Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > Space and Astronomy > Conspiracy Theories
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 08:55 AM
Debunkus_Bartus Debunkus_Bartus is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1
Default Bartus Sibrelus has re-designed his website and added stuff

Check it out:

http://www.moonmovie.com
(Via his new intro)

http://www.moonmovie.com/moonmovie/default.asp
(Skipping the intro)

... where he posts this tirade:

"Apollo Moon Landings Are Pure Fantasy

To be clear, let's get straight what NASA is claiming: While in the last 30 years absolutely no country claims to have put any man or animal more than 400 miles from the Earth, the Saturn V rocket, between 1969 and 1972, took men to the moon which is 240,000 miles away. Averaging over 3000 miles per hour, three days later they supposedly got into lunar orbit. Then, part of the craft, containing two of the three astronauts, descended, in a vacuum and one-sixth Earth gravity, down to the lunar surface. They collected moon rocks and drove around in a moon buggy in the moon's 250 degree environment and then got back into the craft. Then, the top part of the craft popped up off the surface of the moon, went up 60 miles to dock with the third man in the command module, and then they flew back another 240,000 miles to Earth.

(It's only slightly less likely that on Christmas Eve, Santa Claus gets a team of reindeer together, flies down from the North Pole, slides down your chimney, and leaves presents under your Christmas tree.)

WE GUARANTEE THAT OUR VIDEOS WILL PROVE THE ABSURDITY OF NASA'S CLAIMS OR YOUR MONEY BACK. "


So, that means that all BABBsters with Sibrel´s videos can get their money back then ???

He also has added this FAQ:

http://216.26.168.193/moonmovie/default.asp?ID=8

"Q: What about all of the people refuting your accusations point by point?

A: If they really went to the moon, then anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. Why then are there so many Web sites, which took thousands of hours to construct, in existence to refute the rantings of morons?

"The likelihood of one individual being right increases in direct proportion to
the intensity to which others are trying to prove him wrong." - - Harry Segall "
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 09:16 AM
ZaphodBeeblebrox's Avatar
ZaphodBeeblebrox ZaphodBeeblebrox is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Henniker, New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 4,598
Send a message via AIM to ZaphodBeeblebrox Send a message via Yahoo to ZaphodBeeblebrox
Default

I HATE to Give him a Swelled Head ...

But, a Lot of the Reason, is Because, he's Dangerous!
__________________
If you Ignore YOUR Rights, they Will go away.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 10:43 AM
Maksutov's Avatar
Maksutov Maksutov is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fifth corner of the Earth
Posts: 16,731
Default Re: Bartus Sibrelus has re-designed his website and added st

Dangerous, Schmangerous.

His Sales are Probably down And He has Decided to Take Steps to Try to Draw Attention to His site (just as some do with their typing).

Brat's Efforts remain Pathetic and Reek Of desperation.

the Only thing Dangerous in Brat's World is BUZZ ALDRIN!
__________________
A person's name, or a mark representing it, as signed personally or by deputy, as in subscribing a letter or other document.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 11:38 AM
The Shade The Shade is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 348
Default Re: Bartus Sibrelus has re-designed his website and added st

Quote:
To be clear, let's get straight what NASA is claiming: While in the last 30 years absolutely no country claims to have put any man or animal more than 400 miles from the Earth, the Saturn V rocket, between 1969 and 1972, took men to the moon which is 240,000 miles away. Averaging over 3000 miles per hour, three days later they supposedly got into lunar orbit. Then, part of the craft, containing two of the three astronauts, descended, in a vacuum and one-sixth Earth gravity, down to the lunar surface. They collected moon rocks and drove around in a moon buggy in the moon's 250 degree environment and then got back into the craft. Then, the top part of the craft popped up off the surface of the moon, went up 60 miles to dock with the third man in the command module, and then they flew back another 240,000 miles to Earth.
Wow, that's the best reader's digest version of the moon landings I've ever read. Now, if only it were more positive.

Quote:
(It's only slightly less likely that on Christmas Eve, Santa Claus gets a team of reindeer together, flies down from the North Pole, slides down your chimney, and leaves presents under your Christmas tree.)
Now, attacking the moon landings is one thing, but attacking something that brings out the fun and warmth in the eyes of children is going too far. [-(

Quote:
"Q: What about all of the people refuting your accusations point by point?

A: If they really went to the moon, then anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. Why then are there so many Web sites, which took thousands of hours to construct, in existence to refute the rantings of morons?
Since all the HB sites spout the same garbage, you don't need the same number of sites to debunk them. All you need are a few really well constructed sites that address the "claims" point by point and refute them in a clear and precise manner, like this one and this one .

Finally, if BS is resorting to name calling, he must really be getting desperate to gain some new converts.
[/url]
__________________
Isn't the fact that they don't visit us proof that intelligent life is out there?

The Confused Philosopher - RCAF
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 11:53 AM
Obviousman's Avatar
Obviousman Obviousman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 580
Default

Actually, this raises an interesting point.

If I purchase his video and insist that the video did NOT prove"...the absurdity of NASA's claims", and I do not receive my money back, I could (if I were a US resident) take him to court. This would then involve legal proceedings about recognition of whether the US justice system considers the "hoax" claims to be valid or not.

Is this correct?
__________________
"For ignorance to reign, all it takes is for knowledgable people to say nothing"

Lonewulf
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 12:01 PM
Obviousman's Avatar
Obviousman Obviousman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 580
Default

Additionally, he calls anyone who refutes the claims an idiot.

Could this be construed as libel?
__________________
"For ignorance to reign, all it takes is for knowledgable people to say nothing"

Lonewulf
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 12:01 PM
Laguna2's Avatar
Laguna2 Laguna2 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Reiskirchen, Germany
Posts: 2,071
Send a message via ICQ to Laguna2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obviousman
Actually, this raises an interesting point.

If I purchase his video and insist that the video did NOT prove"...the absurdity of NASA's claims", and I do not receive my money back, I could (if I were a US resident) take him to court. This would then involve legal proceedings about recognition of whether the US justice system considers the "hoax" claims to be valid or not.

Is this correct?
I think you could even take him to court as a non US resident.
__________________
"Who does not know anything, must believe everything."
Baroness Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach
1830-1916
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 12:24 PM
ZaphodBeeblebrox's Avatar
ZaphodBeeblebrox ZaphodBeeblebrox is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Henniker, New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 4,598
Send a message via AIM to ZaphodBeeblebrox Send a message via Yahoo to ZaphodBeeblebrox
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obviousman
Additionally, he calls anyone who refutes the claims an idiot.

Could this be construed as libel?
Actually, he's Calling himself, an Idiot; Read it Carefully ...

Sub-Conscious Guilt, or Simply, a Sign That he Is Now, Completely, Off The Deep End?

I KNOW, Where I'm Putting, My Money!
__________________
If you Ignore YOUR Rights, they Will go away.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 01:25 PM
R.A.F.'s Avatar
R.A.F. R.A.F. is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,081
Default

I'm sure that this as been discussed before, but from Bart's FAQ...

Quote:
The fact is, it (A funny thing happened...) cost five hundred thousand dollars to produce over five years.
Five hundred thousand dollars???

"Stock footage" must have gotten very expensive in the last few years.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 01:28 PM
Bob B.'s Avatar
Bob B. Bob B. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 2,090
Default

Quote:
While in the last 30 years absolutely no country claims to have put any man or animal more than 400 miles from the Earth
This is incorrect. In September 1968 the Soviets sent living specimens on a circumlunar flight and returned them to Earth. The mission was called Zond 5 and included a biological payload of turtles, wine flies, meal worms, plants, seeds, bacteria, and other living matter.

Edited to add:
Never mind, I failed to do my math. #-o
2005 - 1968 = 37 years
__________________
Webmaster, Rocket & Space Technology
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 01:30 PM
Nicolas's Avatar
Nicolas Nicolas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belgium
Posts: 11,473
Default

1968 is not within the last 30 years though.
__________________
To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 01:38 PM
Bob B.'s Avatar
Bob B. Bob B. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 2,090
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas
1968 is not within the last 30 years though.
Oops #-o

Yes, I didn't read close enough. I believe on the previous version of his Web page he simply said that no one, other than NASA's, had *ever* claimed to send living specimens to the Moon. I see he has now revised his statement to exclude Zond 5.

edit spelling
__________________
Webmaster, Rocket & Space Technology
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 01:41 PM
NEOWatcher's Avatar
NEOWatcher NEOWatcher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: the E(e)rie coast
Posts: 7,576
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.A.F.
I'm sure that this as been discussed before, but from Bart's FAQ...

Quote:
The fact is, it (A funny thing happened...) cost five hundred thousand dollars to produce over five years.
Five hundred thousand dollars???

"Stock footage" must have gotten very expensive in the last few years.
Understanable to me. You'd have to pay the cameraman 100K per year just to follow him around. :P
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 02:06 PM
AGN Fuel's Avatar
AGN Fuel AGN Fuel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: The beautiful Central Coast, NSW
Posts: 2,279
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.A.F.
Quote:
The fact is, it (A funny thing happened...) cost five hundred thousand dollars to produce over five years.
Five hundred thousand dollars???

"Stock footage" must have gotten very expensive in the last few years.
Nah, it's just that since he was laid out so easily by an older, shorter, lighter man, his insurers have re-assessed his risk to them and quintupled their premiums...
__________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 04:00 PM
jrkeller's Avatar
jrkeller jrkeller is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Houston near the Johnson Space Center
Posts: 2,678
Default

In the Book a Lecture and Screening section we have

Quote:
Q: What are examples of the scientific and political aspects of the moon hoax that Mr. Sibrel will discuss?
A: Scientific: It is widely agreed that without climate control, the temperature of a spacecraft on the surface of the moon would rise to 250°F. Some Apollo missions claim to have spent 70 hours on the surface of the moon. How did they reject all that heat? Alan Bean’s answer: batteries.
If BS would have went here he would have found the answer FOR FREE

If you go to the second page of this document, you'll find that the original price of this report was 3.00.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 04:15 PM
Mr Gorsky's Avatar
Mr Gorsky Mr Gorsky is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hull, England
Posts: 136
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas
1968 is not within the last 30 years though.
That's a damn shame really. Being born in 1968, it was kind of cool to think I was still under 30.

Oh well ... 8)
__________________
Dave

Anyone seen my marbles? Anyone ... ?
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 04:21 PM
Maksutov's Avatar
Maksutov Maksutov is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fifth corner of the Earth
Posts: 16,731
Default Re: Bartus Sibrelus has re-designed his website and added st

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Gorsky
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas
1968 is not within the last 30 years though.
That's a damn shame really. Being born in 1968, it was kind of cool to think I was still under 30.

Oh well ... 8)
So, you were only one year old (or so) when your (probably younger) wife told you that? You should be ashamed already, you cradle robber! 8)
__________________
A person's name, or a mark representing it, as signed personally or by deputy, as in subscribing a letter or other document.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 06:09 PM
JayUtah's Avatar
JayUtah JayUtah is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,981
Default Re: Bartus Sibrelus has re-designed his website and added st

"Apollo Moon Landings Are Pure Fantasy...

As usual, nothing more than an expression of disbelief. No proof, no evidence, no argument. And we have to pay Bart Sibrel $30 to hear him say he doesn't believe in the moon landings?

WE GUARANTEE THAT OUR VIDEOS WILL PROVE THE ABSURDITY OF NASA'S CLAIMS OR YOUR MONEY BACK. "

I say we put this to the test. I've always believed that we should hit conspiracy theorists where they're most sensitive: the pocketbook.

If they really went to the moon, then anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

Well, yes and no. Bart Sibrel displays an appalling ignorance of the scientific and historical issues surrounding Apollo. Whether that qualifies him as an idiot is a matter of personal opinion. However, it is not true that only idiocy explains the behavior of Sibrel and others. If we really went to the moon, then someone who says otherwise might also be a clever liar. Sibrel discounts the possibility that he is knowingly misleading people.

Why then are there so many Web sites, which took thousands of hours to construct, in existence to refute the rantings of morons?

And this statement is predicated on the previous (false) statement. If we discount that conspiracism is a matter of idiocy and consider instead that it derives from dishonesty, then there is considerable opposition to Sibrel and others precisely because fraud engenders widespread dislike.

"The likelihood of one individual being right increases in direct proportion to the intensity to which others are trying to prove him wrong." - - Harry Segall "

According to that argument, Hitler was right. After all, he was intensely opposed.
__________________
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams
Clavius Moon Base
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 23-June-2005, 06:10 PM
Anla'Shok Anla'Shok is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: wherever I go, that's were I am
Posts: 143
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.A.F.
Quote:
The fact is, it (A funny thing happened...) cost five hundred t