thousands of people more would look up into the sky and recognize that the supposedly Utopian “proposal” has long moved on via “spraying trials” to a systematic, long-term spreading of cloud cover over the whole of Europe?”

Back in Basel, Gabriel Stetter quoted unsourced opinion polls showing that in this “stronghold” of chemtrails believers, one in ten people “have already heard of them despite the media blackout. Several thousand people in the prosperous town at the bend in the Rhine know that the chemtrails phenomenon suggests that something is seriously wrong.”

Among these Swiss chemtrails activists, he explained, “are well-to-do people, who because of their environmental awareness have been for a long time, in some cases for decades, members of Greenpeace.”

Not any more.

“Veteran anti-nuclear activists, campaigners for animal welfare or against electrosmog—in their alarm they had all turned to Greenpeace because of the chemtrails, which are visible everywhere in the skies above Basel. But a painful experience awaited all of them. They were palmed off with the same unsatisfactory answers that we have by now grown tired of hearing. The consequence drawn by these elderly, well-to-do activists from Greenpeace’s lack of interest was the immediate cancellation of membership of many years, the withdrawal of legacies, and the withholding of payments to Greenpeace until further notice.”

As Brian Holmes notes on his website, www.holmestead.ca, the October 2004 issue #131 of the Raum + Zeit contained many pages of letters from readers responding positively to Stetter’s first article in issue #127. “Many of these letters are illustrated with color photographs supplied by the readers themselves.”

Former six-year a board member of Greenpeace Germany, Monika Griefahn chaired the Committee for Culture and Media of the Federal German Parliament when she replied to a letter from two chemtrails dissenters in July 2004, stating, “I am in basic agreement with your concerns. Instead of making a concerted and determined effort to reduce greenhouse gas emissions throughout the world, experiments of various kinds are being carried out in the earth’s atmosphere in order to cure the symptoms.”

GERMAN PARLIMENTARTIAN “ADMITS” CHEMTRAILS

Former six-year a board member of Greenpeace Germany, Monika Griefahn chaired the Committee for Culture and Media of the Federal German Parliament when she replied to a letter from two chemtrails dissenters in July 2004, stating, “I am in basic agreement with your concerns. Instead of making a concerted and determined effort to reduce greenhouse gas emissions throughout the world, experiments of various kinds are being carried out in the earth’s atmosphere in order to cure the symptoms.”

After assuring her correspondents, “I share your concern over the use of aluminium or barium compounds which have a considerable toxic potential,” the parliamentarian went on to say, “however, so far as I am aware the extent of their use is so far minimal.”

“At last!” Stetter announced in the German science magazine. “There we have it. In the skies of Germany, so Social Democratic member of Parliament Monika Griefahn tells us, aluminium and barium compounds are being spread just as tens of thousands of concerned citizens have observed, documented and bitterly deplored.”

Thanking the Honorable Griefahn her for her courage, Stetter suggested, “Maybe one day statues of politicians like Monika Griefahn or the equally plucky US Congressman Dennis Kucinich will adorn in marble splendor the squares of newly verdant German or American cities.”

That would be nice.

But the public outcry in Europe will have to spread to North America if we are to stop this massive, illegal and continuing air and atmospheric pollution."

__________________
I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

Yes the air force has some planes used for weather modification. What they don't say is there are only 4 planes (I think, could be wrong about the exact number but its not many). These are C-130s and are in no way secret. The web page of that wing proudly advertises them. It is mainly a research thing as weather modification is limited in scope. A C-130 by the way is a 4 engine prop plane. Not a jet as the Chemtrail believers say are doing the spraying and not nearly as big. They just can't seem to grasp that sometimes contrails persist.

__________________
"Eternal vigilance is the price of supremacy"
------------Mark Twain

"Women are like Voltron. The more you can hook up, the better it gets."

It's about "cloud seeding," usually done for hail supression. North Dakota has been doing this for decades with good results. Other western states have also started programs.

http://www.theorator.com/bills109/hr2995.html
http://www.swc.state.nd.us/arb/ndcmp.html
http://www.naiwmc.org/index.html

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Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out. ---Cardinal Wolsey (1475-1530)

All this woo woo and no mention of RCH's Enterprise Mission?

Well the great man can confirm that the Chemtrails are real and have been used by authorities to control global warming since the 1997 recommendation of Edward Teller.

However Teller is completely wrong if he thinks this is right way to stop global warming because the extra energy is not coming from the Sun but is occurring as a result of...

HYPERDIMENSIONAL PHYSICS!

Towards the bottom of the page

http://www.enterprisemission.com/warming.htm

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But wait... There's more!

GREAT MAN!!

Thanks,you just made my day. =D> =D>


I hope it spells i-r-o-n-y?

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I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

I COULDN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THE REQUEST FOR WANTING PEOPLE TO DEBUNK CHEMTRAIL SPRAYING. THE MILITARY HAS BEEN SPRAYING OUR SKIES FOR OVER 6 YEARS. IT'S A CRIME AGAINST ALL PEOPLE. MANY PEOPLE ARE DYING FROM IT, AND OTHERS ARE MADE SO ILL, THAT THEY CAN NOT FUNCTION.
I WISH I COULD DEBUNK THE AERIAL SPRAYING OPERATION, BUT I WOULD BE LIVING IN DENIAL IF I DID.
CHECK OUT:
www.carnicom.com
www.weatherwars.info
THOSE SITES ARE A GOOD PLACE TO START...
The BoiseSkyWatcher

Oh brother...this poster won't last long here

Pete

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PJE

There's so much I don't know about astrophysics. I wish I had read that book by that wheelchair guy.