Help for Education Forum moon hoax threads

[Kiwi]

I'm not keen to register at the Education Forum to make just one post, but perhaps someone from here who is registered could post the following, and others could use this thread to post any more useful information.

By the way, my congratulations to those who have posted the wonderful debunkings of Jack White's "photo analysis." A big job, and excellent work.

Anyway, back to the topic:

On page five of the "Apollo 11 Moon Photo Hoax Evidence" thread:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/in...2632&st=60
Bill Dines asks why there are few photos of Apollo astronauts with their visors up and faces visible.

High-resolution versions of AS11-40-5875 show Buzz Aldrin's face.

On the Spacecraft Films' Apollo 17 DVD disk 4, EVA 2, Station 4, at 17:13 and 17:18-26, as Gene Cernan hammers the core tube into the orange soil at Shorty Crater there are two clear views of Jack Schmitt's face. He can be heard and seen talking at the same time. Along with all the other footage, it is fairly good evidence that he was indeed on the moon.

[JayUtah]

You could ask why there are so few photographs of deep-sea divers with their helmets open and their faces visible.

[Bob B.]

Originally Posted by Kiwi

Bill Dines asks why ...

Does anyone know anything about this Bill Dines guy? It seems Bill has been following Jack around for at least the last three years. Is he just a Jack White groupie?

[jrkeller]

The answer is the sun is significant brighter on the Moon than here on Earth. About 25 to 40% brighter than a cloudless day due to atmospheric absorption. The percentage depends on time of the year.

Here's a nice link to the helmet construction.

[SpitfireIX]

Originally Posted by Bob B.

Does anyone know anything about this Bill Dines guy? It seems Bill has been following Jack around for at least the last three years. Is he just a Jack White groupie?

Or maybe a sock puppet?

[Obviousman]

No, Bill is actually a rare commodity. A HB who will look at facts and accept reality.

He also delves into the JFK arena, and it's there he developed his respect for Jack. Bill, like many others, realises that Jack is suffering the onset of dementia or similar. He knows his Apollo work is seriously flawed (to put it mildly) but asks people to "go easy on Jack" because of Jack's age.

I've got time for Bill. He'll listen to explanations, ask intelligent questions, and when something is proved he'll accept that proof. He still might harbour a belief that the Apollo programme was faked, but he wants to find genuine evidence for that belief.

[Kiwi]

Oops, didn't do enough homework. ops:

Although we can see Jack's mouth open and shut (see opening post), it's actually Gene doing the talking. However, there are more glimpses of Jack's face and there is another opportunity to see and hear him talking. He had his gold visor up most of the time due to it being scratched.

Apollo 17 EVA-3 Station 6 - DVD 4 - 7:29
Jack Schmitt is taking a pan in the background. His face is visible.
165:00:35 Parker: Yeah. Gene, if it's easy enough to take it off, why don't you take it off the Rover; and we'll try and level it in the stuff (the soil).
[Gene moves to the rear of the Rover, uncovering Jack who is well up slope, taking the pan. In order to aim the camera for each exposure in the series, Jack bends his knees, his feet behind him, bounces up onto his toes, and arches his back.]
165:00:45 Schmitt: (Responding to Bob's suggestion about putting the TGE on the ground) Aw, come on. (Guffaws, wondering if they are serious)
165:00:47 Cernan: I'm not sure there's any place to put it on the ground level.
165:00:53 Schmitt: No, you have to dig a place.
[Jack's visor is up and his face is clearly visible. Fendell zooms in on him. His feet are hidden by the near rim of the crater in which he is standing.]

At 165:01:11 Jack can be seen saying, "You'd better stomp off a good place."


There is a Hasselblad photo with Jack's face showing:
AS17-146-22296, taken at 165:57:10, Station 6. Jack is on the downslope side of the Rover with his visor up.

Apollo 17 EVA-3 Station 6 - DVD 4 - 1:05:05
Close-up of Jack Schmitt at the Rover, his face visible.

165:58:15 Schmitt: I'm not sure I can get back on here.
[The Rover is rolled about 20 degrees - with Jack's side down.]
165:58:18 Cernan: Well, let me give you a hand.
165:58:20 Schmitt: We need any a...We don't need any...
165:58:22 Cernan: No.
[As noted previously, Jack's gold visor is up. His helmet remains facing the TV camera through all of this, but he turns his head about 60 degrees to look downhill to the south.]
Jack's face can be seen until the following:
165:58:37 Schmitt: ...I'll carry the Rover sampler, just in case.


You could ask why there are so few photographs of deep-sea divers with their helmets open and their faces visible.
Good one, Jay!

[Donnie B.]

My understanding is that the Sun isn't significantly brighter on the Moon in the visible part of the spectrum, since there's little absorption by the Earth's atmosphere at those wavelengths (just some scattering, which creates our nice blue sky but doesn't reduce the overall intensity by very much).

The real reason for the gold visors was to attenuate the ultraviolet, which is harmful to the eyes (promptly) and skin (more slowly). We get only a fraction of the Sun's UV radiation at sea level on Earth, thanks to the atmosphere -- water vapor is a major absorber of UV (ask any snorkeler). On the Moon, of course, you're exposed to the full blast.

Of course, the visors also reduced the visible light intensity, making for more comfortable vision, much like wearing a pair of Foster Grants on a sunny day on the beach at Cancun.

Maybe I should make that my sig line... Surf Luna! 8) (Cue the Dick Dale music...)

[SpitfireIX]

Originally Posted by Obviousman

No, Bill is actually a rare commodity. A HB who will look at facts and accept reality.

In that case, he probably won't be an HB much longer.

He also delves into the JFK arena, and it's there he developed his respect for Jack. Bill, like many others, realises that Jack is suffering the onset of dementia or similar. He knows his Apollo work is seriously flawed (to put it mildly) but asks people to "go easy on Jack" because of Jack's age.

Have him look at http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm for a thorough refutation of a lot of JFK-assassination misinformation and nonsense.

I've got time for Bill. He'll listen to explanations, ask intelligent questions, and when something is proved he'll accept that proof. He still might harbour a belief that the Apollo programme was faked, but he wants to find genuine evidence for that belief.

Just keep talking to him--with any luck, you'll be able to turn him away from The Dark Side.

edited for quoting error

[Bob B.]

Originally Posted by Obviousman

No, Bill is actually a rare commodity. A HB who will look at facts and accept reality.

He also delves into the JFK arena, and it's there he developed his respect for Jack. Bill, like many others, realises that Jack is suffering the onset of dementia or similar. He knows his Apollo work is seriously flawed (to put it mildly) but asks people to "go easy on Jack" because of Jack's age.

I've got time for Bill. He'll listen to explanations, ask intelligent questions, and when something is proved he'll accept that proof. He still might harbour a belief that the Apollo programme was faked, but he wants to find genuine evidence for that belief.

I first encountered Bill back in April 2002 when he was posting stuff about the moon hoax at the JFKResearch forum. At the time I thought he seemed fairly reasonable, but we didn't get very far in the discussions before I got booted from the forum for disagreeing with Jack.

I've only seen Bill's name a couple times since then, but I find it strange he is still uncertain about Apollo after three years. This seems like more than enough time to sort things out and pick a side. I wonder if he really accepts reality as easily he first appears to.